From Vision to Divine Provision with Linda Howard

Linda Howard [00:00:00]:
It's the knowing what you want, asking the right source, believing that it's possible, and then you have to take action. And, you know, when I have these discussions, particularly with people who are centered in those Abrahamic religions, I, you know, I mentioned as an example, even Noah had to build the ark. It wasn't just delivered. There had to be, you know, it had to be some action. So. So I thought that that was a really important stage. And, you know, and I would say to people sometimes, like before I wrote the book, you can't just pray about it. You got to be about it.

Walker Bird [00:00:45]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:13]:
Well, hello, Linda. How are you?

Linda Howard [00:01:15]:
I'm wonderful. It's good to be here.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:18]:
Yeah, it's good to see you again. Thank you for coming back. We're excited to talk about your. Not only your new book that you have that's come out, which is just to make sure I get it right, From Vision to Divine Provision, the Islamic Art of Sacred Manifestation.

Linda Howard [00:01:37]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:37]:
You get it, right? Yeah. So share with us the. What got you to that place of wanting to write this new book.

Linda Howard [00:01:50]:
I look at this book as the second part of. Of the series.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:55]:
Okay.

Linda Howard [00:01:56]:
So the first book, Crescent Over Crossroads, that we talked about, I guess it's probably been about a year ago when we talked about Crescent Over Crossroads, that was really my journey as a African American female Muslim, navigating corporate America, navigating law, and navigating my travels around the globe. So I was really sharing with people just a lot of that personal development and me getting to that place of authenticity and feeling really comfortable with who I was. And the second book, From Vision to Divine Provision, is a little bit of deeper dive into that. Into that process of looking at, you know, I talk about in the. In the second book, just that doing that visioning, that inner work, the meditation, and then how that manifests into the. Our, you know, our hopes and dreams. So it is. It is a part of the same series.

Linda Howard [00:03:07]:
I have a third book that I hope to publish in this series, and I really started working on the third book as the second book, and then I was inspired to write this book, and I put that on pause and started writing From Vision to Divine Provision.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:24]:
Oh, yay.

Walker Bird [00:03:26]:
Where do you find the energy to get it all done is one of.

Linda Howard [00:03:31]:
The questions I got. I know. You know, I really think this book, this was. I. It came through me and not from me. And so there was a lot in this book that just really flowed from how I was inspired to writing, writing, writing it. And when I started writing it, and then now that it's written, just the feedback that I've gotten from it, I really feel like this is. Is something that kind of came through me and it wasn't.

Linda Howard [00:04:06]:
It seems like it might be, you know, might have been a heavy lift, but when you're doing something that you enjoy and it's just flowing, it. It really wasn't energy consuming. Consume time, but not energy.

Walker Bird [00:04:22]:
Nice. And probably that whole process goes directly to your whole process.

Linda Howard [00:04:28]:
Yes, I really implemented the process in writing the book. Yes.

Walker Bird [00:04:34]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:35]:
Okay. Oh, okay.

Walker Bird [00:04:36]:
And it's a. It's a seven step framework that you're using. Can you tell us more about it?

Linda Howard [00:04:41]:
Yes. Okay, so I'll tell you first, how I got here. Okay. Is that I started a woman's gathering at my home called Sister Steadfast Saturdays. And one of the things I've just purchased a home in December. And a part of my process for getting this home and getting the home that I wanted was visualizing it and then doing serious prayers around it and what I wanted to use it for. And one of the things that I wanted to use it for is that I wanted it to be a place where people would gather. And so.

Linda Howard [00:05:21]:
And in these gatherings, somebody mentioned, you know, about, you know, how did you find the house? And I said, oh, I have a whole process. And so I brought up my vision board. And in the next gathering, some people said, hey, I heard you have a vision board that people were talking about, can I see it? So I brought it out again. And then I got asked questions about, what is your process? And by being asked that question, I had to think about it. So I stepped away from the gathering and I started to think about, like, what exactly is your process? How would you explain this to someone? Because, you know, sometimes you're just doing it and not really looking at the steps. And I started to document it, and I was documenting it more to have a session in one of the gatherings, not to write a book. And when I started to put it down, felt like the audience was larger than the circle that was coming to my house. And that got me to really start to think about the process.

Linda Howard [00:06:28]:
And so those seven steps, it was first the visualization and Looking at that visualization and having just some real intentions behind it and doing meditation. But in my visualization, I was taking that and I was tying it to some higher goal. That the visualization and my desires were not just about me, but it was about something higher. And so it was that process. And then the second step was asking Allah for what it was that I desired. And this may kind of distinguished it from the new age concepts of manifestation, where, where the, where the discussion is about asking the universe. And so this did not align with who I was as a Muslim to be asking the universe for something. Because my thought is, why are we asking something that's created and not asking the Creator? And so, so that was the second process of really where that prayer was.

Linda Howard [00:07:45]:
And then it was believing, believing in God and believing that it was possible and, and really, really embracing that belief. And oftentimes again, you know, sometimes you have, you know, people who say it from a religious perspective, oh, God will provide. And they think that they could just ask and God is going to provide some. Some of the manifestation principles is, if you think about it long enough and change your frame of mind, all of these things, because you believe you're going to be a millionaire, the millions are going to come. And like, it doesn't happen like that. There's. You need to have action. So it's the, it's the knowing what you want, asking the right source, believing that it's possible, and then you have to take action.

Linda Howard [00:08:34]:
And, you know, when I have these discussions, particularly with people who are centered in those Abrahamic religions, I, you know, I mentioned as an example, even Noah had to build the ark. It wasn't just delivered. There had to be, you know, it had to be some action. So I thought that that was a really important stage. And, you know, and I would say to people sometimes, like before I wrote the book, you can't just pray about it. You got to be about it. It's not just about prayer. You have to have some.

Linda Howard [00:09:09]:
You have to have some action. And so I wanted to make sure I spent some time talking about that. And then it was trust, you know, being able to trust the process and trust in, you know, what would come to you. And trust that what you're, what you are receiving is what you need. Because sometimes we don't always get what it is that we want, but we will get what it is that we need. And so it's trusting that process. And then one of the hardest steps is patience. And, you know, because we don't always get Things when we want them.

Linda Howard [00:09:58]:
You know, we. We may ask for something, pray for something, and it may come three years down the line, and it may come in a different way than how we expected it to come. So it was that patience. And then the last phase was when you receive it, receive it with gratitude, because gratitude multiplies blessings. And so I, you know, I thought about, you know, I thought about things that I've asked for in my life and thought about the stages that I went through. And then I started thinking about, you know, real life experiences where these things came to life. And so throughout the book, I weave in personal stories as to, you know, to show, like, how this particular thing showed itself in my life.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:55]:
Yeah, yeah. I really value the framework, Linda. Yeah, I'm walking through that process for myself of the last time I created a vision board, which was earlier this year. And, yeah, it's so interesting. The pieces that I feel like now I can do more clearly.

Linda Howard [00:11:27]:
Clear.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Linda Howard [00:11:30]:
And it's important because, like, when I first talked to the women in my circle about doing a vision board, I scheduled that for, like, three months down the line because I wanted people to do the visioning work. Because sometimes you have people have these vision board parties, and they're great and they're fun, but they don't come into it with kind of clear vision of what it is that they want or why they want it. Because when you do that work and think about why you want something, you may find that that's not exactly what you want, or you might can achieve that through some other means. So I wanted us to do the. I wanted us to do that work in terms of visioning. And then I also wanted us to do the work of really feeling what was possible and not to feel like an ask was too big. And so we. So we had, like, every session, we meet once a month, and every session we would have a different.

Linda Howard [00:12:29]:
Different theme. And so we, you know, we focused on different themes. And then by the time we got to the vision board, before we started, we started with some meditation and visualization, and then we worked on the board. And I thought that that would be a process where, you know, what you were putting on the board was more representative of what your. What your true desires were and not as you're flipping through the magazine, you see, you know, this great vacation spot, and so you stick that on the board or you see a really great house, you know, and you're like, oh, I want that. You know, so, yeah, so it really is doing the vision board With a lot of intention. And I have a chapter in the book that deals with that and kind of the steps and the templates to doing vision boards.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:25]:
Yeah.

Linda Howard [00:13:25]:
And I know when I was on your last show, one of your listeners sent you an email and said that she was particularly interested in the whole vision board process. So I hope she's listening again.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:39]:
I'm sure she is. I'm sure she is. Well, and we'll send her the link directly, too, so.

Linda Howard [00:13:48]:
Good, good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:50]:
Yeah, yeah. It's really. It's interesting, too. There was something that you said a few minutes ago, Linda, and I don't remember you didn't say it this way. This is how it popped up in my head, which was, to be clear, what you're really asking for, because it may come into your life. And are you really ready for that? Right. Yeah.

Linda Howard [00:14:20]:
Yeah. And. And I think that that's important because I talk about, like, in my first book, and. And I think this was. I'm not sure which book that I read it in. It might have been Habits of Highly Effective People. I'm not. I'm not sure.

Linda Howard [00:14:40]:
But anyway, it was something that said, you spend your life climbing the corporate ladder only to find out that it was leaning against the wrong building. And. And. And. And I felt that to some extent, when I looked at my own life and just all the things that I did and, you know, the, you know, the schools and. And applying myself and the type of jobs that I went after to get to a certain place and my career and then deciding this is not what I want.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:18]:
Right.

Linda Howard [00:15:18]:
And so, yeah, sometimes we do that. We think we want something and we put, you know, we put a lot of. Lot of energy into it and. And invest a lot of years. And sometimes we invest so many years that. That we. We stay because we feel like we're already in it. We already have so much invested.

Linda Howard [00:15:38]:
Invested in it. So it is important to really know, you know, what it is that you want and why you want it, and not to say, you know, okay, I'm gonna look at this great house and a magazine and cut it out and put it on my board. Because, like, when I started thinking about what kind of home I wanted, I thought about, how do I want to feel in the house? What do I want to feel when I wake up in the morning? How do I want to experience it? How do I want, you know, other people to experience it? How do, you know, what are the things that I want to do in the house? And that gave me a real clear picture about what kind of house I wanted, what, how much space, you know, what kind of floor plan, you know, all of that came into play so that I didn't end up with what I thought was my dream house. And it didn't function the way that I wanted it to function. And that's, that's why being really clear about, you know, about what you want in your life, it's not about saying, I want to be a millionaire, what do you want to do with the million? And, and you may can accomplish those same things with a quarter of the money. It may not take a million for you to do and experience the things that you, that you want to experience. So it's more about looking at what it is that you want and then being open to how that may come to you. Because you can say, you know what, I'm going to be able to travel the world.

Linda Howard [00:17:19]:
Well, you may get an opportunity to travel the world where it doesn't cost you anything.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:23]:
Yeah, yeah. That sounds fantastic. Uh huh. I agree, I agree. Wow.

Walker Bird [00:17:35]:
Have you ever felt confused or overwhelmed in relationships? Teresa and I have come up with a free mini course that we think will really help you out with a lot of the common relationship experiences so that you can improve your communication skills with all of the people in your life and really make a change for the better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:52]:
Yeah, we really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn healthy relationship skills so that we can get through life having a good healthy relationship experience. So click the link, put your email in, you'll get the PDF, spend a few hours working on it and please let us know what your experience is. We know it will benefit you in some way. Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:18:15]:
Thank you. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:18]:
Okay.

Linda Howard [00:18:19]:
I thought that was pretty good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:20]:
Okay, sounds good.

Linda Howard [00:18:21]:
Okay, check, check.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:24]:
So interesting. It really is I my process around this vision board. What I did is I did prepare, you know, for it and then instead of looking through magazines for pictures, which I is what I had done in the past, I used an AI generator, picture generator and I typed in, you know what it was that I was wanting to create visually and that was helpful for me. And so yeah, that added a little bit more depth and a little bit more, I don't know, intentionality or focus for me than, than in the past. So. Yeah, but even as you're talking I'm like, I can like feel the energy of my board differently than I did even before we started talking. So thank you for that.

Linda Howard [00:19:22]:
Yeah. And I, I didn't do the AI generated images, but I did some magazines. But I also sought out Images, like, online.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:31]:
Okay.

Linda Howard [00:19:32]:
And. And then I printed them out. I know some people like to do vision boards, like on Canva or what's Pinterest? Like, they'll do vision boards there. I. I personally think that it's important to use more senses. The touching, the cutting, the pasting, the arranging, and then also have that. That physical board. Because when it's something online, you know, how often are you gonna.

Linda Howard [00:20:09]:
How often are you gonna look at it? And it just bit too distant for me. So when we did ours, I encouraged everyone to do, you know, to actually do boards. And one person, she was traveling that came and she had a great idea, and I'm good, you know, and I'm going to definitely use this as I do retreats with people, is that she did, like, boards that were much smaller squares, and she did several of them. And so. And I didn't even know. And I was like, is that your. Where's your board? And she's like, right here. And she said, you know, I'm traveling.

Linda Howard [00:20:49]:
So. So she actually did hers on. On different, smaller boards. And, like, she took each concept and did a board on the. On each one. And I thought that that was, you know, and I thought that was great because I was trying to think, like, how are you going to do this when people travel to you and they got to take these vision boards back? And I was like, maybe we'll do and stroll. You know, I was thinking of all these different things, but I'm like, oh, that's great. You know, put them in squares, and then they.

Linda Howard [00:21:19]:
They can also, you know, use them as individual ones, or when they get home, actually then create the. You know, put them together as. Onto a bigger board.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:29]:
Yeah, yeah. You know, something else I did this year, which was interesting, was I hung it above my bed behind me, and when I'm sitting up in bed and I look in the mirror, I can see it.

Linda Howard [00:21:43]:
Oh, nice, nice, nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:48]:
And I had never. I hadn't had it so visually, you know, accessible. It was always, you know, in my room somewhere, but not. Not quite like that. And it's been nice. Yeah, yeah.

Linda Howard [00:22:00]:
Nice, nice, nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:01]:
Yeah, yeah. It's such a great process. So I. I can't wait to. To dig in even more as we. As we will do our next one as life continues to evolve. Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:22:16]:
You've. You mentioned here you call this part of the spiritual intention part is vision board with Taqwa. Did I mispronounce that horribly?

Linda Howard [00:22:26]:
No, no, no, you did well.

Walker Bird [00:22:29]:
I want to hear more about what that means, because I don't, I'm not familiar with the, the word. But also in this, the process is, is discerning personal desire versus divine intention. And I, I somehow you're, you're, you're assimilating those two. Right? And, and I want to know more about that piece of this process. Or maybe you're not, maybe it is completely just the divine intention piece for you. So can you speak to that?

Linda Howard [00:23:02]:
Okay, so when I talk about the difference between just like that personal desire and in that divine intention, it's really again, thinking about, you know, why do you want this? And making sure that it is aligned with being pleasing to Allah. And so it's because sometimes we want things that are not pleasing to God. So that's one aspect of it, is making sure it aligns with who you say you are. So from a religious perspective, whether you say, I'm Muslim, I'm Christian, I'm Catholic, I'm Jewish, whatever that is, that your desires should align with who you say you are. And, and then the, the other part of that, in terms of one is that, that alignment with, with who you say you are. But the other part of it is looking at it as something bigger than yourself. So what impact does this desire have, Will it have on your family relationships? What impact does it have on your community? What impact does it has on the society as a whole? And then the other part of it is one of the things that when we ask as Muslims, when we ask for guidance, we ask whether or not this is going to be something that's good for us in this world, good for our religion, and good for us in the next world. So it's looking at all of those things from a.

Linda Howard [00:24:58]:
How is it aligning? How is it going to impact those around me in the larger society? And how is this going to be good for me in the next world? So that's the alignment I'm talking about with the intentions. And oftentimes when people will do that work, they will adjust what it is that they desire and start thinking about that, start thinking about that bigger picture. You don't want to have these desires, gain it. And then you have, you know, terrible relationships with your children. Right. You know, so it's, it's, it's that, it's that alignment. And then the, the, the taqua is, it's, it's about that trust. And I think that that's what you were asking about.

Linda Howard [00:25:51]:
Yes. Yeah. So it's about having, it's about having that trust now. You know, making a Distinction because, but between, because they're related but different. So you have belief believing and then you have trust. So, so believing is more believing that it can be done. Trust is believing that it will be done. And so, so it's, it's also, you know, having that, having that trust and that, that it will be done.

Linda Howard [00:26:27]:
And some of us can't get past that. It can be done. Some of us get past that it can be done but we don't think it's going to be done for us. And so, so did I answer your question?

Walker Bird [00:26:40]:
You, you did. And how, how do you help people get to that space? Because it's, that's part of your, the teaching process is getting to the, it will be done right. If people are struggling. What, what's your advice?

Linda Howard [00:26:55]:
Well, you know, I do this from a religious perspective.

Walker Bird [00:26:59]:
Yes.

Linda Howard [00:27:00]:
So and I do say, you know, I'm, I'm making reference to, to quotes in the Quran and the Hadith, which is the book of the life of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him. But would you, so I'm, I'm, I'm talking to people really from a religious perspective. And, and I say this guidance that I'm, that I'm suggesting is for those that do come from a God centered perspective because there are people that don't believe in God or they don't believe, you know, they don't believe in any supreme being they may be, you know, their religious basis does not have, have a deity. And so, so when I'm talking about it from, from this framework, the way of helping people get there is to really start to quote what's in the holy book. And, and I've had Christians that have read it and say the Bible says the same thing. And so my discussion is this is a promise from God. So you know, in the Bible it says ask and you shall receive.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:28]:
And.

Linda Howard [00:28:30]:
They'Re both. The Bible and the Qur’an talks about that gratitude multiplies blessings. And so it's having that discussion and understanding this is not a promise that I'm making to you. This is a promise that God made to you that when, when certain things occur that there is a response if you're, if you're praying with the right intentions and the, and, and, and a good heart and you're coming, you're coming to God with clean hands. You know, and I've had some people, you know, and I, and I talk about this concept and you know, Walker, I'm sure you can relate to this as from a rel. Legal concept. But I think that the same concept applies in a religious context. Is that, like, from a.

Linda Howard [00:29:33]:
From a legal standpoint, it's a doctrine of clean hands. You don't come to the court asking for relief when your hands are dirty. And it's the same thing when you are asking God for something. You should be working on having your life in order.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:52]:
Right.

Linda Howard [00:29:53]:
You know, that you can't have a life of all of this wrongdoing, making money by means that harm other people, that don't align with your religious practices. And then you're asking for these gifts from God. So the work is really about taking a holistic approach. What's in your heart, what's in your. What's in your actions, and what do you intend to do with those blessings when you receive them? And that when you can start to put all of those elements in place, you will see things start to unfold. And I give examples in terms of my own life, you know, when. When I, you know, when I experienced it. And I also, you know, talk about that I didn't always do everything right.

Linda Howard [00:30:57]:
And so I have those stories, too. Yeah, I have those stories when I didn't have, you know, when the intentions were not aligned. And I talk about, you know, I say it. I was, you know, it was a light discussion in my book, but it was something that was real and that was. I wanted a particular car, and my desire to get the car had nothing to do with status. I wanted the comfort of the car. I wanted the reliability of the car. I drive a lot, and I wanted the car that I was going to feel safe on the road, and I wasn't going to feel the road, and that it was going to be a reliable car.

Linda Howard [00:31:39]:
And that was my intention. I've never really been focused on a car for status. When I got out of law school, I was driving a. A Toyota hatchback manual with no ac, and refused to get a new car. One of the partners in the firm said, you are making us look bad. People think we're not paying you enough if you're still driving around in that car. And I'm like, you're not. You know, you want me to drive a nice car, Give me a company car.

Linda Howard [00:32:12]:
But right now I'm in my. My car with the window rolled down. Cars have never been a big thing for me. So now I got this car and. And I find myself walking with just a little bit more pride as I'm walking towards the car, like, oh, this is a nice car. And I'm thinking, yeah, people Want to see me driving, you know, getting into this nice car. Car. So I'm at the.

Linda Howard [00:32:42]:
I'm at the masjid, and I get into the car, and I know that I have in my head that I'm getting into a nice car. I pull out of the parking space, slam the car into a column. Now, the column was there when I got into the car, and maybe if I wasn't so worried about how I was walking towards my car, I would have remembered the column. So I hit the column and I said. I didn't even get upset. I said, that's a reminder to you that your ego was never supposed to be tied to this car. And so now I'm telling a friend of mine this story. And she laughed and she was like, and you got your lesson at the masjid after Jumu’ah, Right? And so we laughed about it.

Linda Howard [00:33:42]:
Now I drove around with this dent on my car for about two months just to remind me that my ego was never supposed to be in the car. And so I felt like I got an immediate reminder with that. So that having some pride lasted for a very short time because I had only had the car a few weeks. You know, I'd only had the car a few weeks, and I. And I just couldn't get mad about it. I laughed about it. And so I think, you know, it's important to really think about, like, why you want something and then when you get it, remember why you wanted it.

Walker Bird [00:34:23]:
Yes.

Linda Howard [00:34:24]:
Because we'll say, oh, yeah, if I had. If I had this, if I had money, I would help people out. Then you get the money, and now you start making excuses of why you can't give. And so that's the kind of work that I, you know, that I do with people to help them get there and understand that, you know, it's okay to ask, and it's okay to ask big as long as you're asking for the right people reasons and you are working towards keeping your life in order and being grateful when those blessings come.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:03]:
Yeah, I love that integrity.

Walker Bird [00:35:10]:
It's great. I just love it, the whole process. And it's bigger than a vision board. I mean, this is a big vision board. It's really beautiful. And I just.

Linda Howard [00:35:19]:
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is bigger. And then, you know, the third part of the book, when I say it's, you know, also tied to what I do and, you know, in terms of the. The compliance and the ethics work, is that I. I did the third part of the book to look at the seasons of life because it is very Easy to, to, to stay on track when everything is going well. The hard part is when you have to really make those tough decisions and tough decisions when you get these dilemmas between, oh, I'm being asked to do something that really doesn't align with who I am, but if I don't, I feel like I'm going to lose my job. Or you get an offer for something and there's, you know, it's a lot of money involved for a client or a job. And then you have to, you know, you, you have to make those decisions or you're going through some kind of crisis in your life and, you know, you're going through a death, you're going through a divorce.

Linda Howard [00:36:37]:
And now how do you keep these, these daily practices during that, during that time? So I do spend some time in the third part of the book just dealing with some of those real life situations because we're going to go through different seasons in our life. We're going to have crisis. And it's in that time that this process is even more important. It's not a time to toss it to the side. It really is a time to implement it. And I wanted to make sure I was spending time with that because I've gone through a lot of trials and tribulations in my life and it can be really difficult during that time to say, okay, I'm going to still do my meditation, to be able to take time to do that meditation. And doing that meditation is really what helped me through, helped me through those, helped me through those crisis and understanding, you know, and being able to put into play those principles around, principles around prayer and believing, you know, that you can ask for that relief. Because asking the prayers and intention goes far beyond material things.

Linda Howard [00:38:06]:
It's looking for, you know, family, certain family structures and happiness and peace and relief from grief and all of those things. And so I wanted to make sure I was addressing that and that this is not just something to implement when you want to pray for a new career or, you know, vacations and things like that. All which is good as well. But, but there is, you know, we, there's so many other aspects of our lives that, that we want to grow in. You know, we want to grow in our happiness and our, in our mental health and our, in our physical health. And so I addressed that in the third part of the book. And, and I found that I was really drawing from the things that I do with organizations, helping organizations turn situations around and helping organizations understand how to make ethical business decisions and how to guide their employees in making those ethical decisions. And all of that came into play as I started thinking about, okay, now that we've done all of this, we've done the foundational work, I've gone through all of the principles, and now I need to deal with when people really have to deal with on a day to day basis, when everything is not perfect, when you don't have that, you know, quiet environment, when you got, you know, a household of six people and the kids got to get out the door, you know, and lunches have to be made.

Linda Howard [00:39:57]:
See, I'm, I'm not in that position. So for me it's, you know, these things become easy, you know, for me to get up. I don't have kids that I got to get out the door to go to, you know, to go to school. And, and I'm not juggling those things. Like, I've had periods in my life where I've had to juggle, and I was a caregiver and things like that, but I'm not there now. But I had to call on all of that and say, how did you get through those difficult times? And so that's what I share in the third part. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:31]:
I know. You're processing lots, aren't you? You?

Walker Bird [00:40:33]:
I, it's just inspiring. It just is.

Linda Howard [00:40:39]:
Yeah, it is.

Walker Bird [00:40:42]:
It's a, it's a beautiful work. And just the, I'm sitting here thinking about that you saying this is flowing through me. And it's because you, with each of the parts of the book that you're revealing as we talk, I'm just like, gosh, how did that come to you? Because it's, it's really broad and so it's a, this model for living. So.

Linda Howard [00:41:06]:
Yeah, and you know, I reached out to you with, for this, for this book because I thought it was just so aligned with just the, your podcast and the concept of my inner knowing. And you know, this is also an Islamic concept as well referred to as fitra. And, and that's that kind of inner knowing that, you know, that we, that we have that divine knowing what knowing, you know, right from, you know, right from wrong. And, and, and even when everyone else is telling you to do something and you just know that you know what's right. You know, like, you know, something that, yeah, that's not right. It doesn't, it doesn't feel right. And, and that is a lot that I felt like, I felt like I tapped into that a lot in writing this book. And I say in this book and I Say, in the.

Linda Howard [00:42:09]:
You know, the Crescent Over Crossroads, that I'm not a scholar. You know, I'm not an Islamic scholar. And so I am, you know, this is being written from a lived experience standpoint. And I'm also tapping into what I know, you know, and. And I feel like I tap into that because I spend a lot of time in silence. You know, I spend that time in meditation. I've been doing meditation for well over 20 years, probably. Probably at least 25 years or so.

Linda Howard [00:42:55]:
And I. And I would say that it probably started a lot. A lot earlier than that, because even when I was a kid, I would be up in my room, quiet, and my father would holler upstairs, what are you doing up there? Come downstairs. Like, because I was just up there, and I didn't have the television on. Like, he's like, what is that girl doing in that room by herself? I would spend time. Quiet. I would spend time. And I would be writing.

Linda Howard [00:43:28]:
I would be writing poetry, you know, And I. And. And as I started to get older, probably at least about 25 years ago, I started, like, a formal process of meditation. And I don't leave my house without doing it. It. Whether it's five minutes or one hour. But my. My thinking has always been, you know, to center myself in my world before I go out into the world.

Linda Howard [00:43:59]:
Because when you go out into the world, there's a lot of noise. There's a lot. Where people are. You know, people give a lot of unsolicited advice, you know, and, you know, you get opinions about everything. And I'm like, I didn't ask you. I don't know why you thought you needed to advise me on this, but you get a lot of, you know, you get a lot of unsolicited advice, then you just get a lot of things of just looking at what other people are doing and what's happening. And I thought, you know, it's really important to have, you know, to. To be quiet.

Linda Howard [00:44:37]:
And in that quietness, this book emerged. And it really was that inner knowing that brought it, you know, that brought this out and brought out these stages. And for me to feel comfortable writing it in the manner that I wrote it, knowing that I am not a scholar and. But I'm still giving this. I'm still giving this advice, and I feel comfortable giving the advice because of that concept of fitra. That. That what we know, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:20]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. One of the things, Linda, that you had written to us about was doing this work, and to me, it's all connected. But without abandoning your soul. So when you. When you think about that concept, what comes to mind for you?

Linda Howard [00:45:49]:
Well, I think a lot of times we. In some of the work that we do, sometimes we have to be other than ourselves. There's, you know, and then there's. There's groups of people who find that they. They have to do this more than others.

Walker Bird [00:46:08]:
And.

Linda Howard [00:46:09]:
But I think oftentimes we all get challenged. We all get challenged with that of, you know, do working in a profession where we feel like this is what we have to do and it doesn't necessarily necessarily align with. With who we are. And my. When I say that, I'm thinking of that you can have the things that you want in your life without abandoning who you are. You may have to have it. And, you know, it may come to you in a different way, but it needs to be that trust that it will come to you. And so you don't have to work at that particular job.

Linda Howard [00:46:56]:
You don't have to change yourself to be accepted by a group of people. I've done presentations with people, and they've asked me this question, like when I've done work in the diversity, equity and inclusion space, where I've said to people, they may not be your people. What you need to do is find your people. People. And, and oftentimes we don't think that there's a group of people where we can have all of that and not. And not lose who we are. And, you know, and I've had that fear myself. And as I, you know, as I started to get more comfortable with who I was, I found my people.

Linda Howard [00:47:43]:
And, you know, initially I thought, you know, maybe I might have trouble finding clients, but I don't, because I think clients actually appreciate my authenticity. I don't look like them, I don't dress like them, but that's okay because I'm delivering. And I think people. I think people, you know, appreciate that. And I can't remember if I said. I think I said it in the first book in the Crescent Over Crossroads wrote is that I, you know, I rather be. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. And.

Linda Howard [00:48:25]:
And sometimes we have such a desire to be accepted and loved that the person that they're loving is not even you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:35]:
Right.

Linda Howard [00:48:35]:
And so. So that's. So that's what I meant by that concept of believing that you can have your dreams without giving up your soul.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:48]:
Yeah. We just recorded an episode that came out on Friday called the Freedom of Being Disliked.

Linda Howard [00:48:59]:
I have to listen to that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:05]:
It's such a work.

Linda Howard [00:49:08]:
And. Yeah, and it's, you know, and it's, and it's good work. And I'm, and I, you know, and I. You have to get comfortable. You really have to get comfortable with that because, because some people really have, you know, really have trouble with that. But for me also, from a religious perspective, my first goal is to please God. That's the first goal. So I don't want to sacrifice that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:31]:
Yeah.

Linda Howard [00:49:32]:
In order to please someone else. Because, you know, these relationships are very temporary. Even, even if someone is, and I say temporary in a sense that this all is temporary. So even when you say, oh yeah, this person and I have been friends for 40 years, but one of you are going to leave the other one, you know, eventually someone is going to pass on. And so, you know, these relationships are in, are very temporary and in this world. And then when we start thinking about, from a work perspective, oftentimes we think they can't do without us. They can. The organization is going to go on.

Linda Howard [00:50:14]:
And when you work yourself to a point where you get sick, you might get sent flowers, but they will go on. And so this whole concept of pleasing people that are in and that are very temporary, it's something that a lot of people have to really kind of think about and work through. So I definitely want to listen to that podcast.

Walker Bird [00:50:41]:
Well, I wish I'd heard you say that 30 years ago when I was a first year associate, a law firm.

Linda Howard [00:50:48]:
Hey, I wish I knew it when I was a first year.

Walker Bird [00:50:53]:
You hear me?

Linda Howard [00:50:57]:
You know, it took me a while, it took me a while to get there, you know, as well. And, and, and I, and even like when I tried to, when I, you know, when I initially kind of moved away from the practice of law and I was talking to younger people, it was really still difficult for them to even understand what I was saying because it's something that you have to experience and then you have to make that call. And oftentimes it's difficult for people to make the call because they've already built a lifestyle right around it. And you know, they have a spouse, the kids are in private school, and, you know, they're, you know, they've invested all of this and to switch gears oftentimes mean that if you switch to another career, you're not coming in at the same level because now you're new, you're new in that, you're new in that career. So a lot of people have, you know, go through that And I, you know, I went through that as well, of feeling, feeling like, you know, I, you know, I needed to please. I, probably not as much as some of my, some of my colleagues, some of my, some of my peers. You know, a lot of people used to think that, you know, I had a lot of courage, but I did in comparison to some. But, but still there was that of, of wanting to make sure you did what you needed to do and in order to fit in and keep your job.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:34]:
Right? Yeah, yeah. I think they call that phenomena where we have increased our lifestyle to match or to exceed what we're making. Golden handcuffs. Right?

Linda Howard [00:52:51]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's true because it is very difficult. And you know, I worked for large firms in New York and nobody else pays you like that. You know, the money we were making as first year lawyers never should have been making. You know, we didn't know anything. But I mean, that's the reality. I mean, you got through the bar, but if, but you know, if you were a litigator, you didn't know how to file a complaint. You know, you didn't know what a courthouse was.

Linda Howard [00:53:28]:
And so, so there was a, you know, there was a lot of money being made for and you knew very little. And you know, you would go and do your research and then it was going to the library, you know, library and the firm and you know, doing all your research and writing your memo and giving it to the partners and getting it back with more read comments on it than your pride could handle. Like what? You know, but, you know, you. So we got paid a lot of money for, for that wasn't commensurate with what we knew and you couldn't go anywhere else and make that money. So it was very hard for a lot of my peers that when we were working in those, when in those firms, like one of my friends, she was like, I can't do this. And, and she just really started saving and paying off her student loans and just living, you know, like a very, very modest life because she said that's the only way I'm going to be able to. That's the only way I'm going to be able to walk away from this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:50]:
Yeah, yeah. Understood. Yeah.

Linda Howard [00:54:56]:
Yep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:56]:
So, yeah, I feel like I was fortunate. In my 20s, I worked at a big accounting firm and I was struggling. I wasn't getting paid what I was capable of doing because I didn't have the right degree. My degree was in philosophy, not accounting. And see, so even though I performed exceptionally well, they wouldn't pay me because I didn't have the right degree title. And I remember struggling to leave and one of my managers said, teresa, you need to find what feels right for you. Someday none of us will be here. And there was so much permission that he gave me that really influenced a lot of my life.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:53]:
But there was a part of me that just wanted to stay because I thought if they'd stay, maybe they'd choose me and see me and value me. But that wasn't their lens, that wasn't their goal. And that was hard to reconcile. But, but I did and it was helpful, a helpful lesson.

Linda Howard [00:56:18]:
And you know, and that was a great lesson. And you know, particularly like in the, in the law firms, I don't, you know, I've been out of it for so long, so I don't know how they function now. But you know, when I was in law firms, you know, they had basically an up or out policy if you didn't, they didn't have permanent associates. So. And it's going to be a small percentage of people that would make partner. So you, so you really are looking at, and I don't know what that percentage is, probably no more than 10%. So you got 90% of the people that weren't going to make it. And that was just, just the natural structure of things that when you got to, you know, eight years and if you weren't considered to be being a partner, you might as well just leave because you were going to be gone.

Linda Howard [00:57:13]:
And you know, they start thinking about like you start thinking about who's on a partnership track. And so, so you would find yourself anyway at that eight year point saying, I have to leave because I'm not on track for, you know, I'm not on track for partner. So that's put a lot more pressure on people to conform and to try to fit in because it really was the survival of the fittest, so to speak. And that was just, you know, that was just the reality. And when you worked in those, when you worked in those large firms, you could say, okay, I'm going to go and start my own practice. But you did get really used to all of the resources of a large firm and you had to admit you had to be able to make that shift from the resources of those firms and then maybe you can get something in house. So people really went through those crisis when they got to that seven, eight, nine years out of school because so few people may got on that partnership track. And then I'm talking about those large firms New York firms.

Linda Howard [00:58:33]:
So, you know, that might not have been the case in some other environments, but that was the world that I came up in that, that you really, if you wanted to stay, get on that partnership track, you had to really do whatever you needed to do to fit in and make a whole lot of sacrifices, you know, sacrifices of your time. Sacrifices. Time you had to spend, you know, to spend with. With family, attend functions that you didn't enjoy, you know, because there were always functions and dinners and firm outings and all of those things. And you had to go and you had to smile and. And act like you enjoyed it even if you didn't. That sounds. So I am happy to be where I am now and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:31]:
Yeah.

Linda Howard [00:59:31]:
To love what I'm doing and love the people that I'm doing it with and anything that I could do to help others get to this place where they can realize that they can have, you know, their dreams fulfilled and still be themselves, you know, is a. Is a wonderful thing. So me writing this book is. It's, you know, it's very important for me to be able to do that and to be able to tell the stories that I'm telling in the book. And I'm hoping that it is something that people can, you know, people can pick up and that they can relate to and be able to take these principles, no matter what faith they come from, to be able to take these principles and understand the, you know, the concepts of. Of aligning what you want with. With your values and believing that it is, you know, it's possible and having, you know, taking those concerted efforts, those actions and, and allowing things to happen in the time frame, you know, that it's supposed to happen, and then to be able to show that gratitude when all those blessings come your way.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:01]:
Yeah. Yay. Thank you, Linda. It was so good to see you again. And we look forward to the third book.

Linda Howard [01:01:11]:
Yes. As soon as it comes, I'll be reaching out, saying, hey, that's wonderful. It's here.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, anything that you want to leave with our listeners as we finish up tonight.

Linda Howard [01:01:26]:
Okay. One, just to let people know how they can reach me. And the book From Vision to Divine Provision is available on. On Amazon. And you can reach out to me directly at engage@withlindahoward those are all of my social media handles, the YouTube and Instagram and Facebook. So please do reach out to me when you read the book.

Linda Howard [01:02:02]:
Reach out to me. I do want to get, you know, I do want to get feedback. It is a, you know, it's a process, it's a journey. And I want to be able to learn, learn from other people's experience. Like what worked well for them, what didn't work well for them, where they think, hey, I would love to have some more information on this. So, you know, maybe there's a, maybe there's a, a second edition that would incorporate some of your listeners stories. So, so I would love to hear from, you know, I would love to hear from others. And you know, the last thing I will say is dream big and believe that it can happen, because it can.

Theresa Hubbard [01:02:53]:
Yeah. Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking we could do a process with our groups of people around Linda's vision board. Process.

Walker Bird [01:03:05]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:05]:
And then we can give you feedback.

Linda Howard [01:03:09]:
Yes, I would love, you know, I would to love, love to get that feedback. I, you know, I also do retreats and, you know, and I'm open to joining other people's retreats, like if, you know, you're doing a retreat or, you know, anyone's doing a retreat out there to reach out to me and, you know, and I would love to participate in that as well.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:29]:
Yeah. That's so nice.

Walker Bird [01:03:31]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:32]:
We love your trip too, Linda.

Linda Howard [01:03:36]:
Those. Maybe I'll come to Oregon.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:38]:
Yes, exactly.

Linda Howard [01:03:40]:
Exactly.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:41]:
We're having our first Oregon retreat in two weeks.

Linda Howard [01:03:44]:
I know, I saw that. I saw that. And I was like, oh, that's great. Right? You're doing one in December as well, right?

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:51]:
Yeah, we're doing one in December that will be here in Missouri and that's for, yeah. Mental health professionals. And then we'll be working on what our retreat series looks like next year. Dates and places and. But we are so excited. The house is, is, should be completely done this week.

Linda Howard [01:04:10]:
So the one in Oregon.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:11]:
The one in Oregon. Yeah.

Linda Howard [01:04:12]:
Okay. So it looked great. It looked great. Yes. Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:16]:
Yeah, we're really excited. Yay.

Walker Bird [01:04:18]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:20]:
Beautiful space.

Walker Bird [01:04:22]:
It is. Energy's great.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:23]:
Yeah, it is. Yeah. Good, good, good. Okay, well, so good, Linda, thanks.

Linda Howard [01:04:29]:
Likewise. My pleasure. And I look forward to talking, talking to you again soon.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:34]:
Yeah.

Linda Howard [01:04:35]:
Okay. All right, take care.

Walker Bird [01:04:36]:
Byebye.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:37]:
Bye. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.