How Convenience Is Rewiring Our Minds

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:00]:
Scrolling on your phone in the morning, at night sounds like a horrible idea. Horrible.

Walker Bird [00:00:06]:
And they know it, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:08]:
Oh, my God.

Walker Bird [00:00:09]:
But we know it too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:10]:
I know we do on some level, right? We do. But I think this is, like, bringing it to, like, a whole different level of awareness.

Walker Bird [00:00:19]:
You remember that there was a Netflix show or something else that we watched that you were resistant to because you were like, people need to take responsibility.

Walker Bird [00:00:31]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:59]:
Well, hello.

Walker Bird [00:01:01]:
Hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:04]:
So I'm trying to think. Do we have any announcements today? Our retreat in Oregon is full. I think we may have mentioned that we've got the one retreat for mental health professionals in December. If you. If you are a listening mental health professional or you know someone who is, or you want to gift the retreat to someone that you know, maybe that would be a lovely Christmas gift. It will be a just a good, restorative, nurturing time.

Walker Bird [00:01:40]:
Caring for the caretakers.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:41]:
Caring for them. Yeah, Yeah, I think it'll. I know it will be a lovely experience. So, anyway, just a thought. We're still working on adjusting to the new studio and we're still in our camp chairs, and we probably will be for another month or two because we have another.

Walker Bird [00:02:00]:
You find the right chairs.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's it. Yeah. Thanks for hanging in there with us while we rearrange and work on lighting. We think the lighting today is better than it was the last episode of Just you and I, so.

Walker Bird [00:02:18]:
Well, I thought I looked great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:20]:
You did. Your lighting actually was pretty good.

Walker Bird [00:02:25]:
It was crazy. I just don't understand. You know, you were lit up like a light bulb when we had the light on you and then we turned it into.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:32]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:33]:
Shadowy. I don't know, crazy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:37]:
Not. Not our. Not our expertise.

Walker Bird [00:02:40]:
Nope.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:40]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:41]:
Hopefully this is better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:42]:
Yeah, I hope so. So today I was thinking about, you know, a lot of different things come to me, whether I'm in session or just throughout the rest of the day. You know, that I value how amazing our brain and body is. And I often think that we don't give it enough attention, consideration, and seek to understand. I think there are, like, pockets of people that really delve in and explore. What are you laughing about?

Walker Bird [00:03:21]:
Just Polly Pocket Kingdom. Polly Pocket.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:26]:
Pockets of people, pockets of people. But I think. I think in general, I don't know that we think about how amazing our brain is. And so what came to mind for me that I thought would be interesting to explore was I'm trying to think how I want to put this. But does this world of convenience that we have created challenge our brain? And I think about probably not even, I don't know, 50, 60 years ago, maybe 50, maybe 40 years ago, it seemed like we were doing so many more things ourselves, you know, like when I was growing up, I don't know that we hired anyone to do anything, whether that was, you know, building the huge playhouse structure we had in the backyard or painting our house, which was two stories in the front, three stories in the back, fixing clogged pipes or whatever, like. And if we want to go back even farther than that, most of us, some of us still are, but not most of us. We're not living in houses that have thatched roofs that have to be taken care of in between every rainstorm. You know, we're.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:09]:
Most of us are not going out and, you know, cutting a winter supply of wood. Some people are, but not most of us. And what I'm curious about is what is that the overall impact on us and our life and our physical health, you know, not using our brain to even close of its full capacity, you know, does that contribute to the detox problems we have? I mean, I don't know. I'm not saying I know any of the detox problems, you know, like dementia and Alzheimer's.

Walker Bird [00:05:56]:
Oh, oh, sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:57]:
You know. You know, not just the foods we eat and the things we drink and the plastics and, you know, but, you know, our brain, like our muscles, learns with practice. And if we're not doing things that require our brain to use much of itself, what happens to our brain? You know, and so I don't. I think our brain was. Does, you know, evolved, designed, whatever you want to, however you want to look at it to be much more complex than the world we live in. Provides opportunity for a lot of people.

Walker Bird [00:06:43]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:44]:
So.

Walker Bird [00:06:44]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:45]:
Anyway, that's what I was thinking about. Yeah. What comes to mind?

Walker Bird [00:06:49]:
Nostalgia.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:50]:
Yeah. Tell me more.

Walker Bird [00:06:53]:
Well, it's so funny to be thinking I'm counting 44 years. That's 1985. And so I would have been a senior in high school in 1985, but I go back to junior high is where I went when you first started talking, because in junior high then it was mandatory that you took either shop class or home ec.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:07:20]:
Where they taught sewing and managing the household or shop class. I mean, I learned construction techniques. We built the side of a house with plumbing, electrical, roofing, siding, flooring, all of it. I mean, it was an amazing experience. And it was, you know, there was a purpose to that. There was, like you said, you know, a lot of people didn't. You just didn't hire people out. I mean, really rich people did, I guess, but most people, even my dad did a lot of home construction type of work, electrical things.

Walker Bird [00:08:01]:
And yeah, there was just a self sufficiency aspect to it that we've gone way away from with the advent of. Of the Internet. And that made me think about, you know, just how we. I love to. I love stories, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:18]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:08:19]:
And I like to watch shows, but I also like somebody to just tell me a story. And I was thinking, there's a massive difference between you show me and I see how you see it versus you tell me. And my brain has to come up with the images itself.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:38]:
Mm.

Walker Bird [00:08:40]:
And so I just think with the immediacy, the availability, all of those things that even, you know, because it's not like it was the Ancient Times, 1980. I know a lot's changed, but I don't know, maybe that's just my age. And anyway, I just. At least then, you know, there was a lot of board game playing. And I know just watching your son, you know, Luke, now he's playing Dungeons and Dragons, which. That is the sort of interaction where you're using imagination, you're making things up, your brain is working, versus somebody's just feeding you information where you're just, you know, it's kind of like eating a whole container of ice cream that you're not even aware of all the bites you're taking, just feeding it in.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:29]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:09:29]:
And there's a big difference. And whether that's contributing to Alzheimer's or other mental conditions or not, what I know is there's something more about using our brains in that way that has to be lesser. Now, we can talk in a lot of generalities because there's amazing things that the Internet provides, et cetera, if you're interactive with it. You know, for example, the way we've been using chat, GPT ends up, you know, remember, I was afraid of it at first, and I still am a little bit, but I use it extensively. And it's just. It's like having, you know, in a way, a mentor. But I'm also not just accepting carte blanche. Everything that it provides, you have to back and forth and really, you know, I was thinking da, da, da.

Walker Bird [00:10:23]:
And so that is much more interactive and stimulating than just having information flow when you're scrolling, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:32]:
Yeah, sure, sure.

Walker Bird [00:10:35]:
We go on autopilot. And I think. I think it carries through in a lot of the ways that we're interacting as a society right now. You know, people aren't using critical thinking. They're just reactive and afraid. And I don't know, maybe it's because of the, you know, that change, I mean, go back to the 80s. I mean, people still fought and, you know, had fist fights and shot each other and did all those things, you know, So I don't know that it's changed that much, but I just think that when we are constantly fed, you know, we don't have to work for anything as far as using. Using the noggin.

Walker Bird [00:11:36]:
Just accept it and keep going. Well, that's the way it is, is it strikes me as unfortunate and maybe contributory to a lot of things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:46]:
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. You know, I'm just thinking that, you know, the way that I was raised was very. Helped my dad with activities and I mean, we went out and played and rode bikes and came home to the sound of his whistle, you know, at dark. And, you know, so we were out and I, you know, raised my kids to participate with me in solving problems. You know, I would do things with them. I may have told this story, but when, you know, the. I don't remember how long ago it was, maybe 13, 14 years ago, I drove by and there was this huge walnut log.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:37]:
And it said, free walnut. And I was like, free walnut. Have I told you this story and.

Walker Bird [00:12:45]:
Oh, I think I have heard, yes. And Chris, I mean, it's the size of a. Like, huge.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:51]:
It was huge.

Walker Bird [00:12:51]:
Like four feet across.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:53]:
Oh, maybe not four feet, but it was big. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe 30 inches. Anyway, I decided I wanted it, you know, and I went home and got Christopher and Cameron and our, like, lawnmower trailer, you know, hooked to the back of my Jeep, and. And I was like, okay, we need to figure out how to get this home, you know, and the log was too big to roll over, let alone, you know, get on a trailer. And so then we drove back home and we got a chainsaw and we cut it into pieces. And then it was still too much. And so probably would have been, I don't know, 12 and 16, 13 and 17, something like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:44]:
And just that activity itself, watching them think and plan and, you know, calculate, you Know, and using straps to make pulleys and, you know, all the things. It was, you know, wonderful to watch, you know, them thinking and. And they're still all like that, you know, in different ways. Chris and Luke play D D. You know, Cameron works on everything, whether that's cars or 3D printer or whatever. And so. But I think about the difference for me, when I'm using chat and, you know, chat and I argue a lot because I don't always, you know, agree with its decisions about. About things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:34]:
And so for me, it is a brainstorming tool. I mean, I really, you know, use it to help me think of multiple perspectives. Well, what about this and what about that? And, you know, pretend this or pretend that. And it's really helpful for me to consider all of those things. And then I get those. Those questions that I come up with, I get from, you know, reading people's comments on social media. That helps me, you know, think about other people's perspectives that I don't. That would not come to me otherwise.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:11]:
But how I. How my brain is working when I'm doing that is very different than if I'm scrolling. You know, scrolling for me is not using much of my brain, right? It's actually scrolling for me doesn't wake me up. It actually slows my brain down. That's what I'm aware of. And so for me, it's a decompressive, you know, most of the time, I mean. I mean, we may get some crazy comment on one of our posts that wakes me up, but overall, that is not what it does. Overall, it is something that is like, oh, I don't really have to think right now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:57]:
I can just scroll.

Walker Bird [00:16:00]:
So, yeah, what I'm just thinking of the combination. For me, it's just. It is the mindless scrolling and there might be a chuckle every once in a while, but the other part is, you know, getting angry, you know, at different political things, mostly, you know, which is fascinating. So you're not using a whole lot of brain function, but you're still reactive to those sorts of things, you know?

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:35]:
Yeah. Tell me more what you're thinking.

Walker Bird [00:16:37]:
I just find it interesting that that would be the most responsive. That's the most common response that I have when I engage in that at night. You know, you would think it would be settling down, but I'm typically just like, motherfucker, of course, you know, whatever.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:00]:
So interesting.

Walker Bird [00:17:01]:
Yeah, it is interesting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:03]:
So what comes to mind when you say that, like, from a physiological perspective is that time of day in bed you know, with a different type of stimulation, typically non movement, you know, is your brain shifting into more of a theta state, which is that state between awake and asleep, you know, and so is there even less ability to be intentional discerning? Yeah, intentional.

Walker Bird [00:17:40]:
Interesting. And then you fed all this stuff in right before you go to sleep. Well, no wonder I wake up angry.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:45]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that is. Our brain is most suggestible right before we go to bed and right when we wake up.

Walker Bird [00:17:52]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:53]:
And so. Yeah, so for scrolling right before bed or scrolling as soon as we wake up. Yeah, interesting.

Walker Bird [00:18:01]:
Yeah. No, there's a Louise Hay meditation where she's like, for heaven's sake, don't read the news before you go to sleep. And put all that in. That was just, you know, newspaper news versus all the. I mean, there's so much data you can get doing that and. And you know how it feeds it. If you hover long enough, which you would when you're reactive, then you get more of it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:28]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:18:29]:
And so it is a fascinating. It's a very fascinating thing to take a look at, you know, as far as. Do I really. Is that how I want to live?

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:41]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:18:42]:
You know?

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:43]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:18:44]:
Really? You know, because I think it's relaxing, but it's really not, now that I think about it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:48]:
Right. It may be zoning you out.

Walker Bird [00:18:51]:
Yeah, exactly.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:52]:
But you're also more suggestible at the same time. Right.

Walker Bird [00:18:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:56]:
So.

Walker Bird [00:18:56]:
And like base emotion. Yeah, fascinating.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:00]:
Yeah. Like you said, loss of discernment.

Walker Bird [00:19:02]:
Yeah. We always get somewhere fascinating in our conversations. Didn't expect it to go this way. I'm feeling better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:09]:
Good.

Walker Bird [00:19:11]:
Got it. Moving.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:15]:
Yeah. Thinking, thinking, being curious. Right. Yeah. You know what I was. So what came to mind when you were sharing? That was then, you know, what are things that we can intentionally do before bed instead of scrolling on Facebook or Instagram or, you know, YouTube? What are some things that we could do? So I was thinking playing meditations. You know, I can put a plug in for my meditations. I think they're really good.

Walker Bird [00:19:48]:
Where do you. Where do we go to get your meditations?

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:50]:
Well, YouTube, to our meditation playlist channel or Insight Timer. They're an on. On Insight Timer as well, which is just an app that has all kinds of meditations on there.

Walker Bird [00:20:03]:
So Insight Timer, what would they look for?

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:05]:
Oh, just my name. Just Theresa Hubbard. You can just search Theresa Hubbard and my teacher channel will show up and yours will have stuff on it eventually. Yeah, but meditations, I mean, mine are meant to be, you know, insight gaining, nurturing, empowering, you know, trying to help you feel more alive and in your body and. Yeah. Learning to trust yourself.

Walker Bird [00:20:35]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:35]:
Setting healthy boundaries, all that. So. Right. So those. What?

Walker Bird [00:20:44]:
I'm just putting it in old school terms. Would you rather have your, you know, nightly beating and be thrown in bed, or would you rather, you know, have somebody snuggle up and read you a story?

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:58]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:20:58]:
You know, something positive that makes you, you know, you go to sleep with that instead.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:02]:
So.

Walker Bird [00:21:04]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. The meditations for me are really like metaphorical stories. You know, I'm absolutely. I really am trying to speak to our subconscious and to our body, you know, as a way to help, you know, it find, you know, more discernment, more options, more possibility, more belief, more hope. Yeah. So that would be an option. What else comes to mind?

Walker Bird [00:21:34]:
Journaling.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:35]:
Journaling. Okay. Like, tell me more.

Walker Bird [00:21:38]:
Just getting things out, you know. Well, that can go both directions. So, you know, sometimes when you wake up might be a better time to do it, but it's still. I think it can be cathartic, you know, help get out anything that is sticking. But also, you could do gratitude journaling. I mean, what a wonderful way to try to go to sleep. I try to do gratitude practice when I go to sleep sometimes. Doesn't work, but, yeah, I commonly try to do that right before I'm falling asleep.

Walker Bird [00:22:08]:
I usually fall asleep really quick when I get to that space. But loading in the scrolling stuff before I do that is counterproductive, is how I'm looking at it now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:18]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:22:18]:
Ooh, that may be hard to break.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:20]:
I was gonna say, should we make a commitment right now?

Walker Bird [00:22:23]:
Sure. Do we wanna talk about Heston? Which is crazy, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:31]:
I was thinking we could.

Walker Bird [00:22:32]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:32]:
We could leave our phones on a table outside our room because our room's always cracked open a little bit, and that way we can hear the alarm go off in the morning. That way it's not like in the kitchen all the way across the house.

Walker Bird [00:22:45]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:46]:
But we could dock our phones outside our room.

Walker Bird [00:22:49]:
Okay. Yeah, let's try it for a week.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:51]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:22:52]:
When are we starting?

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:53]:
Tonight?

Walker Bird [00:22:54]:
Monday.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:54]:
No, no, tonight. No. You know me. I'll go home. I'll get it set up.

Walker Bird [00:22:59]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:00]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:23:00]:
Yeah, that's right. No, I'm. It's. The fact that I'm hesitant is fascinating to me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:05]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:23:07]:
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Theresa Hubbard [00:23:24]:
Yeah. We really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn healthy relationship skills so that we can get through life having a good, healthy relationship experience. So click the link, put your email in, you'll get the PDF, spend a few hours working on it and please let us know what your experience is. We know it will benefit you in some way. Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:23:47]:
Thank you. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:50]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:23:50]:
I thought that one was pretty good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:51]:
Okay. Sounds good.

Walker Bird [00:23:53]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:54]:
Check, check. What do you notice?

Walker Bird [00:23:59]:
The anxiety makes me nervous.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:01]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:24:02]:
Not fascinating.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:03]:
It is fascinating. Where do you feel it in your body?

Walker Bird [00:24:06]:
Heart. Well, so. But I'm also thinking about, you know, because I used to play video games when I was, you know, shoot. Law school and before that. And there are some. I mean, I don't know what everybody else's experience is. And the phone scrolling is different.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:29]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:24:31]:
It's not so intense.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:32]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:24:33]:
But it's still there or I wouldn't be hesitant.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:36]:
Okay. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:24:38]:
No, you. The video game thing is like. And I don't know if it's dopamine or whatever it is, but literally I feel it in my head.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:45]:
You would feel it in your head?

Walker Bird [00:24:47]:
Yeah. Like a chemical release.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:48]:
Just. Oh. If you would start playing.

Walker Bird [00:24:51]:
Oh, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:52]:
Gotcha.

Walker Bird [00:24:52]:
Action games.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:53]:
Gotcha. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:24:54]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:54]:
When you were in college and law school.

Walker Bird [00:24:56]:
Yep. Not in college so much. Law school.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:58]:
Gotcha.

Walker Bird [00:24:59]:
It was a good escape from doing what I should have been doing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:01]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:25:03]:
Sometimes, you know, I like that there were combat aircraft games and things like that, but. And now they've got the, you know, amazing adventure games, etc. And you know, the boys, your boys want me to do that. But I'm like. Yeah. I'm like a fiend when I start that. And it's that chemical hit. It's powerful stuff and I don't know.

Walker Bird [00:25:30]:
Interesting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:31]:
Yeah, it is interesting, but I don't.

Walker Bird [00:25:33]:
Get that hit from doom scrolling or business scrolling or whatever it is that I'm doing. But there's still some aspect of it. I think it's just a lower level.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:47]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:25:48]:
Maybe more insidious because it's not so obvious.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:50]:
Okay. Well, it's going to be an interesting experiment. Yeah. How will you. How do you think you'll measure whether it's helpful for you?

Walker Bird [00:26:02]:
Do I sleep angry or do I sleep happy?

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:06]:
Okay. Well, my goal is to fall asleep with my head on your chest. So hopefully.

Walker Bird [00:26:15]:
Damn, it's looking up. I'm not so worry about the phone now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:23]:
I love you. Yeah. I'll rest my the side of my head on that place because it feels anxious.

Walker Bird [00:26:31]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:32]:
How about that?

Walker Bird [00:26:33]:
Sounds great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:36]:
Okay. It will be our experiment.

Walker Bird [00:26:39]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:39]:
So our next recording, I think, will be in, like a week and a half. So that'll give us a week and a half to experiment before we record and another episode for us, just the two of us.

Walker Bird [00:26:53]:
Sure. No, it sounds great. Report back and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:26:59]:
Maybe be a great experience. Yeah, I'll bet you it's tough, first couple of nights.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:02]:
Sure, sure. It will be for me, too. I mean, just because that is how I come down, you know, after, you know, working. So. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:18]:
So I was thinking about that.

Walker Bird [00:27:20]:
The other thing I watch is MMA fighting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:23]:
I know, I know. It's so incongruent. So for how I experience you, we are complex. We are very complex.

Walker Bird [00:27:33]:
I used to be a violin man.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:37]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:27:39]:
Or I could be, and let me put it that way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:41]:
Yeah, yeah. Intentionally choosing what we put in our brain all the time, let alone during times when our brain is more plastic.

Walker Bird [00:27:58]:
Yep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:00]:
Yeah. It matters. I know we hear about it, you know, from different people here and there. I just. I just want to reinforce that it's real and that it is a brainwave state that we shift into as we're going towards sleep.

Walker Bird [00:28:16]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:17]:
And that's what hypnosis is about. Hypnosis. You know, I was. I was trained as a mental health clinician, hypnotherapist prior to about 15 years ago, mental health professionals that got trained often got trained as stage performers. And so I learned from other therapists that were trained 20, 25 years ago, you know, that they were often looking for people in the audience, like, at a big show who they felt like was suggestible, maybe had been drinking. And so they knew or were trained to seek out people who would be more suggestible. And so, yeah, it was just an interesting learning. And so the relaxation part of hypnosis is getting you into that place where you are more suggestible.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:17]:
So as we sit here and talk about it, I'm thinking scrolling on your phone in the morning, at night sounds like a horrible idea. Horrible.

Walker Bird [00:29:27]:
And they know it. Right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:29]:
Oh, my God.

Walker Bird [00:29:30]:
But we know it, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:31]:
I know. We do on some level. Right? We do. But I think this is, like, bringing it to, like, a whole different level of awareness.

Walker Bird [00:29:40]:
You remember that there was a Netflix show or something else that we watched that you were resistant to because you were like, people need to take responsibility for, you know, because it was all about how the system. The system was, you know, using us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:55]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:29:56]:
But when you look at it in terms of, you know, the psychology of the scrolling and you're in that moving towards a theta state and then it's suggesting things to you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:06]:
Yeah, yeah, I can't remember that what that special was. Maybe it was called social media. And yes, I was talking about how it is your responsibility to curate your feed. Right, right. And so for me, that is something I pay attention to. If things show up. Well, I do more Facebook than Instagram, but when I'm on Facebook and something shows up on my feedback that is not familiar, I exit out, you know, just don't want to look at that. Don't want to look at that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:39]:
Whether it's in, you know, I mean, I would guess they're probably all advertisements, you know, to a certain degree. And sometimes they're interesting. But if I'm like, that's not interesting to me. You know, I hit the X so that it goes away. And then this is something that we recognized recently. I didn't know that this happened, but I think like, they're the, the, like when they're watching your algorithm and they're feeding you certain things and then some channel, page, whatever in the heck it's called, started sending me things that were interesting to me. And then I actually followed it, and then it started sending inappropriate things. And at first I was like, what is happening? I mean, I literally could not even understand what was happening.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:33]:
And I said it to you. I was like, I am getting these really inappropriate things on my phone. What in the heck? And so. And I was actually afraid initially to click on it because I didn't want it to then feed the algorithm. Right. Because it was showing up like, on like the top where it has, like suggested readings. Right.

Walker Bird [00:31:51]:
It was crazy, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:53]:
And so one day, I mean, so I had to talk with chat, and it was explaining, you know, to me what was happening because I just said, I don't understand how this is happening. Why would that show up? And so I just followed its directions, which was click on it. I clicked on it and then saw in all their stuff, this inappropriate stuff mixed in with the stuff that was interesting to me. And I was like, oh, I don't know if they call that clickbait or bait and switch or whatever that is. I don't know. So then I just went in and blocked the page. So anyway, I was like, fascinating. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:33]:
And I know from years ago, the research around there, and this was really hard for me as a mental health professional to realize that there were people, like trained mental health Professionals, typically psychologists, researchers that actually worked for, like, the porn industry, who very intentionally was teaching people how to manipulate people to get them further and further addicted to things, which was just so heartbreaking. And so for all of us to recognize, you know, that that is happening. That's real. That's our physiology that people are taking advantage of. And so what we have choice around is, you know, unfollowing things, blocking things, intentionally curating our feed so that we're, you know, when we are consuming, we're, you know, consuming intentionally.

Walker Bird [00:33:31]:
Well, if you're laying in bed or you wake up in the middle of the night and your way to get back to sleep is to, you know, scroll, your ability to make those choices is lessened.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:42]:
Sure, for sure. Absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:33:43]:
That's why the experiment will be fascinating.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:46]:
It will be fascinating.

Walker Bird [00:33:47]:
Experiment?

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:48]:
Yes. Well, you know, we like experimenting.

Walker Bird [00:33:51]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:51]:
So question. Since we got to that point, then, let's say one of us wakes up in the middle of the night and we're struggling to go back to sleep, and our phone isn't there to scroll on because it's in the living room. Then what are we going to do?

Walker Bird [00:34:09]:
Find another way to soothe.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:10]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:34:11]:
And the answer can't be ice cream.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:12]:
I can't. Okay. Can't be ice cream.

Walker Bird [00:34:17]:
Well, it could be.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:20]:
Yes, it could be.

Walker Bird [00:34:25]:
Dad, you can't roll over and turn on a meditation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:28]:
Right. Because we play those on our phone.

Walker Bird [00:34:34]:
Turn on the light and say, you want to talk. I'd wake you up a lot.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:41]:
Yeah. Than. Oh, yeah. What about bilateral stimulation? Could you do the.

Walker Bird [00:34:50]:
Could I tap myself? I suppose, maybe.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:54]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:34:56]:
I could read a book.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:58]:
Oh, read a book.

Walker Bird [00:35:00]:
I have to get up and walk past the phone outside the bedroom to get to my chair where I read the book.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:05]:
Could you have a wake up in the middle of the night book that's always on your night beds?

Walker Bird [00:35:14]:
I've got a whole stack of books. But I need a light that doesn't wake you up if I turn it on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:18]:
Oh. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So you need a book light.

Walker Bird [00:35:24]:
I guess so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:25]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:35:25]:
I haven't seen one of those in years.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:27]:
I know. They still exist.

Walker Bird [00:35:29]:
Do they?

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think they're even fancier than they used to be.

Walker Bird [00:35:33]:
Yeah, I bet. More limited, you know, focused versus wake your spouse up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:37]:
Right, right. Okay. That sounds like a good plan.

Walker Bird [00:35:41]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:41]:
Okay. So who.

Walker Bird [00:35:45]:
I'm sweating. And I'm not even that bad on the phone compared to some people. Or maybe I am and I just don't know it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:55]:
Interesting.

Walker Bird [00:35:56]:
I'm not as bad as you, that's for sure. For those of you who don't know, that's me teasing Theresa, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Does your judging. Does your phone tell you how much time you spend on it in a week?

Walker Bird [00:36:23]:
Oh, sure. And I don't pay any attention.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:25]:
Okay. Okay. Well, that'll be interesting to see. To watch that a week down the road too, to see.

Walker Bird [00:36:30]:
Yeah, it's gonna get lonely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:32]:
That's okay. I think it's fine if our phones are lonely, you know, which is. I'm so glad you said that because this takes me to another point. We're still good on time. What I'm curious about is with what feels like an increasingly overstimulated world that we're living in, not just technology, but what's presented to us all the time on technology. What I'm curious about and, you know, really hopeful for is a way for us to, you know, find. Continue to find ways to have community in ways that feel safe and supported and caring and compassionate. You know, what are you thinking?

Walker Bird [00:37:36]:
As I said, go ahead, I'm listening.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:37]:
Yeah. And so, and I know our retreats, you know, present that, you know, for people and it's something that I, you know, I've always wanted and always, you know, you know, think about what is that possibility, you know, a place. Because, you know, you and I, we don't go out, right? So we're not. We're not hanging out in, you know, bars or, you know, going to bars and watching sporting games. You know, typically we are at work, at home with our kids, maybe out the land mowing. Today we spent some time just eating lunch at Smithfield Lake, which was lovely. And so, you know, what does that look like? What are people wanting in regards to community? That would be something I'd be curious to get feedback from people around. What does that look like? Because we all have different needs.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:02]:
You know, when you said the story time thing, you know, part of me was this is how my brain works, right. I'm imagining being out on the land and having a yurt and, you know, people come by at seven and there's a campfire and somebody tells a story and then everybody goes home and goes to bed. You know.

Walker Bird [00:39:26]:
Do we get s'mores?

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:27]:
Yes, something like that. Some type of campfire, appropriate snack? Yeah, yeah, just that in nature based, focused, you know, community around, you know, that I think is so deeply embedded in our DNA. You know, we may have talked about this too at some point, but, like, I can go to sleep very well with that double drumming, you know, the shamanic journeying drumming that they use to do, like that particular modality of, you know, I don't know what you want to call it, but ex. Subconscious exploration. But there's a double drumming one and man, that is so soothing to my body. And I just think it goes back a very long hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. I'm sure. But are there things that we can do to, you know, take care of our brain and our body in a more intentional way so that we're, I don't know, using more of it instead of what we do when we're scrolling? Sure, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:52]:
Building things, you know, I think planning, using our body, being creative, you know, somebody that I know. You know, one of the things that I want to do out on the land too is I want to. I don't know what you call it. Well, I don't know what we would call it, but somebody went somewhere that I know and they sent me some video of this place called Soundhenge. And so instead of Stonehenge, it was Soundhenge. And it had all of these, you know, chimes and bells and, you know, and so we hung chimes out in the, on the land, you know, and I would love that. And I think we saw one of those like a miniature kind of version of that when we were in Maine. Isn't that where that was at that botanical garden? Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:47]:
And so, you know, things that, you know, you can create that people can explore, experiment with. I don't know that again, just get more of us involved. I mean, our body is so capable and competent and I just don't even know that we know or understand. I think, you know, probably like from a physical perspective, probably some athletes do. Right. Know where our edges as humans. And you know, maybe there's some computer people or really high end like neurosurgeons or something. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:28]:
That like. But how, how many of us really find our edge anymore? Maybe we do in an area of our life. Right. But not necessarily multiple areas of our life. Right.

Walker Bird [00:42:44]:
I mean you. I was immediately thinking of work and I'm like pretty much push the edge all the time and what I do as a lawyer.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:51]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:42:52]:
But yeah, not so much if I'm sitting there on the phone the rest of the night. For sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. And to me it's not a, it's not a competitive piece. It's just. I just don't even think that I know in certain areas of my life what my brain and body and mind can Do.

Walker Bird [00:43:14]:
Yeah. I don't think it's competitive. It's just, you know, a richer experience is the potential.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:20]:
Right, right, right.

Walker Bird [00:43:21]:
If we look for it. Yeah, yeah. Maybe getting back in touch with that humanity piece. Nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:30]:
Yeah. The fullness of what. What we can be or can have. Yeah. And again, I think there are pockets of people out there doing that, just not many of us. We live in such a convenient world. Yeah. So interesting, even, like for you and I, we're getting ready to start a low histamine diet because we recognize that we both have that overactive immune system, even though it manifests in different ways.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:06]:
And so part of that will require more. I mean, we're both great in the kitchen, but we don't tend to cook enough for just the two of us for a meal. And so part of the histamine diet is not eating leftovers because the more the food sits around after it's been cooked, the more histamine gathers in the food, so it's more activating for your body. And that's just a really simple explanation. Right. And so for me, even, like, the effort that it's going to take to, like, shift how I've cooked, which has always been very large quantities.

Walker Bird [00:44:43]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:44]:
Right. Will be. That'll be a new experience altogether. Yeah. That we just cook two chicken breasts at a time instead of 10 chicken breasts at a time. Right, right. Experimenting. Trying to be more intentional about how we're living and what our body needs and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:08]:
Yeah. Even our meal today, what might. What might have the least histamine reaction in our bodies. Right. With this meal, understanding, you know, all the research I've done the last four years on genetics, you know, and what my body. What my body does and does not do well, you know, trying to find ways to support it. Well, there's always an experiment that I am in the middle of or maybe five or more. But so not having the phone at the end of the day will be different for me, too.

Walker Bird [00:45:56]:
It will. And I just. I guess what I would say is at a minimum, to shake it up, you know, And I know we do some, but it's pretty common for us to end up in our chairs and on our computers and we may be exercising, you know, our brains, but it's like that's the same thing I just did all day long.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:19]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:46:19]:
I mean, I may be on topics that are not related to law, but.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:22]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:46:24]:
And so I enjoy that part, but I also am recognizing that some variety might be really nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:32]:
Yeah. Being more intentional about what we're doing in the evening. Yeah, yeah, I think we usually wait till the weekend to do that instead.

Walker Bird [00:46:41]:
Of go out and mow and things like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:45]:
Yeah, yeah, we'll wait till Friday night instead of. Yeah. Throughout the week. Yeah. This is going to be a very interesting experiment. I'm looking forward to it. Me too. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:56]:
Any other final thoughts about how the convenience of the world we live in is impacting?

Walker Bird [00:47:04]:
No, but we'll report back or either gonna be all smiles. We're like oh my God.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:10]:
Yep. Well, what we know is they'll be learning regardless.

Walker Bird [00:47:14]:
Yeah, agreed.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:16]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for the conversation.

Walker Bird [00:47:19]:
Yeah. Love you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:20]:
I love you too. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.