What 100 Episodes Have Taught Us | Theresa & Walker Reflect with Mandy Froehlich

Walker Bird [00:00:00]:
Keep going. Damn journey.

Mandy Froehlich [00:00:07]:
I really love that you say that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:08]:
It's very.

Mandy Froehlich [00:00:09]:
I'm like, thank you.

Walker Bird [00:00:10]:
Sometimes I really mean it. Yeah. You know, it. Growth is hard. It just is. And not growing is hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:25]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:00:27]:
And so choose your heart, I guess. And it doesn't mean that it's suffering. What I think is. Is learning to adopt a different point of view, which is hard, is teaching me. Right. This is a great opportunity to learn something new. And I can say that. And then I'll fall back into damn journey, you know, and then I come back around.

Walker Bird [00:00:52]:
And I think that the more work you do, the more frequent that ability to shift back out of the damn journey feeling is. It's just more present. So I. It just. And like I said, the alternative of no growth. I'd probably be dead, honestly, if I had not changed.

Mandy Froehlich [00:01:20]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:01:20]:
And I. Well, it's not probably. I really think I would be. Literally, I would have offed myself or some other disease would have finished me off. My inner knowing. Empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:02]:
Well, hello. Today is our hundredth episode. And now I need to look at the camera. I need to look at the camera. And we want to welcome our guest, Mandy Froehlich. Mandy was our first. First guest on our podcast, January of 2024. And so Walker and I thought it would be fun for Mandy to come on and ask us questions, because she says, I have questions.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:28]:
And so from a listener's perspective, we just thought it would be a great conversation. And so we didn't really script anything. Mandy had posted some questions online, and Walker prepared answers for that. But other than that, you're not supposed.

Mandy Froehlich [00:02:45]:
To rat me out.

Mandy Froehlich [00:02:48]:
Now she's going to change the questions.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:55]:
He's prepared.

Walker Bird [00:02:57]:
I just put him away.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:58]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:02:59]:
Okay.

Mandy Froehlich [00:03:01]:
Well, I first wanted to say thank you for both of you to just jump out on the limb and start the podcast. I am an avid listener, and so one day I was like, I have a lot of questions for you. I bet other people have a lot of questions, so. And I'm a curious person, so this shouldn't be too hard, but my first question is, what is your favorite podcast episode and why?

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:27]:
Go ahead.

Walker Bird [00:03:28]:
Oh, no, I'll let you go first.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:33]:
What is my favorite podcast episode?

Walker Bird [00:03:36]:
So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:43]:
It's hard because I could answer that from so many perspectives, but if I think about it from a self growth perspective, me singing the lullaby I wrote for my kids would have been my favorite just because that was. That was significant for me on a lot of levels to. To put that out there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:04:10]:
That's great.

Walker Bird [00:04:11]:
Nice one.

Mandy Froehlich [00:04:11]:
Yeah, I didn't see that coming.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:14]:
I like it. What about you.

Walker Bird [00:04:19]:
Two? I've got two.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:21]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:04:25]:
I liked man versus Bear. It's also one of the hardest episodes and it's because it shows. I like surprises with my predisposed thinking. And the first time she mentioned that was maybe a week before. And I was so certain that what a topic that was going to be just to be 100 truthful about it. And I got my eyes open a lot throughout the whole episode and so hard. But also one of my favorite because it just is a really good example of being curious and also appreciative when we learn something new. And that was a big one.

Walker Bird [00:05:17]:
It was very emotional for her. There was a lot of trauma associated with it that I just, frankly, as a man, did not appreciate, period.

Mandy Froehlich [00:05:27]:
So, yeah, I like that. I like listening to that. It was cool to see the transformation over the whole hour. And I don't think you are alone in your initial thought, just from your possession position, talking to other men and kind of having the same, just limited perspective.

Walker Bird [00:05:46]:
I was cool.

Mandy Froehlich [00:05:47]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:05:48]:
Defensive. It's like, seriously, why would you consider me more of a threat than a grizzly bear? And now I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.

Mandy Froehlich [00:06:00]:
Okay. So kind of along that, what have you learned the most since embarking on this journey with the podcast? Related to the podcast? Maybe it's somebody you interviewed or even just putting together a podcast yourself or an online learning course or, I don't know, anything that you're like, wow, if I wouldn't have done this, if I wouldn't have taken the step to do the podcast, I wouldn't have learned this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:30]:
Well, that is a really big question because I'm like, oh, there is so much. Do you want to start with that one?

Walker Bird [00:06:45]:
Uh, sure. Teresa does most of the production, so I don't have to worry about that. You know, I try to help out when I can, but I haven't had to go through those pains other than being along. And also, I have learned from a growth perspective. I started this just by wanting to support Teresa, and it's something that she wanted to do. And because she wanted to do it, I was like, sure, I'll. I'll do that with you. Even though I didn't want to have personal conversations, etc.

Walker Bird [00:07:24]:
In front of thousands of people. But it is. I've grown through that and I feel like, aside from the production piece, that I have a meaningful role, that I have important things to share just by being vulnerable and being honest and imperfect. So I. I feel like I'm finding, and still finding a voice in that respect and stepping in to being a partner with her in it, rather than just supporter. So that's been really. It's been a really nice thing and gives more meaning to my existence, frankly.

Mandy Froehlich [00:08:09]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:08:11]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:08:11]:
I can say from a listener's perspective, it's nice to have your perspective, you know, the dynamics and even the honest conversations that you guys have. Like you said, just the example and the vulnerability, I think it's really awesome and it adds a lot of layers to the podcast.

Walker Bird [00:08:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, it's hard and sometimes I'll say things that I'm afraid that will offend people, etc, and Teresa talks me into leaving those in. I mean, we have really only cut maybe a couple of things ever other than trimming, you know, the front and the back end, but being learning to be brave in that respect. And the part about, well, you may not like me and I can be okay with that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:57]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:58]:
So. But it doesn't mean it's not scary in the process, you know. So anyway, lots of growth, I guess, is what I would say overall.

Mandy Froehlich [00:09:06]:
Awesome. Very cool.

Walker Bird [00:09:08]:
How about you?

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:09]:
I would say lots of growth as well. I think most of us struggle to some degree with hearing our own voice or seeing ourselves on video. And, you know, for me, that came immediately because I was doing the production and so it really wasn't. I mean, I suppose there was choice. I could have just been like, forget it. But it really has been a growth process in me learning to accept more of myself. So my voice, how I appear, my thoughts, you know, what I share. It has been really helpful for that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:01]:
Yeah. Our relationship, you know, we. It's interesting because what it makes me think of is, you know, the course that we created, you know, it's. It's a lot. You know, it's like a graduate level relationship course, and I think everybody could benefit from it. What I know from feedback we've gotten from people is it's like, wow, I thought we talked about things until I took the course. And then it's like, oh, we actually don't talk about much, but we think we do. And so even for us, whether it's the podcast topics, create an opportunity for us to talk about things that we wouldn't normally talk about, but they're important to us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:49]:
You know, if we go even with the man versus Bear episode and I shared with Walker at the end. I've never said this to you, but. Right. And it offered him more perspective, you know, on who I am and what's in my mind and on my heart. And so that piece, I think, is really valuable. Doing the course in and of itself, it's just like a lot of us, you know, and our thoughts and how we engage with each other in the course. Putting it on paper was. Was interesting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:36]:
Right. Like, there's the way of being. And then. Then it's like, well, how do you.

Mandy Froehlich [00:11:40]:
How do you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:40]:
How do you talk about that? And then how do you write about that? And then how do you help people to learn from that? Right. Like, it was. It was a lot. So. There's so many things, Mandy, that I feel like have added, you know, to our lives and our relationship, and I know it doesn't always work out that way for people. I'm not saying that. That it's going to do that for everyone, but for us, it has been.

Mandy Froehlich [00:12:07]:
So I think that's awesome to hear you say that. You're having conversations that you maybe wouldn't have had. I remember when you. Before you even started the podcast, and you guys were playing around with the equipment, and you're like, we just turned them on just to. To play with it, and you had a conversation. You know, you had the earphone, the headphones on, and you were just kind of in it. You know, there's no distractions, and it kind of feels like you've been able to complete. Cultivate that over the last almost two years now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:35]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:12:35]:
Which is really cool because it's this ongoing conversation, and it's neat that you are like, that's still really valuable and was helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:42]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:12:43]:
So in that regard, I love when Walker talks about the DM journey because it's very relatable. You know, I remember talking to you. You know, I. I feel like I said this at one point, or at least I thought it of the damn journey. I can relate to that. Like, this is exhausting. And at one point, Teresa, you said to me, what? Well, we can't always be mindful. We can't always do all the things.

Mandy Froehlich [00:13:05]:
Number one, do you still feel that way? Number because maybe it's changed because it's been a long. It's been a while. And do you take breaks from the. This whole podcast is surrounded by growth and, and how to, you know, information. And it's very helpful, but on a real perspective, you know. And because you guys are so authentic, do you take a little break? Are you like, I don't feel like growing today. I want to take a nap.

Mandy Froehlich [00:13:38]:
I don't want to do, you know, because I can say, you know, for myself, it is like I just want to like relax for the month of September. You know, I just kind of gave myself like, I'm just going to like.

Mandy Froehlich [00:13:48]:
Not do, you know, it's not going to be forever. But do you guys do that or do you find that where you are? You don't really need to because it doesn't take as much effort the further down the road you are.

Walker Bird [00:13:59]:
Are.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:00]:
Great question. You want to go first?

Walker Bird [00:14:04]:
Oh, absolutely.

Mandy Froehlich [00:14:05]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:14:06]:
Because I have views about you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:12]:
Let's go.

Walker Bird [00:14:14]:
It's not a bad thing. We're just very different in that regard. It absolutely. I need breaks. And there will be days when we come over, she wants to do. And I'm just like, I can't, you know, I'll come over and try and we may get started. I'm just like, I am not. It is not going to go well if I keep trying this, you know, I do the little T.

Walker Bird [00:14:39]:
Rex arms.

Mandy Froehlich [00:14:40]:
You know.

Walker Bird [00:14:43]:
And she's really cool about that. It's like, okay, well, you know, because we've got a production schedule, to get to 100 episodes takes a lot of work. Yeah, but those are just like on a day to day basis that may come up. I would say 98% of the time I'm ready to go. But what I believe in any personal growth journey is it's just like planting seeds, you know, and, or life there. You have to respect cycles of nature and cycles of our experience similarly. Right. Which is there's fall, there's winter, spring and summer.

Walker Bird [00:15:23]:
And if, if, if we're constantly going to the next retreat, constantly going to the next seminar, I think that we have diminishing returns on the growth factor because there's no time for letting that, you know, germinate or grow or, or, you know, get planted. It's just, you're blocking the path. My opinion.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:49]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:50]:
And so. Absolutely. And I'd like to be more intentional about it. And then my observation, unrequested, is that Theresa has a really hard time shutting off. She just is just how she was born, how she was raised, which is always, always, always doing. And she gets so much done. It's amazing. And sometimes I have to say, we are going on a break.

Walker Bird [00:16:17]:
It's. When we went to Esalen, she was about to pop. I'm like, we've got to go somewhere. How about this? And she was her own. So when she needs another one, you know, we need to go do that again. And so hopefully you're taking this in the way that it's intended, because she's lovely in so many ways. It's just she doesn't, I don't think, gives herself enough of a break. And it's just out of giving honestly to others.

Walker Bird [00:16:46]:
She gives and gives and gives.

Mandy Froehlich [00:16:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:16:48]:
So let's.

Mandy Froehlich [00:16:49]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:16:49]:
Don't want to break, babe. Oh. What are the tears?

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:05]:
I think mostly just that you see it, that you can say it, that you want me to take a break as opposed to taking advantage of how. How hard I work. I think, you know, you asked about, you know, taking a break. I think it is important. I'm very aware of, like, the need for that. I'm looking for my Kleenex. I got it.

Mandy Froehlich [00:18:07]:
I got it.

Mandy Froehlich [00:18:09]:
That's okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:14]:
I found it. So what I would say, Mandy, is that I think my recovery time is quicker. It's not that I don't need a break. I just think that what I know is, you know, we're going to leave next Wednesday, and we're going to head to Oregon to get ready for the retreat. And what I know is that week of Walker and I, you know, getting the house ready, which isn't just getting the house ready for you guys to come, it's creating space together and something we love, you know, doing. And we work really well together in that, you know, we have nice vision together. And so, you know, for me, what I know is, is that that week will be what I need. Like, I already know it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:18]:
Like, I know that that's what I need. And. And I will be good. Like, that will be my reset, you know, and that may not, you know, be what Walker's process, you know, is for himself. But, you know, we're just different that way. You know, going to Esalen last year was that, you know, process for me. Um, I do think I need it, you know, more often. But, you know, I'm still, you know, Walker and I are together, but we, you know, he has his bills.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:50]:
I have my bills. Right. I have four children. I have, you know, one that's finishing, one just finished college, one's finishing college, one's getting ready to start college. Like, it's not, you know, my life isn't inexpensive. You know, the podcast is expensive. I mean, people, you know, they don't know, right? Like, all that goes into, like, trying to create something like this, and, you know, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't have the time to do it, nor the desire to have to do all the things some podcasters do, which is to create everything.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:26]:
Like, my brain would not find that part interesting. And so. So for me, there's always the balance about, you know, like, what time, what amount of time can I take off, right. So that I, you know, feel like everything's okay in that area. I do think that I know this. I don't know if I'm gonna. I'm just trying to figure out how I want to say this. I value downtime differently than I used to, and so it's.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:13]:
I don't. I do feel like I can give more. I know that I can give more. I give more now than I have ever given. I don't feel like that it wears me down more. I just think, truly, for me, the break is just. What helps me get more clear is, like, there's a different part of my brain that can engage if I can take a break. And so that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:50]:
And that I find valuable. Like, we're trying to figure out, what does 2026 look like, right? And I'm like, yeah, right.

Walker Bird [00:21:58]:
It looks awesome.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:59]:
It does. But we haven't made any decisions, you know, we've just talked about, like, you know, what about this? What about that? What about this? And for me, what I. What I know is in order for me to get clear in regards to that, I need that time, you know, in Oregon, to just step away, create. Create the space in the home, which then will, you know, allow me to get more clear about, you know, what else is coming next. So. So I just think it's different, but I do. I. I can do more because I feel more aware of myself and more grounded and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:43]:
But I'm also trying to find the balance, like, and. And it's really. I think my desire has changed.

Mandy Froehlich [00:22:50]:
Like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:51]:
Oh, I really desire more of that. Like, going to Esalen and sitting in the tubs. And our goal is to have those tubs at our house, you know, not. You know what I mean?

Walker Bird [00:23:02]:
Perfect.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:05]:
So probably not when you're there in two weeks, but in. In, you know, hopefully next year they will be there because it's, you know, my body likes nature. All of our bodies like nature. Some of us are more allergic to things, but, you know, it is. That's powerful. Yeah. So did I answer your question?

Mandy Froehlich [00:23:29]:
Yeah, you did. And what would you say to somebody who's listening that you know, is trying and they're getting started and they're. They're getting exhausted by it? Or can you see what you went through in the early years and how it evolved to now where you don't need the breaks? And maybe what I'm hearing you say is it's because you're living your purpose and it's fulfilling and that's cup filling instead of energy training. But was it always that way? Has it evolved, like for both of you? You know, when it began to now. So you kind of answered like now. But what would you say to somebody who feels like the road is very long and tiring and the journey is heavy because when you get started, it really can be sure and. Or, sorry, I have a lot of questions. Pick what you want to answer.

Mandy Froehlich [00:24:24]:
What got you started on the journey? You know, was there no choice or was it like a choice? And so the evolution and the beginning of the journey and if somebody was. Is there, what would you say to them?

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:39]:
So for me, it was pain, really what I was aware of. If I go back to when I stepped into this, I would have been probably almost 30, so 25 years ago, I was just in so much emotional pain. Like, I had a very specific view of what I thought relationship was and it wasn't that. And I was confused and felt helpless and hopeless. And it's like something has to be different. Something has to be different. So that's really when I started the journey of trying to understand people and myself more. I don't know directly.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:36]:
And what I would say is, for me, I just never stopped. It was like at some point I was like, oh, I think this is actually the rest of my life. Like, I don't think that there's. I don't think I'm going to go to therapy and like they're going to have the answer. I mean, I think that was it initially, but then I was like, sometimes they don't have a fucking clue what to tell you. Right? And I recognize that, you know, myself as a clinician now. I was not a clinician when I started. I was like, oh, I think this is the rest of my life.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:05]:
Because this is really complex, you know, really understanding why I do anything, anything was like, wow, there's a lot that feeds into that. So I had that awareness and then pain in the process. Like, wow, this is so much. I need to take a break. You know, I need to not read another book. I need to not go on retreat right now. I just need to practice really, like on the daily. What does this, you know, look like?

Mandy Froehlich [00:26:39]:
But.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:40]:
And then I changed. And then my goal, my life goal became healthy relationship. Recognizing that that is the most important thing to me. And I am going to never stop trying to figure that out. As hard as it is, as complex as it is, as messy as it is, I'm never going to stop trying to figure it out. And that was motivating. I didn't know at, you know, that there was freedom on the other side. I just kept hoping, you know, like, please, like there has to be, there has to be, there has to be.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:16]:
And then realizing that there was learning to. To choose myself, understanding my codependency, you know, where I was, you know, not allowing growth in relationship because I was trying to manage growth in relationship. You know, if this person just did this, it would be better, you know, so a lot of allowing. Yeah. And I can, I can, I can see clearly the growth piece. I think it's something that I can do well as a therapist is like, well, I can see how much you've grown. You know, I can look at like when I first met you to today and let me just start listing out the things. And so I think I have that, you know, ability to be like, oh, well, that's how I used to do that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:12]:
And that was helpful. You know, this, this feels more integrous to myself. I'm not waking up in the middle of the night worried I'm not having a hard time falling asleep, worried I'm not regretting, you know, like, so there were things that I could, that I could see. These are changes happening in my life and in my relationships that were just more motivation to just keep going.

Mandy Froehlich [00:28:40]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:42]:
Yeah. So what about you?

Walker Bird [00:28:47]:
Keep going Damn Journey.

Mandy Froehlich [00:28:54]:
I really love that you say that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:55]:
It's very.

Mandy Froehlich [00:28:56]:
I'm like, thank you.

Walker Bird [00:28:57]:
Sometimes I really mean it. Yeah. You know, it. Growth is hard. It just is. And not growing is hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:13]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:29:14]:
And so choose your heart, I guess. And it doesn't mean that it's suffering. What I think is, is learning to adopt a different point of view, which is hard, is teaching me. Right. This is a great opportunity to learn something new. And I can say that and then I'll fall back into damn Journey, you know, and then I come back around and I think that the more work you do, the more frequent that ability to shift back out of the damn journey. Feeling is it's Just more present. So I.

Walker Bird [00:29:55]:
It just. And like I said, the alternative of no growth. I'd probably be dead, honestly, if I had not changed.

Mandy Froehlich [00:30:07]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:08]:
And I. Well, it's not probably. I really think I would be. Literally, I would have offed myself or some other disease would have finished me off. So, you know, it all that really started with interstitial cystitis and then cancer. And I'm still dealing with this cystitis, but cancer, you know, they caught it early, just was one of those things. And so. But I just.

Walker Bird [00:30:38]:
That I believe 100 is because I just kept eating all the bad stuff and stuffing it down and never working on myself to realize that, you know, if you keep living that way that you're not going to get a stay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:55]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:30:56]:
So you feel like your body was the main.

Walker Bird [00:31:00]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:31:02]:
Turning point. The body was talking more than your thought of the pain. I mean, it. It's interesting how it's both pain, but it's different from what I'm hearing. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:15]:
Well, yeah. The battle between the mind and the body.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:18]:
Mind.

Mandy Froehlich [00:31:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:20]:
And it's still going on for me. You know, I still am dealing with the. The autoimmune stuff, but I'm not stopping. And I've got big plans, I think, and so I'm not stopping.

Mandy Froehlich [00:31:33]:
Yeah. I think it's cool to hear you say that because there's so many people that have autoimmune that have. Their body is talking to them in ways that it can be. It sounds like your body was talking so loudly you could not ignore. You know, there's a lot of people, their body's talking and they could ignore it for a while or kick the can, you know, and it sounds like you got to a place where you were like, I. I have to change some. Something has to give.

Walker Bird [00:32:01]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:32:02]:
And.

Walker Bird [00:32:02]:
But it's, you know, it's not a magic pill. That's why it's the damn journey some days. Right. Because we make all this progress in the. Then, you know, and then we roll back down the hill or whatever. And, you know, I haven't rolled all the way back down, but sometimes pretty far. And then just, you know, find another path and keep coming back. And so my body is still speaking, but I'm doing a lot better job listening to, you know, this isn't working for me, you know, and so I'm still working on finding my purpose.

Walker Bird [00:32:34]:
So I've got a lot of discovery to do. But it's exciting space to be in as opposed to fear space.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:41]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:32:43]:
Have you ever felt confused or overwhelmed in relationships. Theresa and I have come up with a free mini course that we think will really help you out with a lot of the common relationship experiences so that you can improve your communication skills with all of the people in your life and really make a change for the better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:59]:
Yeah, we really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn healthy relationship skills so that we can get through life having a good healthy relationship skill experience. So click the link, put your email in, you'll get the PDF, spend a few hours working on it and please let us know what your experience is. We know it will benefit you in some way. Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:33:23]:
Thank you.

Mandy Froehlich [00:33:25]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:26]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:33:26]:
I thought that was pretty good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:27]:
Okay, sounds good. Okay, check, check.

Mandy Froehlich [00:33:31]:
That's really cool just to hear you guys reflect on the beginning because I think so many people can relate. Fast forward to now. What have you been learning lately? Like, if you were to like first thing that comes to your mind some just doesn't have to be anything big. But like, what are you learning right now within the last month or week or any big lesson or any big insight or aha. That you're like, wow, I see this, I know this, or, or whatever it.

Walker Bird [00:34:02]:
Is.

Mandy Froehlich [00:34:04]:
You go.

Walker Bird [00:34:14]:
That'S a big question.

Mandy Froehlich [00:34:15]:
It is a big question.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:19]:
I would say what comes to mind first is my role as parent and believing, you know, if I go back to like the integrity piece and healthy relationship and you know, recognizing that, you know, I have as a parent have changed so much in the last 30 years, it's crazy. And, and then the letting go of that, I, I mean, I'll be involved in there and you know, a mentor if asked, but really trusting the effort that I put into being a parent and not expecting, not shaming myself for not having done it perfectly, I would say is really where I am mostly, you know, right now is. Have been working on that. There's a book that I'm listening to called the Unshaming Way. And we just interviewed Dr. Bedrick and he'll be on next week I think. And just that, you know, high that that significant level of awareness of how shame is so present in us almost all day, every day in our thoughts, let alone the words that come out of our mouth and how we treat our body and how we treat others and you know, so that, you know, as I've been listening to that book over the last month, yeah, that's been really helpful. Hard when you just, I mean, I know it like, I know it because I work with it in the therapy room all the time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:09]:
But then to hear it, the way he talks about it is just like, oh, it's so heavy. It is so much. It's so much. So that's. For me.

Mandy Froehlich [00:36:25]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:36:25]:
I wanted to look into his course, actually. I think it'd be really good. For me, just past trauma with shame is a big deal, and it's common. So. Yeah. Well, for me, I've been seeing a new therapist for the last, I guess, this year, and she started me on a keto diet plan. That was her first recommendation, was to do that, you know, to help with brain fog and fatigue and those sorts of things. And so that's been a big thing for me this year because I'm down 60 pounds.

Walker Bird [00:37:02]:
Yeah. But also, the work that we're doing around, I think it's. Is it internal family systems?

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:10]:
Ifs.

Walker Bird [00:37:10]:
Yeah. And it's. For me, it's parts work. But you can describe it a lot of different ways. But there's a real growth piece for me around. And it's a little scary, you know, because when you start talking about parts work, it feels like. What do you call it? Did yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:33]:
Multiple personalities or Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Walker Bird [00:37:36]:
Disorder. Yeah. You know, I'm like, do I really want to say this? Because it sounds like somebody else is talking, and that seems like a dangerous place to, you know, go. She's like, it's okay, you know, I. Touching you. Just say it. But it's been really powerful, Mandy. And there's.

Walker Bird [00:37:54]:
I. I. What I discovered was, for me, what I call a core wound. And that's not something that she came up with. Maybe I heard it somewhere along the spectrum of, you know, the work that I've done over the last eight years, but finding that core wound, and it goes all the way back to being a baby. But. And I. I had talked about it before in therapy, but I never really recognized what that was, you know, and so I recognized, you know, I was kind of the save the marriage baby.

Walker Bird [00:38:29]:
And so when it didn't save the marriage, I don't think that I was wanted. And so I have. There's, you know, a lot of. And I've talked about it in a couple of episodes, I think just about, you know, the story was being put in the closet in my crib, you know, and I was told that as a funny story, but it's really not funny. And I shook the crib so much that the crib collapsed. And so that abandonment piece for me and the acceptance and shame associated with that is like a core piece. And being able to recognize And I'm going deep into my therapy stuff here, but it's. It is like, you know, when you.

Walker Bird [00:39:17]:
Epiphany was the word that came to me when you were asking the question. And so when you recognize what parts of yourself get put into place to. To protect that baby, right? The abandoned baby. And so there's a part of me that is. I call the wet blanket that puts the baby to sleep to protect it. Right. As if he never came here. And then there's another part that's like this rage piece that's angry to protect the baby and lashing out, and so that those parts, you know, and the blanket comes on when the rage piece comes on, so.

Walker Bird [00:39:58]:
Oh, that's dangerous. We can't feel that way. We can't tell people what we really think, all that stuff. So better go to sleep. And so I'm. I'm in the midst of the work on that, and that's huge after eight years of therapy and 57 years on the planet, you know, so anyway, it's a big piece, and that's part of the damn journey, which is. It's no fun to talk about those things in therapy or anywhere else, really. But if I don't.

Walker Bird [00:40:32]:
If I don't go there, then I'm. I'm stealing my future from myself. There you go.

Mandy Froehlich [00:40:41]:
Thank you for sharing that. Well, what came up for me when you're talking about that was an episode where somebody asked you. I can't remember exactly what did you go skydiving? Oh, okay.

Walker Bird [00:40:53]:
220 pounds.

Mandy Froehlich [00:40:55]:
Okay. Okay. Well, it was the episode where they said you like to be a thrill seeker or something like that. And I. I can appreciate, just as how you're explaining that when I was listening to that episode, it was just really helpful when you go through the process and you're kind of explaining your observer and what you said and like, should I. You know, you're kind of going back through it. It's so helpful. I just feel like the.

Mandy Froehlich [00:41:19]:
The whole podcast in general, you guys are so vulnerable in talking about your process. I can personally relate to a lot of it where, like, oh, wow, that. Oh, somebody said that. And I reacted like, whoa, what's going on? You know, it's so helpful to hear somebody say that and go through the. The parts and then to be able to explain it. And it. There's like, another level of understanding even when you're talking through it. Sometimes I hear in your conversations where you're like, well, I never told you this story, you know, and you're like.

Mandy Froehlich [00:41:51]:
Oh, I always love that. It's like, oh, here we go.

Mandy Froehlich [00:41:55]:
What is it?

Mandy Froehlich [00:41:57]:
We're all learning. I think that's really cool. I knew you guys had something up.

Mandy Froehlich [00:42:03]:
Your sleeves because you're always learning and there's always some growth piece which is really insightful, whether small or large, I think is really cool. Well, so on that topic, what is your, what's your. If you were to say, I'm actually really curious this answer, it's not anything big, but what's your favorite book? If you were like one or two books that you're like, this has really helped me. Wow. What would it be?

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:33]:
That's so hard because I'm thinking, man, I have a lot of books, but.

Mandy Froehlich [00:42:37]:
If you're like, if I hadn't read this book, I wouldn't have known this.

Mandy Froehlich [00:42:40]:
And it wouldn't have taken me here.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:47]:
So interesting. So I would say for me, the Body Keeps the Score was very helpful, though I think for a lot of people it can be pretty overwhelming and, and, and dense. And so the book I am recommending right now is the Unshaming Way, because I think it is much more. How I was explaining to David was that it's. He's not just talking about it, he's demonstrating it. And so I think, and that's our goal is with the podcast, is to show it right. Us having these conversations. And so, you know, David sharing those client sessions, you know, obviously with permission, I think is really, really helpful for us to see how our trauma impacts our body in a very different way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:39]:
But the body keeps the score. I think, really when it came out, I mean, I was already trained in hypnotherapy and psychodrama. And so I had like a, a lived sense. But having that when it came out in words that I could like, say, hey, this is, this is a hard read, but it's going to be very educational. Was helpful. Who? And then I really. The Michael Singer book, you know, the Untethered Soul.

Walker Bird [00:44:14]:
You got me. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:17]:
And, and, and I think it' wasn't like, oh, my observer is all developed now.

Mandy Froehlich [00:44:22]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:23]:
It was still a nice, like, language, like, I was able to identify. I was able to name this process that I experienced. I'm like, oh, that's that. I can call that that. Right? My observer, my observer. And so I would say that was really helpful again, having, like, the language. So what about you?

Walker Bird [00:44:43]:
Untethered Soul? Yeah, without a doubt. It's just, it was the first one that came to mind and I read a lot But I didn't understand witness consciousness until I read that. And I think we did a book.

Mandy Froehlich [00:44:58]:
Well, I was gonna ask you if that was the first time you had read the book.

Walker Bird [00:45:01]:
It was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:02]:
It was not for me. It was not.

Mandy Froehlich [00:45:03]:
It was not. Was it during COVID We had a. A group. It was on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I don't know if it was 2020 or before that. It might have just been. Anyway, around that time, it was probably 2020.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:15]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:17]:
I. I talk a lot and throughout the podcast about the. The pause between stimulus and response. And that languaging came later when we did the. The training for the mindfulness meditation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:33]:
Oh.

Walker Bird [00:45:34]:
Training program with Jack Cornfield and Tara Brock. But in any event, Michael Singer laid the groundwork for understanding that more. And that pause, it makes a huge difference in our lives. And to get that pause, you know, when you can do witness consciousness work, helps you understand what the pause is all about. And that pause makes me a better human being, at least. I've made choices versus I just acted. Right.

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:08]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:46:09]:
In so many ways, it crosses the spectrum of all of our behavior. I'm not saying I'm always successful, but.

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:15]:
No, yeah. It's helpful to hear you talk through some sequences that you've, you know, from being in the courtroom to just on the street, you know, in different situations. It's very helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:29]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:29]:
And I just to walk through that because I don't think everybody even realizes that that even exists. So like you said, it's like. And I remember reading that book and it was like, right.

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:40]:
Like, I need to read it again.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:43]:
Well, and I think having conversation like we did about it when we did that was helpful too, because then we could all just share, you know, what did that mean? What do you think that means?

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:55]:
I don't think I talked a lot.

Mandy Froehlich [00:46:56]:
Though, because I was like, I am so confused.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:59]:
I mean, I just.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:00]:
I was very early, early on, and.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:02]:
I hadn't done all the neurofeedback yet. Like, you know, just. It's amazing to see. Like, oh, this makes so much sense now. But, yeah, I love that, the process, you know, for me, it was like, I have a voice in my head say, yes.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:18]:
Screaming, whoa, who are you? You know, wherever you start, like, it's just cool that he's is piecing it together like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:29]:
For sure he is.

Walker Bird [00:47:30]:
But it's a trip when you first start learning about it.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:33]:
I'm going around asking people, what do you hear voices in your head, you know?

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:37]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:39]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:41]:
Well, I didn't mean Those voices.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:47]:
What would you say is the most.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:49]:
Uncomfortable podcast that you've ever done?

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:54]:
Was there one that you were like.

Walker Bird [00:47:56]:
Oh.

Mandy Froehlich [00:47:58]:
Either before, during, or after. I don't know if you. If there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:02]:
Or even.

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:02]:
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe there wasn't one.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:05]:
The most uncomfortable. I would say when my. The most uncomfortable for me was when we did our very first video interview and I forgot to hit record, and then I had to tell the person.

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:21]:
Oh, no, that we didn't have it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:23]:
Oh, yeah, that was uncomfortable.

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:26]:
And then you redid it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:27]:
Yeah. No, no, we didn't. We just.

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:29]:
We did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:29]:
We had it be audio instead.

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:31]:
Got it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:31]:
Because we didn't have it. We didn't. Yeah, we had the audio. We didn't have the video, so. Which is why I leaned forward about four minutes ago and checked your camera, because I was like, damn it, did I turn on man's camera?

Mandy Froehlich [00:48:45]:
So I have.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:46]:
I have a little bit of reaction. I'm always, like, checking everything.

Walker Bird [00:48:50]:
The blind interview. It's just us to talking.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:52]:
Right. That would be the most uncomfortable. Like, oh, now I have to tell her. Yeah, I didn't get that. We didn't get that. Anyway.

Walker Bird [00:49:02]:
Well, you got to do over. We just did a second episode with her because she came out with a new book.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:05]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:49:06]:
So we made sure that the camera.

Mandy Froehlich [00:49:09]:
Yeah, that's awesome.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:11]:
How about you.

Walker Bird [00:49:14]:
H. I would still have to come Back to Man vs. Bear.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:19]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:49:20]:
Yeah. Being that unaware was hard and being so certain in my unawareness, because I was certain. Like I said, this is bullshit, you know, and it's because of the defensiveness, but that's hard. And it's. It was concerning to me that the women listening to the show would be like, what an ass. And maybe they did. And. And frankly, in certain respects, I was.

Walker Bird [00:49:54]:
Because I did not understand. So that. That is uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable during. It was uncomfortable after to acknowledge that. But I'm glad I recognized the process. Just, you know, that just wasn't my experience, you know, and it's just so easy to. And it's a pretty good mirror for the world we have right now.

Walker Bird [00:50:20]:
We are so certain. Right.

Mandy Froehlich [00:50:23]:
Of.

Walker Bird [00:50:24]:
Of the justness of our position. And you would think I would know this after 30 years as a trial attorney. Right. That there's probably another perspective. But in any event, not comfortable even now talking about it. You know, I'm looking in your eyes like, is she like, yeah, that's right. Walk. We were thinking what a jerk you were.

Mandy Froehlich [00:50:50]:
No, because I think so many people can relate.

Mandy Froehlich [00:50:54]:
I really do. Like, Like I said, I talked to other people and they were like the same as you were at the beginning. It's the fact that you were able to have the conversation, be open, willing to shift and not stay within your position out of ego or, you know, whatever that is. It's. It's very hard to swing the pendulum to the other side and go, oh, yeah, like, how great is that? To model it.

Walker Bird [00:51:21]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:21]:
Being open to influence. Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [00:51:23]:
Open and humble. I mean, there's a lot of humility that you guys, you are very wise, but I think a lot of people are drawn to you because you're real people. And there's a certain humility about the two of you that's really relatable. I know. I appreciate it as well as your wisdom.

Mandy Froehlich [00:51:41]:
Always, always.

Mandy Froehlich [00:51:44]:
Oh, let's see here. I don't know. I have most valuable lesson. We talked about that. Is there any lesson that you feel like has been the most valuable? And it could be anything that comes to mind, really. Podcast related or not.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:12]:
Do you know?

Mandy Froehlich [00:52:13]:
No.

Walker Bird [00:52:17]:
Especially when you open it up to the entire 57 years I've been on the planet.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:23]:
What is my biggest. Yeah, I would say for me, I mean, when you said that, I was thinking, oh, to be curious. Stay curious. Stay, always stay curious. Yeah. When Walker and I were talking this morning, he was like, what's your favorite episode? I was like, I don't know that I have a favorite. And I was like, curiosity killed the cat. Because I think, you know, that's so important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:45]:
Is it the true. True. Because that's so important. Is it? It is what it is. I will fight no more forever. I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, like there's so much. But really none of that, none of it would be possible if we didn't stay curious. So for me, it's like, oh, it's so important that we can go back to that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:06]:
Even when we're feeling attacked and the want the desire to defend ourself or approve of point that we could step into curiosity.

Mandy Froehlich [00:53:17]:
I love that you said that because you were the first person that I can remember that gave me permission to be curious. I'm sitting here now asking a million questions. I have more that are coming as you're talking. And I've always been that way, you know, but not. I never felt like I had permission. Yeah. To be curious. And then it was okay to like, you know, ask more questions, you know, stop at some point because it could get annoying.

Mandy Froehlich [00:53:43]:
But, you know, I mean, I really.

Mandy Froehlich [00:53:45]:
Because I can and I Can have a conversation with people and I can just. I love asking them questions. I would rather ask them the questions than that, you know?

Mandy Froehlich [00:53:53]:
You know, because it's just.

Mandy Froehlich [00:53:54]:
It's fun to. To learn. Yeah. So I love that. I love that episode, too. What was it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:59]:
Curiosity Killed the Cat and Satisfaction. Satisfaction brought them product.

Mandy Froehlich [00:54:04]:
Yeah. Yep.

Walker Bird [00:54:07]:
Still have never heard that till that episode, anyway.

Mandy Froehlich [00:54:11]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:12]:
Yeah. I think being reminded, it's. It's just like the man versus Bear, but that's just one example. The lesson for me is that I. I don't always know what I think I know. And treating that as a gift when it comes is so much more adventurous. And so I do like being surprised. And we had a.

Walker Bird [00:54:34]:
We had the episode when I came back from the hike with my brother in, where I was all judgy about, you know, the female on the. On the hike, you know, from New York and all that. And I. I love being. Having my judgment thrown out the window. It's like, no, wrong.

Mandy Froehlich [00:54:54]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:54:54]:
And it's just a pleasure to. To have that happen. And sometimes, you know, your ego takes a ding in the process, but it really is a. It's a cool experience because it makes. It makes life so much more enjoyable when you can look at yourself and chuckle that you were so certain and, well, guess what? The universe is going to teach me something new today. I get taught a lot, Mandy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:21]:
I do.

Mandy Froehlich [00:55:22]:
Can totally relate to all of that. Oh, so much.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:25]:
That's so good.

Mandy Froehlich [00:55:27]:
Along those lines, in your awareness, what. What do you. This is a hard question to ask. I'm gonna word it in the right way as best as you are aware, right? Yes. What do you. If you could pinpoint any blind spot, do you have. Do you feel like there's anything that you're like. And that's hard because it's a blind spot, you know, but, like, is there ever, like, oh, there's something over there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:01]:
Sure.

Mandy Froehlich [00:56:01]:
I just don't want to look at it. I'm not that aware of it, but it's just like a little. Little hit of something that I want to avoid or what? Uncomfortable? I don't know. Whatever. Whatever comes up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:16]:
Anything come to mind? Go ahead.

Walker Bird [00:56:23]:
Blind spots are not comfortable to talk about.

Mandy Froehlich [00:56:26]:
We don't talk about.

Walker Bird [00:56:27]:
Gosh, mand. Delete this part. I don't. I mean, what comes to mind for me is just time management. I'm horrible at it, you know, and then if I don't manage my time well, then I'm avoidant, and it just makes it worse. So if I mean, that's one blind spot. Anger is another. So.

Walker Bird [00:57:03]:
But I think that I shame myself more over the time management. And like I said, so even at 57, it's hard to say, you know, it's like, come on, seriously. And you can't just own it now. Even after 100 episodes of my inner knowing now, sometimes I can't. I want to deny or blame and come up with excuses. So. Yeah, interesting. It really doesn't have anything to do with the podcast, but maybe it does.

Mandy Froehlich [00:57:31]:
Tell me more about time management. What do you mean by that?

Walker Bird [00:57:35]:
It's particularly with the lawyer work, just taking care of clients, you know, when they need to be taken care of and, you know, if they. I call it falling off the back burner of the stove, you know, and sometimes, you know, that when that happens, then I'm avoidant and then they get angry and, you know, all those things. And I don't want to be that way, and I don't want to be that way in handling anything. But it's just sometimes I cannot get to it all. Whether it's just poor time management or bit off more than I could chew.

Mandy Froehlich [00:58:10]:
Or.

Walker Bird [00:58:12]:
Physical problem, you know, whatever. I could come up with all kinds of excuses, but I'm trying to say, you know, I need to. I don't know, I shame myself. You've got to own it, you know, because I learned that playing football. No excuses.

Mandy Froehlich [00:58:23]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:24]:
Anyway, I'm kind of swimming in it now because it's a really hard question to answer, but if I was to, I don't know, feeling shame around that, maybe it's, I don't work as hard as you. I don't know. Gosh. Your turn. I'll come up with something really intelligent to say tomorrow. Why didn't I say that one?

Mandy Froehlich [00:59:02]:
That's a better blind spot.

Walker Bird [00:59:07]:
I'm sweating. Oh, God.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:17]:
Like, take it over, Tracy.

Walker Bird [00:59:18]:
No, it's okay. I'll just sit in it. You know, as I think about it, Mandy, since Teresa is pausing even longer, I think it's the. I think it's the self shaming piece, probably. That's the. That's behind it, you know, that I get into that and then it just cycles is probably what the. The truth is behind it because it's easy to do. And we were just.

Walker Bird [01:00:11]:
We were in Chicago over the weekend playing darts with my daughter and her lovely boyfriend, and I'd miss a shot or whatever, and I don't know what I was saying, but I must have been not being kind to myself because Teresa's like, you're really hard on yourself. Did you know that? And I think that's just an example of that goes on in the background with me still, despite doing work on myself for eight years, it still goes on all the time. So more work to do.

Mandy Froehlich [01:00:47]:
For sure.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:48]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [01:00:49]:
Thanks for that answer. Because I think that's hard to. Sometimes it's hard to pull back all the layers, even. I was thinking about one of your retreats. I think. What, didn't we do one on shadow work? Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, even, like, working on it.

Mandy Froehlich [01:01:05]:
Just even. And it can change, but I think that's cool to see it.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:10]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:01:13]:
Now it's your turn.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:17]:
Well, I'm just going to make sure we're good on time. Oh, yeah. We've got seven minutes. Okay. So go. I would say quickly. I am working on actively creating awareness in myself that when I'm in the therapy room, I do hold space. Like I just was, you know, and I'm fine sitting with that.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:48]:
I really want people to have the space to see where they can go, you know, as we just did with Walker. But sometimes that's not helpful for everybody. It's not helpful for everybody. For some people, my holding space feels judgy. It makes them really uncomfortable, like that I'm criticizing them or thinking negative things about them. And so I'm aware of that on a different level than I was before. And what I. What I want to do is figure out how to be comfortable directing them more to their body experience.

Theresa Hubbard [01:02:43]:
I mean, really, the. The book, the Unshaming Way, as I listened to him, you know, do these sessions, I'm like, that is a skill that he has that is so much more developed than mine. Told Walker that at the very beginning when I started reading it. And I just like that that is something that I don't feel like I know how to do well. I think I can hold space well and my energy is consistent and grounded. But there is a, like, a curious body inquiry piece that he does that I'm aware I do not know how to do that. And. And I can talk about the body, you know, like, where are you feeling that you know, what's happening for you? But very different, very different than he does.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:35]:
And there is a. There is a tenderness to the way he does it and a care that I think is like.

Walker Bird [01:03:44]:
Can really like him.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:45]:
Yeah. Which is, like, congruent with how I walk in the world. But there is, like, a part of me that's like. Like my brain goes a little Blank. When I think, you know, I had that happen yesterday, and I was like, where's the answer? And I really, literally couldn't find it, you know, and so recognizing. And I'll talk about that. Right. You know, we have rooms in our brain that have answers, and the answers aren't in there.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:12]:
It's just that the labels on the door, but you open the door and there's nothing in there. Like, that is how I feel around that. I do not know how to do it. Like, he does that. And I want to be able to. So I think I demonstrate care and nurturing in other ways. But there was. There's something about that that I feel like is.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:35]:
I want to. I want to access that part of me. It's in there. I just don't know where it is.

Mandy Froehlich [01:04:41]:
Yeah, that's really cool. I'm excited to listen to this podcast that's coming out.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:49]:
For sure. It's good. His material's good.

Mandy Froehlich [01:04:51]:
Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's very helpful. The very last question I have that you may not be able to elaborate on a lot, but feel like it's a good one to end on. Is there anything you can tell us about what is coming in 2026? Anything that you guys are. That you can say?

Mandy Froehlich [01:05:09]:
I. I realize there could be some things that are like, a big reveal or a secret, but is there anything.

Mandy Froehlich [01:05:16]:
That you feel like you could share with us about what's next?

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:22]:
Do you want to start?

Walker Bird [01:05:23]:
No, you can go ahead.

Mandy Froehlich [01:05:26]:
I don't know what we discussed.

Walker Bird [01:05:27]:
No, I do know. No, I do know.

Mandy Froehlich [01:05:30]:
I could be, like, jumping ahead, so.

Mandy Froehlich [01:05:32]:
But I am curious.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:33]:
No, I think it's. Yeah, no, no secrets. I think it's. You know, Mandy, I mean, this is part of it. Like, you know, we've talked about a lot of things, and there is a part of us that recognizes that, you know, the. The world and. And the world. I mean that literally.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:50]:
But also, you know, the United States specifically, I feel like, is in a huge transition. Whatever that is. I don't know. I mean, I have no idea. But I just. I know we're in it because we are all out of our patterns. And so, you know, what is that going to look like on the other side in reality? I think, you know, social media is going to change, you know, over the next 10 years. I don't know what it looks like, but, you know, I mean, young people aren't on Facebook much.

Theresa Hubbard [01:06:18]:
You know, our generation and older is. And so what does that look like? Is that generation continues to not be here. And how are we connecting? I feel like there is a pull to more in person things and what does that look like? And so we're trying to, like, we know we're going to do more retreats next year. We know that they're going to be at least in Oregon, potentially some other places too. We just don't know for sure yet. But we're trying to. We just know that the amount of growth that can happen when you are with a committed, smaller group of people and as you know, is powerful, you know, and we just keep wanting that for people. More freedom, more.

Theresa Hubbard [01:07:17]:
I don't know, like you just. That I always go back to the integrity, you know, I just want you to feel like you're living the life that is congruent and authentic to you and Walker and I, whatever, you know, it's. We understand, like we can sit with anybody, whatever their beliefs are, you know, and really just see their humanity. I mean, we are messy, messy beings. And so we talked about doing no small talk dinners, you know, where we have people come and it's, you know, there is no small talk. You know, what would that look like?

Mandy Froehlich [01:07:58]:
That sounds like a dream.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:02]:
And all the introverts show up. Because they don't have to. They don't have to.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:07]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:09]:
What does that look like? Right. And so, you know, we're.

Walker Bird [01:08:12]:
Well, we didn't say it's a no talk, right?

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:15]:
No, no, no. But maybe this is me, but I.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:18]:
Feel like the introverts are like, let's just get to the deep stuff.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:21]:
Like, get to the meat of it, you know, like, I don't care about the weather.

Walker Bird [01:08:25]:
Right.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:25]:
Who knows what that's happening.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:27]:
Exactly, exactly. Right. And no, no alcohol.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:30]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:31]:
I mean, like, you know, fully present sober going consciousness.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:34]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:35]:
Sober conscious, you know, and so we are. We're just trying to figure out what does that look like, you know, longer retreats, you know, we typically just do four days, but, you know, what would it look like for us to do a longer retreat?

Walker Bird [01:08:49]:
We're envisioning like a giant yurt.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:51]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:53]:
Fascinating.

Walker Bird [01:08:54]:
Yeah. For the gathering space.

Mandy Froehlich [01:08:56]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:08:56]:
I told Walker I won a big round table, like the Knights of the Round Table or King Arthur's Court or whatever.

Walker Bird [01:09:03]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:09:04]:
Can sit around with one of those, you know, those things that spin food, you know, like in the middle of the table and we can just.

Walker Bird [01:09:10]:
10Ft across.

Mandy Froehlich [01:09:11]:
Except it's 10ft across.

Walker Bird [01:09:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:09:12]:
Cool. So we're just trying to, you know, figure out like the community piece, you know, both in retreats and locally. Because I just think the reality is, is our human bodies need that. We need connected interaction. I just think we suffer so much because we may be around people, but we're not connected. And our body needs feedback and we need more positive feedback, not so much negative feedback. Whether that's relationships or, you know, news or social media or work or whatever. And so I just, I mean, from a body perspective, we need it.

Theresa Hubbard [01:09:55]:
We need it. And so just trying to figure out what does that look like. So no specifics, but we're working on it.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:04]:
Yeah, it's exciting.

Theresa Hubbard [01:10:06]:
Very cool. Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:07]:
Well, congratulations. Thanks.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:09]:
100 episodes. It's really cool to be here now.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:13]:
And then and in between list as a listener. So thank you guys so much for sharing and answering all my questions.

Walker Bird [01:10:20]:
Yeah, thanks for being such a supporter. We really appreciate you and we need to have you back on to talk about your growth.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:10:29]:
Maybe we should shoot for recording in December and do January because then that'll be two years. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz I'm guessing you have a lot to share that would be helpful for people to. To learn from your journey the last few years.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:45]:
Maybe so.

Theresa Hubbard [01:10:46]:
Maybe.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:46]:
Maybe.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:47]:
Yeah, I'm sure.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:50]:
Yeah.

Mandy Froehlich [01:10:50]:
It's just been a big experiment, so.

Theresa Hubbard [01:10:53]:
Yeah, right. That's a lot of permission for people to do that too. It is just a big experiment.

Mandy Froehlich [01:11:00]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:11:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you.

Mandy Froehlich [01:11:02]:
Yeah, thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:11:04]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.