Can Improvement Be Enough?
Theresa Hubbard and Walker Bird
What happens when perfectionism stands in the way of progress? In this heartfelt episode, Walker opens up about the pressure he’s feeling under a looming deadline and how perfectionism is getting in the way of completion. Together, Theresa and Walker explore personal empowerment—not as a performance, but as a process of returning to ourselves.
What You’ll Learn
→ Why perfectionism often disguises itself as care or responsibility
→ How to ground yourself when you're overwhelmed or in a spiral
→ What it really means to be kind to yourself in moments of pressure
This conversation is a powerful reminder that improvement can be enough—and that sometimes the most empowering thing we can do is simply come back to ourselves.
If this episode spoke to you, we invite you to take the 10 Essential Skills to Build Stronger and Healthier Relationships course. It’s self-paced, practical, and filled with reflection tools to help you heal, reconnect, and grow stronger—within yourself and in every relationship you care about.
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Episode Chapters
00:00 – What Growth Really Looks Like
00:09 – When Perfectionism Kicks In
01:44 – Pressure, Fear, and Timelines
03:49 – Grounding in the Middle of It
04:55 – Why the Words Feel So Hard
06:41 – Rethinking How Our Brains Work
08:47 – What’s Perfectionism Really About?
11:26 – Self-Kindness as Empowerment
16:01 – Can Improvement Be Enough?
24:01 – Love, Humor, and Moving Forward
[perfectionism, personal empowerment, self-kindness, grounding techniques, emotional regulation, nervous system support, trauma-informed healing, self-compassion, inner child work, high performer stress, healing through awareness]
Episode Transcript
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:00]:
Right. As we say, growth is less frequent, it doesn't last as long, and it's less intense.
Walker Bird [00:00:08]:
Exactly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:09]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:00:09]:
Yeah. Because to say all gone would be just perfectionism would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most sublime form of self abuse.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:21]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:00:22]:
Perfectionism.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:23]:
Right. Can. Can improvement be enough?
Walker Bird [00:00:28]:
Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's easy as we're. I mean, as we're saying it, I'm inside. There's all these things that voices that are going on, which is, you know, 30 years. Really? 30 years, and, you know, we're still doing this.
Walker Bird [00:00:46]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:15]:
Well, hello.
Walker Bird [00:01:16]:
Hello.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:17]:
How are you?
Walker Bird [00:01:18]:
Stressed.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:01:20]:
Yes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:20]:
Yeah, tell me more.
Walker Bird [00:01:22]:
I got a big project due and have gotten an extension on it, and I'm still pushing time even though I've been working overtime hours to get there. So just a lot of pressure to pull through for the client.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:38]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:01:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:41]:
So what do you feel like gets in the way?
Walker Bird [00:01:44]:
Perfectionism?
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:46]:
Yeah, for sure. Say more.
Walker Bird [00:01:51]:
You know, I don't want to lose the case, and it's one of those motions that it's like the judge can throw the whole case out if they think you don't have enough facts to support the claims that you're making. And so, you know, I've got a client that's been treated extremely poorly by others, and there's just some difficult legal issues associated with whether I can make a claim, you know, and so I just have this pressure to do it perfectly, which stands in the way of me getting it done. Timely.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:26]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:02:27]:
My perfectionism piece kicks in and my fear of letting him down so not being enough. So, yeah, I thought we'd talk about personal empowerment. What do you do when you're in that space?
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:47]:
Okay. Okay. So what are you doing as your perfectionism comes up and that desire to. I. Yeah. Making sure we're all good.
Walker Bird [00:02:59]:
No, I was checking the time because I have 28 hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:02]:
Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. 28 hours. Okay. So. So in the midst of this, what are you doing to bring yourself back to center so you can reach the deadline?
Walker Bird [00:03:21]:
Well, I'm working on it as we speak. It's one of the reasons I thought it would be a good time to talk about it since we needed to get an episode done for viewers and. But also that it could benefit me just in being able to be. Be in space with you. You know, I think we ground each other. That's one of the things that's important is to not just, you know, get so caught up in the fear or the emotion that you're not present.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:49]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:03:49]:
Because I think hours can go by in that state. And that's probably part of what's been happening to me over the last, you know, 10 days since we've been back from our trip, trying to get this knocked out, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:02]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:04]:
Maybe we should have the conversation last week. So, you know, I'm trying to use the grounding techniques that we've talked about. I mean, one is just being in this sort of a conversation with you where I'm able to focus on the present.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:20]:
Others are, you know, taking a walk around the pond and actually sensing, you know, the breeze on my hands or my neck or my head and touching the trees when I go by. Those sorts of things. You know, you always talk about walking in the grass barefoot. Yeah, I'm not doing that, but maybe I should. Although I don't have a lot of time to go do that now. So anyway, I mean, I know what I want to say. It's just not, you know, I get started and write it and then I rewrite it and then it just. If I could just say it versus I'm.
Walker Bird [00:04:55]:
It has to be perfect and I'm typing it out, I'd be done, I think.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:00]:
Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:00]:
It's not that complicated. But translating it into written word all of a sudden is like this perfectionist piece kicks in and then I need to add all these additional details, etc, and that's what I'm going through. So.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:16]:
Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:17]:
So I'm curious what's going on for 30 years?
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:19]:
So do you think I'm just throwing it out there? Do you think that it would be helpful if you and I sat down and talked about a situation like this and you recorded it and then transcribed it and then wrote from there? Maybe that would be interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:39]:
Because we definitely use different parts of our brain when we're speaking.
Walker Bird [00:05:44]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:45]:
Versus writing versus typing. I mean, they're not all the same.
Walker Bird [00:05:48]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:49]:
Anyway, something for us to try.
Walker Bird [00:05:51]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:52]:
Yeah. Always. Always trying to learn more about the way our brain works and the habits that we've created. We were actually just talking about this at lunch today. One of the clinicians in our office just realized that their child's brain works differently than they assumed that it did. And so they are now, as they're starting college in the fall, the child is figuring out all these other ways to help that they just didn't ever even think about before. You know, they just thought she was lazy. And then they're like, oh, this is like a limbic system.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:41]:
ADHD. And so we have materials in our office by Daniel. Amen. And the different types of ADD or ADHD. And most people don't talk about it, and we're not talking about that today, but it was just, you know, she got the binder that I've probably had for 15 years, and it was going through it, and it was like, oh, I didn't even understand who my child was and what they needed in regards to learning and support. And so for me, connecting this to personal empowerment is, you know, can we just continue to learn about ourselves and experiment with things and see, like, well, maybe that's the thing we've done for 30 years, but our brain would actually work better if we tried something different.
Walker Bird [00:07:30]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:30]:
So that's what came to mind as you were sharing. Right. I mean, we've been in relationship now for how long? And that's not a conversation we've had before.
Walker Bird [00:07:40]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:41]:
So we can give it a try. Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:07:44]:
No, I think it's. It's just really important, you know, you. When you're doing. Going through a process like that. It's just. It's easy for me and I'm guessing others who are. I mean, you know, when we've asked at retreats whoever has issues with perfectionism, every hand in the room goes up, and then everybody's shocked that everybody has that issue, but mine's bigger than everyone else's. I'm sure, you know, when you're in the mix of it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:11]:
Right. Comparative.
Walker Bird [00:08:14]:
Yeah, whatever. One of the things that I'm trying to do is for, you know, to be kind to myself in the process, you know, because it's just so easy to get caught up in that loop of, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not perfect, and I have tons of great, you know, pretty incredible success as a trial lawyer. But it still is there. It just is. And writing projects are just one of those things for me. They've been that way always since law school.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:47]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:08:48]:
And I'm really good, but I'm really slow, so. And it's hard, you know, so you have to. I'm working through all those things, but how do I take care of myself? It's that process and recognizing that I'm doing it. You know, even momently, because. I know. But then I forget and more time passes, you know, But I do. Today I've been catching myself, you know, hey, it's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:15]:
You know, Speaking to yourself kindly.
Walker Bird [00:09:19]:
Yeah, exactly. You know, just take a breath. You've got this. It's okay. Just trying to settle the nervous system down and calm the inner child who wants to run from the room screaming.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:33]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:09:36]:
It's like the trial I described to you. You got to stand in the breach. Yeah. You know, my. And I. I've gotten lots better with it in the last few years, I would say, but here we are.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:09:51]:
And I just, I. I have worked really hard to move away from pushing things up to the deadline, but I'm there right now. And so working through that, shame comes up, you know, when you can't fall victim to shame, because if you're doing that, you're not getting the project done. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:10]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:10:11]:
So self care, self empowerment. How do I draw power out of this situation? So what do you think we should do? We meaning people.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:23]:
Right. I think the sensory piece that you were talking about is so important. You know, getting our body as best we can into the present. And whether that's walking outside barefoot or touching a tree or smelling a smell, that helps us really get back in our body. But the conversation with ourself, I think, is so important. I mean, when I. I think we can get so confused and lost when we're in our perfectionism. And so when I think about what you're sharing and I think about who I know you to be, who I've learned you to be, I think perfectionism can come across as, you know, I don't want to fail.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:26]:
I want to, I don't know, be recognized or admired. But your perfectionism really is about wanting your clients to feel that you understood. You saw them, you fought for them. And so in that, you know, we'll start shaming ourselves, and it's really more self focused. But I think if we could shift our focus back to what this really is about, what are we really trying to accomplish? I wish I could remember where I heard this, but it's. If you didn't care, it'd be different.
Walker Bird [00:12:24]:
It would be different and done right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:28]:
But you do care.
Walker Bird [00:12:30]:
I do.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:30]:
And your perfectionism comes from that care that you have. And so I think we can have perfectionism. Right. But that doesn't mean all the people in the room that raise their hand. Everybody has the same issue in regards to perfectionism. Right. And so are we even Clear about what it's really about for us. I doubt it.
Walker Bird [00:12:52]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:53]:
I don't know that we often dig down into all the levels to figure out what it's about. I mean, I know that ultimately if we dug down into everybody's story, I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable, I'll be abandoned. Right. But I'm talking about the. The reasons that are a little bit higher up. Right, right. And so you being kinder to yourself, you know, in that conversation, like you're saying you're doing today.
Walker Bird [00:13:23]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:26]:
This is why this comes up for me. Would that be helpful?
Walker Bird [00:13:34]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:35]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:13:38]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:40]:
What do you.
Walker Bird [00:13:41]:
Oh, I'm just thinking it through. You know, when the perfectionist piece comes out, then I become like ultra, you know, it's like ultra detail oriented. And now we need every possible fact that would support. And. And I was, as we're sitting here talking about it, thinking at trial, I don't have time to play that game. Jury's sitting right there.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:03]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:14:04]:
Get to the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:05]:
Right. Yes, get to the point.
Walker Bird [00:14:11]:
So, you know, just. I think it's important to empower. You know, we're talking about self empowerment, is being able to take a step back. I mean, I know I'm right in the thick of it, but to. To pause, as we say in so many instances, how important that is. Right, right. And examine.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:31]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:14:32]:
What's our process?
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:34]:
You know, what's happening.
Walker Bird [00:14:35]:
What's happening for me right now. Exactly. All this stuff. I've got to have every fact because that'll convince the judge. You know, blah, blah, blah. When the judge. And if I look at it in this space.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:48]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:48]:
Judge is like, took you 10 pages to say what you could have said in a paragraph, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:57]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:58]:
So. And I can do that when I'm reading somebody else's work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:02]:
Yes.
Walker Bird [00:15:07]:
So I need to keep it in mind yet.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:10]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:15:11]:
And that's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:12]:
Yeah, it is. Okay.
Walker Bird [00:15:14]:
Yeah. So that's what's up.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:21]:
Interesting. Just how. Talking about it. Right. I mean, we haven't even been recording that long. 15 minutes. And you're like, I'm ready.
Walker Bird [00:15:36]:
27 hours and 45 minutes left. Yeah. Not that I'm counting.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:44]:
Not that. Right. Not that you're counting. Yeah. How are you feeling in your body? What do you. If you compare where you were 15 minutes ago to right now, what feels similar, what feels different?
Walker Bird [00:16:01]:
Less. And this is where I carry my anxiety. That's less. And it's still there, but it's less. I feel less panicky. You Know, because when we sat down and we usually talk for an hour.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:14]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:15]:
We've been cutting that back a little bit to 45 minutes and used the 30 minutes and I was thinking more like 10.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:20]:
I'm like, oh, crap.
Walker Bird [00:16:23]:
So just, you know, there's more calm around that and also some hope.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:31]:
You know, like a lightness of hope that hey, you know, if I can just get to the point, you know, and let all that other stuff go, then maybe I can get this done before dawn.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:46]:
With a few hours sleep even, you know, who knows?
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:49]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:50]:
So that is. Those things are improving, you know, rising confidence, a little deeper breathing, you know, because I think we get shallow breath when, you know, we're in that fight or flight.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:09]:
Oh, sure. Piece. Sure.
Walker Bird [00:17:11]:
All that is here. What do you just laughing about? My job, what I've chosen to do for 30 years is like, okay, I wonder why I have health issues. Because I'm like constantly in that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:26]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:17:27]:
State. Not constantly, but frequently.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:31]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:17:31]:
So, but you know, part obviously, the universe wants me to learn this lesson.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:37]:
What lesson?
Walker Bird [00:17:42]:
How to empower myself. How to. To get to the space where I can let that piece go. Sooner.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:53]:
Yeah, yeah, Sooner. Right. As we say, growth is less frequent, it doesn't last as long and it's less intense.
Walker Bird [00:18:05]:
Exactly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:06]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:18:07]:
Yeah. Because to say all gone would be just perfection would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most sublime form of self abuse.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:18]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:18:19]:
Perfectionism.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:21]:
Right. Can. Can improvement be enough?
Walker Bird [00:18:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:28]:
Know.
Walker Bird [00:18:28]:
And it's easy as we're. I mean, as we're saying it, I'm inside. There's all these things that voices that are going on, which is, you know, 30 years. Really. 30 years. And you know, we're still doing this and I know better, but it's still there. You can hear it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:46]:
So anyway, what do you want to say to it right now?
Walker Bird [00:18:49]:
I got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:50]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:18:51]:
I'm getting to the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:54]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:18:55]:
I don't need to do all that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:58]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:01]:
To have done it well, to have fought appropriately for my client, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:09]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:10]:
To be convincing, to get to the truth. Because the truth matters to me. It's my truth.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:19]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:19:19]:
But I search for that as I go through. I mean, we're talking thousands of pages of testimony and documents.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:30]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:19:31]:
So anyway. Yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:41]:
So what do you feel in your body now?
Walker Bird [00:19:47]:
It vacillates, you know, as I talk about it, you know, doing the 30 year thing to myself is cruel. It's hard and it's brings up shame.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:54]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:55]:
Even just saying, acknowledging that that came across my mind. It's not helpful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:01]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:20:03]:
Shame is not the. Is no way to self. To empower yourself. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:08]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:09]:
And it's no way to resolve an existing issue.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:12]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:13]:
When you're in the thick of it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:14]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:15]:
It's useless.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:17]:
Yeah. It's a distraction.
Walker Bird [00:20:18]:
It is. And I think. But the answer is not to spank it, but just to say, you know, know, I hear you, but I've got this. I'm going to get to the point, and I don't need to do all that stuff.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:29]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:20:30]:
I think that's really helpful. Yeah. And, you know, hopefully people can translate it out of the scenario that I'm talking about into whatever their perfectionism piece is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:42]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:43]:
How do we work around that space? Kind. Be kind to yourself. Maybe that's a real solution.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:52]:
Yeah. Be curious with yourself.
Walker Bird [00:20:54]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:55]:
Going back to what's really happening for me right now.
Walker Bird [00:20:58]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:59]:
Knowing that we have to ask ourselves that a thousand times, maybe before we even get an answer.
Walker Bird [00:21:04]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:06]:
We're just trying to train our body and our mind to even know that we're curious to know what the answer is.
Walker Bird [00:21:14]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:17]:
Not very patient in our perfectionism.
Walker Bird [00:21:20]:
We're not. And, you know, I can. There's. You can get into a panic mode. I mean, I feel it, you know, it's There. Wants to come back up. Even right now. It's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:33]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:33]:
I got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:34]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:35]:
I don't have to do all that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:41]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:44]:
Yeah. That doesn't feel like. When I say it, you know, because it is true. It feels pretty good, but it still is like, you know, it's like the tide. It just. So my goal in saying it is to get the tides to calm down, you know, so I could get it done. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:05]:
Yeah. And you will.
Walker Bird [00:22:08]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:08]:
And it'll be great.
Walker Bird [00:22:10]:
Sure. And, you know, with a goal of being finished sooner in the process on the next one, because there's plenty more coming up.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:16]:
I guarantee you there's plenty more coming up.
Walker Bird [00:22:19]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:20]:
And there will be plenty more challenges for everybody who's listening where their shit's.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:26]:
Gonna come up too.
Walker Bird [00:22:28]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:29]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:30]:
How do you. How do you stand in the breach? How do you find yourself in there? Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:37]:
Yeah. I was thinking finding yourself, that's the work. Right. And then as we continue to learn more about ourselves, how do we hold on to ourself when we're in that space?
Walker Bird [00:22:49]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:50]:
How do we come back to ourself? I mean, it really is about knowing who we are. It's hard to come back to ourself if we don't even really know who we are.
Walker Bird [00:23:00]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:00]:
Right. And so doing that initial work of, like, who am I? What is important to me? What do I really want?
Walker Bird [00:23:08]:
Yeah, but if you haven't, you still use the grounding techniques. Discussing the sense, the sensory things.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:17]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:23:18]:
The kindness, self kindness, breathing.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:22]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:22]:
The pause.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:24]:
It's all practice.
Walker Bird [00:23:27]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:27]:
Yeah. If you were going to share with everyone something that you wish for them around their perfectionism and truly being kind and helpful and supportive to themselves, what would it be?
Walker Bird [00:24:01]:
Love yourself like your dog loves you and you will do. Well. First thing that came to mind. Well, and it's true.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:12]:
That was gonna say that's your true. True. Right.
Walker Bird [00:24:15]:
Oh, I'm still not doing it, but yeah, it's still helpful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:21]:
Yeah. And if they don't have a dog.
Walker Bird [00:24:27]:
The person from your past or present that loves you the most.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:34]:
That you feel sees you the most.
Walker Bird [00:24:37]:
Yeah, I think so. It's kind.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:41]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Those dogs.
Walker Bird [00:24:48]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:49]:
I've been thinking recently. I mean, we wouldn't bring the dogs into the studio because we'd be covered in hair, but we should. We should bring. We should put them in some of our reels. I just. Because they're so hysterical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are funny, funny dogs.
Walker Bird [00:25:09]:
Yep.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:10]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:25:10]:
Giant huskies.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:11]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:25:12]:
Well, a giant husky and his smaller sister.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:15]:
Right. Who's still big for a husky, but. Yeah. But yes, they are. Clark is enormous.
Walker Bird [00:25:21]:
What is he, babe?
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:23]:
110.
Walker Bird [00:25:24]:
£110? Huge. And he's all muscle.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think she's 80.
Walker Bird [00:25:31]:
She's big. Yeah, she's big, too. And she's all. They're just both all muscle and they got, you know that they look. Yeah, but they're sweet.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:39]:
They are.
Walker Bird [00:25:40]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:40]:
We'll have to get them in some reels. I think people would enjoy seeing them. Yes. Those sweet animals.
Walker Bird [00:25:48]:
I think, babe, ultimately, learning to love ourselves and that there's so many points along that spectrum. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:56]:
Oh.
Walker Bird [00:25:57]:
That we could make about elements of. Of that. That, you know, I'm still learning and everybody out there is, but really, I think it comes back to that because the most comforting thing that we've said today is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:08]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:09]:
You know, almost like, hey, give myself a hug.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:14]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:26:15]:
You know, it's okay. You got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:18]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:18]:
Get the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:19]:
Right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. If we could put ourselves often in the shoes of the person that we'll be reading it, we probably would understand better. Right. I mean, I'm not saying we can't lie to ourselves in there, too, but. Yes. As A judge reads probably an incredible amount of documents every day.
Walker Bird [00:26:46]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:47]:
Getting to the point would probably be appreciated.
Walker Bird [00:26:51]:
Guarantee.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:56]:
I know, I like that. Yeah, yeah. And then if I want the other stuff, I can go figure that out.
Walker Bird [00:27:06]:
Right?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:07]:
Yeah, yeah, No, I hear you. Fascinating perspective. Anything else, babe?
Walker Bird [00:27:16]:
I think that'll do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:18]:
Yeah. You're ready.
Walker Bird [00:27:19]:
27 and a half hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:26]:
You are a nut.
Walker Bird [00:27:28]:
How about you? Any last tips or points or most important thing you could share with people who might be struggling with their own perfectionism piece?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:45]:
What comes to mind for me when I think about perfectionism is are we even aware of the story that we're carrying around it? And to me, perfectionism is a survival response. You know, if I don't do this this way, then, and I know this sounds extreme, but as a child, it was life or death. Right, right. And so we can be dismissive of it being that severe for us as an adult, but I think it feels that real often.
Walker Bird [00:28:18]:
Well, there wouldn't be panic in a 57 year old guy with lots of experience.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:28:25]:
Without that being down inside. Right. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:29]:
Right. So why do I think if I don't do this perfectly, I will die? Yeah. Just to have that level of inquiry. And again, I know it seems extreme, but when I sit with people every day, it's not really. Yeah. So being curious with yourself, I think never stop being curious with yourself. Yeah. So as we wrap it up, so you can get back to your brief, thanks for taking the time to come and have the conversation.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:10]:
I hope that it was helpful in some way for you to find what you need to get through the next 27 and a half hours.
Walker Bird [00:29:18]:
Yeah, I think so.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:21]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:29:21]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:23]:
And then I think, what else have we not talked about? Oh, we're going to continue to remind people to, if they subscribe, to hit the notification bell on YouTube, like subscribe.
Walker Bird [00:29:38]:
And then hit the notification bell. Because the subscribe button disappears and the notification bell pops up, takes its place.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:43]:
Yeah. You have to hit it twice. Right. I know.
Walker Bird [00:29:46]:
And then if you're like me and you didn't do social media for, for most of your life, it's like, oh, right, right. I wonder why I never heard from those people again. Well, hit the notification bell and you will.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:57]:
Yeah, yeah. And just that we continue to make progress on the parenting series and that we are. I mean, I think as of right now, we're going to release them all at the same time as like a playlist on YouTube so that people can go watch them because since they'll each be like our 10 or 15 minute topic. Um, so we are still working on that. I'm sorry it's taken us so long. Yeah, but it is. It's been a lot. The first six months of the year for us and you know, exciting times.
Walker Bird [00:30:28]:
Just busy.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:28]:
Yeah, just busy and. Yeah. And just continuing to encourage people to put effort into healthy relationship. It's worth it.
Walker Bird [00:30:42]:
I love you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:43]:
I love you too. Good luck tonight.
Walker Bird [00:30:46]:
Thanks.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:48]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.
Right. As we say, growth is less frequent, it doesn't last as long, and it's less intense.
Walker Bird [00:00:08]:
Exactly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:09]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:00:09]:
Yeah. Because to say all gone would be just perfectionism would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most sublime form of self abuse.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:21]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:00:22]:
Perfectionism.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:23]:
Right. Can. Can improvement be enough?
Walker Bird [00:00:28]:
Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's easy as we're. I mean, as we're saying it, I'm inside. There's all these things that voices that are going on, which is, you know, 30 years. Really? 30 years, and, you know, we're still doing this.
Walker Bird [00:00:46]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:15]:
Well, hello.
Walker Bird [00:01:16]:
Hello.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:17]:
How are you?
Walker Bird [00:01:18]:
Stressed.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:01:20]:
Yes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:20]:
Yeah, tell me more.
Walker Bird [00:01:22]:
I got a big project due and have gotten an extension on it, and I'm still pushing time even though I've been working overtime hours to get there. So just a lot of pressure to pull through for the client.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:38]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:01:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:41]:
So what do you feel like gets in the way?
Walker Bird [00:01:44]:
Perfectionism?
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:46]:
Yeah, for sure. Say more.
Walker Bird [00:01:51]:
You know, I don't want to lose the case, and it's one of those motions that it's like the judge can throw the whole case out if they think you don't have enough facts to support the claims that you're making. And so, you know, I've got a client that's been treated extremely poorly by others, and there's just some difficult legal issues associated with whether I can make a claim, you know, and so I just have this pressure to do it perfectly, which stands in the way of me getting it done. Timely.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:26]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:02:27]:
My perfectionism piece kicks in and my fear of letting him down so not being enough. So, yeah, I thought we'd talk about personal empowerment. What do you do when you're in that space?
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:47]:
Okay. Okay. So what are you doing as your perfectionism comes up and that desire to. I. Yeah. Making sure we're all good.
Walker Bird [00:02:59]:
No, I was checking the time because I have 28 hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:02]:
Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. 28 hours. Okay. So. So in the midst of this, what are you doing to bring yourself back to center so you can reach the deadline?
Walker Bird [00:03:21]:
Well, I'm working on it as we speak. It's one of the reasons I thought it would be a good time to talk about it since we needed to get an episode done for viewers and. But also that it could benefit me just in being able to be. Be in space with you. You know, I think we ground each other. That's one of the things that's important is to not just, you know, get so caught up in the fear or the emotion that you're not present.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:49]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:03:49]:
Because I think hours can go by in that state. And that's probably part of what's been happening to me over the last, you know, 10 days since we've been back from our trip, trying to get this knocked out, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:02]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:04]:
Maybe we should have the conversation last week. So, you know, I'm trying to use the grounding techniques that we've talked about. I mean, one is just being in this sort of a conversation with you where I'm able to focus on the present.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:20]:
Others are, you know, taking a walk around the pond and actually sensing, you know, the breeze on my hands or my neck or my head and touching the trees when I go by. Those sorts of things. You know, you always talk about walking in the grass barefoot. Yeah, I'm not doing that, but maybe I should. Although I don't have a lot of time to go do that now. So anyway, I mean, I know what I want to say. It's just not, you know, I get started and write it and then I rewrite it and then it just. If I could just say it versus I'm.
Walker Bird [00:04:55]:
It has to be perfect and I'm typing it out, I'd be done, I think.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:00]:
Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:00]:
It's not that complicated. But translating it into written word all of a sudden is like this perfectionist piece kicks in and then I need to add all these additional details, etc, and that's what I'm going through. So.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:16]:
Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:17]:
So I'm curious what's going on for 30 years?
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:19]:
So do you think I'm just throwing it out there? Do you think that it would be helpful if you and I sat down and talked about a situation like this and you recorded it and then transcribed it and then wrote from there? Maybe that would be interesting.
Walker Bird [00:05:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:39]:
Because we definitely use different parts of our brain when we're speaking.
Walker Bird [00:05:44]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:45]:
Versus writing versus typing. I mean, they're not all the same.
Walker Bird [00:05:48]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:49]:
Anyway, something for us to try.
Walker Bird [00:05:51]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:52]:
Yeah. Always. Always trying to learn more about the way our brain works and the habits that we've created. We were actually just talking about this at lunch today. One of the clinicians in our office just realized that their child's brain works differently than they assumed that it did. And so they are now, as they're starting college in the fall, the child is figuring out all these other ways to help that they just didn't ever even think about before. You know, they just thought she was lazy. And then they're like, oh, this is like a limbic system.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:41]:
ADHD. And so we have materials in our office by Daniel. Amen. And the different types of ADD or ADHD. And most people don't talk about it, and we're not talking about that today, but it was just, you know, she got the binder that I've probably had for 15 years, and it was going through it, and it was like, oh, I didn't even understand who my child was and what they needed in regards to learning and support. And so for me, connecting this to personal empowerment is, you know, can we just continue to learn about ourselves and experiment with things and see, like, well, maybe that's the thing we've done for 30 years, but our brain would actually work better if we tried something different.
Walker Bird [00:07:30]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:30]:
So that's what came to mind as you were sharing. Right. I mean, we've been in relationship now for how long? And that's not a conversation we've had before.
Walker Bird [00:07:40]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:41]:
So we can give it a try. Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:07:44]:
No, I think it's. It's just really important, you know, you. When you're doing. Going through a process like that. It's just. It's easy for me and I'm guessing others who are. I mean, you know, when we've asked at retreats whoever has issues with perfectionism, every hand in the room goes up, and then everybody's shocked that everybody has that issue, but mine's bigger than everyone else's. I'm sure, you know, when you're in the mix of it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:11]:
Right. Comparative.
Walker Bird [00:08:14]:
Yeah, whatever. One of the things that I'm trying to do is for, you know, to be kind to myself in the process, you know, because it's just so easy to get caught up in that loop of, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not perfect, and I have tons of great, you know, pretty incredible success as a trial lawyer. But it still is there. It just is. And writing projects are just one of those things for me. They've been that way always since law school.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:47]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:08:48]:
And I'm really good, but I'm really slow, so. And it's hard, you know, so you have to. I'm working through all those things, but how do I take care of myself? It's that process and recognizing that I'm doing it. You know, even momently, because. I know. But then I forget and more time passes, you know, But I do. Today I've been catching myself, you know, hey, it's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:15]:
You know, Speaking to yourself kindly.
Walker Bird [00:09:19]:
Yeah, exactly. You know, just take a breath. You've got this. It's okay. Just trying to settle the nervous system down and calm the inner child who wants to run from the room screaming.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:33]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:09:36]:
It's like the trial I described to you. You got to stand in the breach. Yeah. You know, my. And I. I've gotten lots better with it in the last few years, I would say, but here we are.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:09:51]:
And I just, I. I have worked really hard to move away from pushing things up to the deadline, but I'm there right now. And so working through that, shame comes up, you know, when you can't fall victim to shame, because if you're doing that, you're not getting the project done. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:10]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:10:11]:
So self care, self empowerment. How do I draw power out of this situation? So what do you think we should do? We meaning people.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:23]:
Right. I think the sensory piece that you were talking about is so important. You know, getting our body as best we can into the present. And whether that's walking outside barefoot or touching a tree or smelling a smell, that helps us really get back in our body. But the conversation with ourself, I think, is so important. I mean, when I. I think we can get so confused and lost when we're in our perfectionism. And so when I think about what you're sharing and I think about who I know you to be, who I've learned you to be, I think perfectionism can come across as, you know, I don't want to fail.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:26]:
I want to, I don't know, be recognized or admired. But your perfectionism really is about wanting your clients to feel that you understood. You saw them, you fought for them. And so in that, you know, we'll start shaming ourselves, and it's really more self focused. But I think if we could shift our focus back to what this really is about, what are we really trying to accomplish? I wish I could remember where I heard this, but it's. If you didn't care, it'd be different.
Walker Bird [00:12:24]:
It would be different and done right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:28]:
But you do care.
Walker Bird [00:12:30]:
I do.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:30]:
And your perfectionism comes from that care that you have. And so I think we can have perfectionism. Right. But that doesn't mean all the people in the room that raise their hand. Everybody has the same issue in regards to perfectionism. Right. And so are we even Clear about what it's really about for us. I doubt it.
Walker Bird [00:12:52]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:53]:
I don't know that we often dig down into all the levels to figure out what it's about. I mean, I know that ultimately if we dug down into everybody's story, I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable, I'll be abandoned. Right. But I'm talking about the. The reasons that are a little bit higher up. Right, right. And so you being kinder to yourself, you know, in that conversation, like you're saying you're doing today.
Walker Bird [00:13:23]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:26]:
This is why this comes up for me. Would that be helpful?
Walker Bird [00:13:34]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:35]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:13:38]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:40]:
What do you.
Walker Bird [00:13:41]:
Oh, I'm just thinking it through. You know, when the perfectionist piece comes out, then I become like ultra, you know, it's like ultra detail oriented. And now we need every possible fact that would support. And. And I was, as we're sitting here talking about it, thinking at trial, I don't have time to play that game. Jury's sitting right there.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:03]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:14:04]:
Get to the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:05]:
Right. Yes, get to the point.
Walker Bird [00:14:11]:
So, you know, just. I think it's important to empower. You know, we're talking about self empowerment, is being able to take a step back. I mean, I know I'm right in the thick of it, but to. To pause, as we say in so many instances, how important that is. Right, right. And examine.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:31]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:14:32]:
What's our process?
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:34]:
You know, what's happening.
Walker Bird [00:14:35]:
What's happening for me right now. Exactly. All this stuff. I've got to have every fact because that'll convince the judge. You know, blah, blah, blah. When the judge. And if I look at it in this space.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:48]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:48]:
Judge is like, took you 10 pages to say what you could have said in a paragraph, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:57]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:58]:
So. And I can do that when I'm reading somebody else's work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:02]:
Yes.
Walker Bird [00:15:07]:
So I need to keep it in mind yet.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:10]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:15:11]:
And that's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:12]:
Yeah, it is. Okay.
Walker Bird [00:15:14]:
Yeah. So that's what's up.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:21]:
Interesting. Just how. Talking about it. Right. I mean, we haven't even been recording that long. 15 minutes. And you're like, I'm ready.
Walker Bird [00:15:36]:
27 hours and 45 minutes left. Yeah. Not that I'm counting.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:44]:
Not that. Right. Not that you're counting. Yeah. How are you feeling in your body? What do you. If you compare where you were 15 minutes ago to right now, what feels similar, what feels different?
Walker Bird [00:16:01]:
Less. And this is where I carry my anxiety. That's less. And it's still there, but it's less. I feel less panicky. You Know, because when we sat down and we usually talk for an hour.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:14]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:15]:
We've been cutting that back a little bit to 45 minutes and used the 30 minutes and I was thinking more like 10.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:20]:
I'm like, oh, crap.
Walker Bird [00:16:23]:
So just, you know, there's more calm around that and also some hope.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:31]:
You know, like a lightness of hope that hey, you know, if I can just get to the point, you know, and let all that other stuff go, then maybe I can get this done before dawn.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:46]:
With a few hours sleep even, you know, who knows?
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:49]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:50]:
So that is. Those things are improving, you know, rising confidence, a little deeper breathing, you know, because I think we get shallow breath when, you know, we're in that fight or flight.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:09]:
Oh, sure. Piece. Sure.
Walker Bird [00:17:11]:
All that is here. What do you just laughing about? My job, what I've chosen to do for 30 years is like, okay, I wonder why I have health issues. Because I'm like constantly in that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:26]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:17:27]:
State. Not constantly, but frequently.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:31]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:17:31]:
So, but you know, part obviously, the universe wants me to learn this lesson.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:37]:
What lesson?
Walker Bird [00:17:42]:
How to empower myself. How to. To get to the space where I can let that piece go. Sooner.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:53]:
Yeah, yeah, Sooner. Right. As we say, growth is less frequent, it doesn't last as long and it's less intense.
Walker Bird [00:18:05]:
Exactly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:06]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:18:07]:
Yeah. Because to say all gone would be just perfection would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most sublime form of self abuse.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:18]:
Right, right.
Walker Bird [00:18:19]:
Perfectionism.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:21]:
Right. Can. Can improvement be enough?
Walker Bird [00:18:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:28]:
Know.
Walker Bird [00:18:28]:
And it's easy as we're. I mean, as we're saying it, I'm inside. There's all these things that voices that are going on, which is, you know, 30 years. Really. 30 years. And you know, we're still doing this and I know better, but it's still there. You can hear it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:46]:
So anyway, what do you want to say to it right now?
Walker Bird [00:18:49]:
I got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:50]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:18:51]:
I'm getting to the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:54]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:18:55]:
I don't need to do all that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:58]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:01]:
To have done it well, to have fought appropriately for my client, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:09]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:10]:
To be convincing, to get to the truth. Because the truth matters to me. It's my truth.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:19]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:19:19]:
But I search for that as I go through. I mean, we're talking thousands of pages of testimony and documents.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:30]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:19:31]:
So anyway. Yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:41]:
So what do you feel in your body now?
Walker Bird [00:19:47]:
It vacillates, you know, as I talk about it, you know, doing the 30 year thing to myself is cruel. It's hard and it's brings up shame.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:54]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:55]:
Even just saying, acknowledging that that came across my mind. It's not helpful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:01]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:20:03]:
Shame is not the. Is no way to self. To empower yourself. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:08]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:09]:
And it's no way to resolve an existing issue.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:12]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:13]:
When you're in the thick of it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:14]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:15]:
It's useless.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:17]:
Yeah. It's a distraction.
Walker Bird [00:20:18]:
It is. And I think. But the answer is not to spank it, but just to say, you know, know, I hear you, but I've got this. I'm going to get to the point, and I don't need to do all that stuff.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:29]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:20:30]:
I think that's really helpful. Yeah. And, you know, hopefully people can translate it out of the scenario that I'm talking about into whatever their perfectionism piece is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:42]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:43]:
How do we work around that space? Kind. Be kind to yourself. Maybe that's a real solution.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:52]:
Yeah. Be curious with yourself.
Walker Bird [00:20:54]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:55]:
Going back to what's really happening for me right now.
Walker Bird [00:20:58]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:59]:
Knowing that we have to ask ourselves that a thousand times, maybe before we even get an answer.
Walker Bird [00:21:04]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:06]:
We're just trying to train our body and our mind to even know that we're curious to know what the answer is.
Walker Bird [00:21:14]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:17]:
Not very patient in our perfectionism.
Walker Bird [00:21:20]:
We're not. And, you know, I can. There's. You can get into a panic mode. I mean, I feel it, you know, it's There. Wants to come back up. Even right now. It's okay.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:33]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:33]:
I got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:34]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:35]:
I don't have to do all that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:41]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:44]:
Yeah. That doesn't feel like. When I say it, you know, because it is true. It feels pretty good, but it still is like, you know, it's like the tide. It just. So my goal in saying it is to get the tides to calm down, you know, so I could get it done. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:05]:
Yeah. And you will.
Walker Bird [00:22:08]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:08]:
And it'll be great.
Walker Bird [00:22:10]:
Sure. And, you know, with a goal of being finished sooner in the process on the next one, because there's plenty more coming up.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:16]:
I guarantee you there's plenty more coming up.
Walker Bird [00:22:19]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:20]:
And there will be plenty more challenges for everybody who's listening where their shit's.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:26]:
Gonna come up too.
Walker Bird [00:22:28]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:29]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:30]:
How do you. How do you stand in the breach? How do you find yourself in there? Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:37]:
Yeah. I was thinking finding yourself, that's the work. Right. And then as we continue to learn more about ourselves, how do we hold on to ourself when we're in that space?
Walker Bird [00:22:49]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:50]:
How do we come back to ourself? I mean, it really is about knowing who we are. It's hard to come back to ourself if we don't even really know who we are.
Walker Bird [00:23:00]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:00]:
Right. And so doing that initial work of, like, who am I? What is important to me? What do I really want?
Walker Bird [00:23:08]:
Yeah, but if you haven't, you still use the grounding techniques. Discussing the sense, the sensory things.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:17]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:23:18]:
The kindness, self kindness, breathing.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:22]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:22]:
The pause.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:24]:
It's all practice.
Walker Bird [00:23:27]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:27]:
Yeah. If you were going to share with everyone something that you wish for them around their perfectionism and truly being kind and helpful and supportive to themselves, what would it be?
Walker Bird [00:24:01]:
Love yourself like your dog loves you and you will do. Well. First thing that came to mind. Well, and it's true.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:12]:
That was gonna say that's your true. True. Right.
Walker Bird [00:24:15]:
Oh, I'm still not doing it, but yeah, it's still helpful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:21]:
Yeah. And if they don't have a dog.
Walker Bird [00:24:27]:
The person from your past or present that loves you the most.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:34]:
That you feel sees you the most.
Walker Bird [00:24:37]:
Yeah, I think so. It's kind.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:41]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Those dogs.
Walker Bird [00:24:48]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:49]:
I've been thinking recently. I mean, we wouldn't bring the dogs into the studio because we'd be covered in hair, but we should. We should bring. We should put them in some of our reels. I just. Because they're so hysterical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are funny, funny dogs.
Walker Bird [00:25:09]:
Yep.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:10]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:25:10]:
Giant huskies.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:11]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:25:12]:
Well, a giant husky and his smaller sister.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:15]:
Right. Who's still big for a husky, but. Yeah. But yes, they are. Clark is enormous.
Walker Bird [00:25:21]:
What is he, babe?
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:23]:
110.
Walker Bird [00:25:24]:
£110? Huge. And he's all muscle.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think she's 80.
Walker Bird [00:25:31]:
She's big. Yeah, she's big, too. And she's all. They're just both all muscle and they got, you know that they look. Yeah, but they're sweet.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:39]:
They are.
Walker Bird [00:25:40]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:40]:
We'll have to get them in some reels. I think people would enjoy seeing them. Yes. Those sweet animals.
Walker Bird [00:25:48]:
I think, babe, ultimately, learning to love ourselves and that there's so many points along that spectrum. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:56]:
Oh.
Walker Bird [00:25:57]:
That we could make about elements of. Of that. That, you know, I'm still learning and everybody out there is, but really, I think it comes back to that because the most comforting thing that we've said today is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:08]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:09]:
You know, almost like, hey, give myself a hug.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:14]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:26:15]:
You know, it's okay. You got this.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:18]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:18]:
Get the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:19]:
Right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. If we could put ourselves often in the shoes of the person that we'll be reading it, we probably would understand better. Right. I mean, I'm not saying we can't lie to ourselves in there, too, but. Yes. As A judge reads probably an incredible amount of documents every day.
Walker Bird [00:26:46]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:47]:
Getting to the point would probably be appreciated.
Walker Bird [00:26:51]:
Guarantee.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:56]:
I know, I like that. Yeah, yeah. And then if I want the other stuff, I can go figure that out.
Walker Bird [00:27:06]:
Right?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:07]:
Yeah, yeah, No, I hear you. Fascinating perspective. Anything else, babe?
Walker Bird [00:27:16]:
I think that'll do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:18]:
Yeah. You're ready.
Walker Bird [00:27:19]:
27 and a half hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:26]:
You are a nut.
Walker Bird [00:27:28]:
How about you? Any last tips or points or most important thing you could share with people who might be struggling with their own perfectionism piece?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:45]:
What comes to mind for me when I think about perfectionism is are we even aware of the story that we're carrying around it? And to me, perfectionism is a survival response. You know, if I don't do this this way, then, and I know this sounds extreme, but as a child, it was life or death. Right, right. And so we can be dismissive of it being that severe for us as an adult, but I think it feels that real often.
Walker Bird [00:28:18]:
Well, there wouldn't be panic in a 57 year old guy with lots of experience.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:28:25]:
Without that being down inside. Right. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:29]:
Right. So why do I think if I don't do this perfectly, I will die? Yeah. Just to have that level of inquiry. And again, I know it seems extreme, but when I sit with people every day, it's not really. Yeah. So being curious with yourself, I think never stop being curious with yourself. Yeah. So as we wrap it up, so you can get back to your brief, thanks for taking the time to come and have the conversation.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:10]:
I hope that it was helpful in some way for you to find what you need to get through the next 27 and a half hours.
Walker Bird [00:29:18]:
Yeah, I think so.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:21]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:29:21]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:23]:
And then I think, what else have we not talked about? Oh, we're going to continue to remind people to, if they subscribe, to hit the notification bell on YouTube, like subscribe.
Walker Bird [00:29:38]:
And then hit the notification bell. Because the subscribe button disappears and the notification bell pops up, takes its place.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:43]:
Yeah. You have to hit it twice. Right. I know.
Walker Bird [00:29:46]:
And then if you're like me and you didn't do social media for, for most of your life, it's like, oh, right, right. I wonder why I never heard from those people again. Well, hit the notification bell and you will.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:57]:
Yeah, yeah. And just that we continue to make progress on the parenting series and that we are. I mean, I think as of right now, we're going to release them all at the same time as like a playlist on YouTube so that people can go watch them because since they'll each be like our 10 or 15 minute topic. Um, so we are still working on that. I'm sorry it's taken us so long. Yeah, but it is. It's been a lot. The first six months of the year for us and you know, exciting times.
Walker Bird [00:30:28]:
Just busy.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:28]:
Yeah, just busy and. Yeah. And just continuing to encourage people to put effort into healthy relationship. It's worth it.
Walker Bird [00:30:42]:
I love you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:43]:
I love you too. Good luck tonight.
Walker Bird [00:30:46]:
Thanks.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:48]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.