The Freedom of Being Disliked

Walker Bird [00:00:00]:
There can be freedom in the whole process that you're talking about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:04]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:00:05]:
That I can. I can make those decisions and I can. I like myself enough and I'm continuing to like myself or love myself more that how you react to what I have to say is not going to impact me for long. Right. And I'm okay if you don't like it, but I have. The maturity piece comes in with making sure that it's intentional and is it. And you say integrous. You know, do I have integrity to myself in what my choice is? And if I do, then I'm maintaining my like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:43]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:00:44]:
You know, my self love. And what you do doesn't. You know, it may impact it briefly, but not for long.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:51]:
No.

Walker Bird [00:00:52]:
And being okay with that, I think, is where I would like to. To move, you know, continue moving towards. I think I have grown a lot in that regard.

Walker Bird [00:01:05]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:33]:
Well, hello.

Walker Bird [00:01:34]:
Hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:36]:
How are you?

Walker Bird [00:01:37]:
I'm good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:38]:
Good.

Walker Bird [00:01:40]:
It's been a long day and we're here in the new studio. It's exciting. It's so beautiful. But we're trying to get lighting figured out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:49]:
Yeah, yeah. And we're sitting in camp chairs because we don't have our new chairs yet. And so everything is in process.

Walker Bird [00:02:00]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:00]:
But we will figure it all out.

Walker Bird [00:02:03]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:03]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:04]:
Throwing off perfection.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:05]:
Yes. Stepping in and doing it anyway. Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:12]:
So I wanted to remind everybody that if you're enjoying our content, and I know you and I didn't discuss this, but if you're enjoying our content, would you please hit that, like, button and subscribe? If you haven't subscribed already. And you've got to hit the bell twice to make that happen. But it really helps us and we'd appreciate it. Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:29]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:02:30]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:33]:
Yeah. And then in December, our Oregon retreat is full and so very exciting. With a wait list.

Walker Bird [00:02:40]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:41]:
And then we're having a retreat in December for mental health professionals that'll be here in Missouri.

Walker Bird [00:02:47]:
More of a specialized retreat than we normally do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:49]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so. And that really is about creating space for, you know, mental health professionals to come together to have a place to be cared for, nurtured, process, revitalize, refresh, renewed, all the things that we need to get grounded again. So. Looking forward to that in December.

Walker Bird [00:03:17]:
Yeah, you guys, you know, it's. It's a big deal. It's just watching you from the sidelines, all the space you have to hold for people, it's a lot. And there's a lot of stuff going on out in the world these days. Oh, I know that. It'll. It will be a pleasure to nurture people and just take good care of them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:40]:
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:03:44]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:44]:
So looking forward to it. No, absolutely. So today we are talking about the freedom of being disliked. So what are you thinking when I say the freedom of being.

Walker Bird [00:04:03]:
Well, it's high enough immediately, you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:05]:
Oh, okay.

Walker Bird [00:04:06]:
Anxiety.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:07]:
Okay, tell me more.

Walker Bird [00:04:13]:
I don't know. That's just an immediate body reaction to the topic, you know, especially doing what I do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:22]:
Yeah, sure.

Walker Bird [00:04:23]:
Trial lawyer. There's plenty of people that don't like me. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. You know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:34]:
Because you're an attorney.

Walker Bird [00:04:36]:
Well, just because of the attorney name. But I'm sure when they're on the other side, they don't like me, and that's okay with me. I have. I think it took a long time to develop a thick skin around that, But I think outside of the law piece is where I still would struggle with it. Inside the law piece, I don't. And it's typically because as I go into depositions and things, you know, I'm not the aggressive hammer or anything like that, but I usually have my concepts of right and wrong, and I feel comfortable that they've done wrong, or I'm giving them the opportunity to come clean and tell the truth. And if they choose not to, then I don't have a problem with the fact that they don't like it or like me in that process. Now, outside of litigation, I still want people to like me.

Walker Bird [00:05:34]:
And I think there's hesitation sometimes to speak my truth. You know what I. It's interesting, you know, as you gain age and experience wisdom, not having to win in every situation, etcetera, I start wondering, you know, if hesitation is more just circumspection. Is that the word for it? You know, or a greater ability to pause and not take it so personally? So I'm trying to figure that out still, you know, is it. Do I not speak because I want people to like me, or is it because I'm learning that I don't need to speak? You know what I'm saying?

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:25]:
I do. I do.

Walker Bird [00:06:27]:
What do you think about that? That's a curveball.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:40]:
You know, it's interesting for me, if I'm choosing to speak at this point in my life, there's a part of me that has to feel like there's purpose to it. There has to be, like teaching, you know, that comes or an opportunity. I. I don't think that I. It's interesting because I'm just. I'm thinking about some recent, I don't know, things that I've shared. And so what comes to mind is my process. So there is a part of me, a younger part of me that is aware that if I say what I feel like is my truth, then I will be judged.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:58]:
And it comes in and it's quick and it's familiar and it doesn't last long, but it is there. And then I can go to what feels integrous to me. Who's my audience? Is there relationship there? Is the relationship important? How much energy do I have? Am I willing to spend that energy right now? But I spend time like there was somebody that posted something in the GKC therapist page yesterday, and it was about the Charlie Kirk killing. And I knew that it was coming. I didn't know when, but I knew somebody would post something. And I also didn't know what it would be. I didn't know the context or I just had the expectation that somebody would post something. I didn't feel the need to post anything.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:34]:
You know, as the creator and administrator of that group, I didn't feel the need to post anything. The group is very diverse, whether that is politically, ideologically religious. And so to me, it wasn't something that I felt that the need to put energy into. Then somebody posted about it. I thought it was fine. You know, he was speaking to a specific group of people, saying that he was asking other people in the group he identifies with, you know, would you be willing to get together so we can talk about what's happening within our group? Not the bigger group of the GKC therapist page, but his smaller identifying group. I thought it was fine. I didn't see any problems with it at all.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:32]:
But then someone outside that group said, what about me? And then somebody, another person outside that group said, what about me? And at that point I was like, what's my role? How much energy do I have? What do I feel like there is to potentially teach here? Knowing that whatever I say is going to upset somebody? And then I'm thoughtful about it, I write it out, I reread it many times, checking in with my body. Does this feel like a compulsion for Me to post this, does it feel settled? Do I feel like I'm being passive aggressive? So I put energy into being as clear as I can, but also trying to encourage curiosity. So for one person I posted, you know, I'm confused on what you're asking of this person. Are you asking them to include the whole group when they're asking to just include the people that identify similarly to them and, you know, their response was no. You know, as this person has continued to respond to other people's comments, I've recognized, you know, that their. What they were meaning. But in their comment they did say, but what about me? And so, um, but I think in people continuing to be more curious that that got more clear about what the person that was posting initially meant or was intending. And that person obviously made a choice to risk the not being liked.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:58]:
Right? Not being liked, absolutely. Um, and then the other person that struggled with, and there were plenty of people that liked those people's comments, the what about me Comments. Um, and then for the other person, you know, I just was. I don't remember exactly what it was that I posted, but really just, you know, I think I posted something like. I don't think that that's what he was suggesting. I went back and read the post twice myself just to be clear what it was that he was asking. And so ultimately the post worked out fine. It didn't go any crazy way like, you know, historically it has.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:42]:
But there is this part of me when I'm engaging in that it's going to be like, oh, there's going to be somebody else added to the I don't like Teresa list. And I think I've just gotten to practice more and more over the years. And you know, again, it's not that my little girl part doesn't struggle with that some. It just doesn't stick. It's just I am thoughtful, I am intentional. I am very intentionally working to not be passive aggressive. I'm trying to limit the amount of bias. It is very intentional.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:27]:
Am I still going to. Absolutely. But for me, it's really gotten down to what feels integrous to me.

Walker Bird [00:14:36]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:36]:
You know what I mean? I would know if I was saying something that wasn't kind. I would know if I was saying something that was passive aggressive. I can feel it in my body. And so when I take the time, right, if you to breathe, right. Check in, get grounded, ask myself those questions, you know, what do you really want? What's most important to you right now? Checking in. That is the best I feel like we can do along with continuing to do our work and get more educated about people, you know. You know, I've said this before, I don't go on social media as much to read the content as I do the comments because as I. And I know it's not the content and don't worry more the comments.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:33]:
Right. But for me, that's really where I observe people. Right. And so it's not as like a reactive thing to me, but as it is, like, fascinating. That is fascinating. I wouldn't have thought about that. And so I really have, you know, put a lot of effort into the depersonalization, you know, of things. But.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:56]:
But I do still see sometimes I saw a post somebody made who was a fellow mental health professional, owns a group practice, and they posted something and I was like, wow, that is unbelievable to me that you would post that. And not only that, this is the judgment piece coming out. I think you should surrender your license because if you feel like higher education is so detrimental, then you should not be allowed to practice anymore. And that's my, you know, like, reactive thing. Like, but this person, I don't have a relationship with them. I only know them by name. It's. They don't know me except maybe by name.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:55]:
I definitely did not desire to spend the energy to have a debate with someone that I don't have a relationship with. And I have so many other things in my life I want to put the energy towards. So even though I had the thought about it, I didn't do anything because it was like, not important to me. And that wasn't about the fear of being disliked. There's no relationship. I don't care if that person doesn't like me.

Walker Bird [00:17:31]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:31]:
But there's no relationship. No need for me to share anything.

Walker Bird [00:17:36]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:38]:
Yeah, yeah, I did post something.

Walker Bird [00:17:42]:
Just the comment on that. The juxtaposition of that, which is I don't have relationship, and so I don't have the need to engage.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:55]:
Right, right, right.

Walker Bird [00:17:56]:
Versus, you know, I. I want you to like me, so I'm afraid to tell you what I think. In other words, it doesn't matter to me. And so I don't need to tell you what I think. I choose not to tell you what I think because it's not worth my energy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:12]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:18:13]:
Is a huge difference.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:16]:
Sure. So I was thinking about, you know, I had a sibling that posted something too, and one of. And I saw it and, you know, took it in. And then, you know, one of their friends had a really significant reaction you know, and. And I felt like, wow, that was a really big reaction. And I could see where it would just keep going bad from there.

Walker Bird [00:18:47]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:48]:
But I actually thought my sibling handled it really well. You know, the response to that person's comment was, hey, why don't we talk? I'll DM you.

Walker Bird [00:18:59]:
Wow. Yeah, okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:00]:
Right, right. So great. And then for me. What?

Walker Bird [00:19:07]:
Just chuckling about the DM part.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:09]:
Oh, okay.

Walker Bird [00:19:10]:
You son of a bitch.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:14]:
Sorry. Yeah, I know, I know.

Walker Bird [00:19:16]:
The younger me, Me, actually the younger me would have just said it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:23]:
Yeah, yeah. So then I. I did. I did spend time and energy, probably about an hour writing my process of what I had done for myself to get educated around this particular topic. And then I very intentionally, thoughtfully shared that process of what I had gone through, that I was curious, that I kept exploring, that I kept allowing myself to learn more, to have my, you know, thoughts and story challenged. And I did post it. Not sure what her response would be. Not sure what the other people on her post would comment.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:28]:
And the conversation actually ended after I posted that people stopped posting. And then she mess. She replied to it, thanking me for being who I am and doing things the way that I do them and that she appreciated the way that I do them. And so. But it doesn't mean that I didn't have that. Like, do I post that? Even if it was intentional, researched, well thought out, grounded, not compelled. I still don't know. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:17]:
I don't know how my other siblings might respond or my parents might respond or other people I went to high school with might respond. Since we're all connected.

Walker Bird [00:21:27]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:34]:
I've been fired plenty by clients. I think that was really hard initially. Some just disappear. Some tell you why they don't like you. What I feel like I've worked to do is to ask myself, am I aware of something that I said or did, didn't do or didn't say that could have contributed to the harm in that relationship? And then if there is something, you know, how can I grow from that? I mean, there are still things I think about. Occasionally there'll be a client situation that comes up or a relationship, you know, like a friend relationship. And I'll think, oh, remember when you did that? You know, did you learn from that? Are you clear about that? Is this similar to that? You know, so again, self inquiry, but really trying to be clear as I can about how I walk in the world and how I am in relationship. You know, we've.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:56]:
We haven't had many negative comments in the Year and nine months we've been doing this, but a few. And it's not that that doesn't hit my body, you know, when I read that, but I can go towards curiosity and compassion pretty quickly and, you know, not let it impact, you know, how, how I am. You know, like I heard somebody on a podcast saying they don't read the comments ever because they don't want the comments ever to, to change how they do things. And there was a part of me that was sad about that because I'm like. But then you're not connected to your audience and so your nervous system isn't resilient enough. Right. Like that's work for you to do. I can't imagine ever getting to a place where I didn't read our comments.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:54]:
Positive or negative. Absolutely. Much prefer the positive ones, but I'm not going to not read the negative ones. You know, there can be learning there, and if I can't, if I can't take that comment and take the learning from myself, from that, like, I'm the best one that knows me, and so I don't want it interpreted by somebody else. I want to know what that person had to say. I want to analyze what their comment was. I want to better understand what may have been difficult for them. And I'll keep doing my work for the rest of my life, but I don't want an interpreter.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:48]:
What are you thinking?

Walker Bird [00:25:02]:
I think that in different times in our life, you know, depending on our, I don't know, maturity, I think experience just keeps coming back to me because when I was in college or high school, I would say whatever I thought. There was no discretion and I didn't care if you didn't like it and I didn't care if you didn't like me. I, I had plenty of people that liked me and I think some admired the fact that I would just say it. And there's some freedom that comes with that, but it also comes along with a black and white worldview, a young worldview, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:47]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:25:49]:
So I'm just trying to balance out because I'm sitting here thinking about the freedom that came with that. But I think what you're talking about, as you're describing your experience is the maturity of being able to make decisions, to pause and to reflect about the different factors that are involved. Do I have relationship? Does this matter to me? Do I want to expend the energy? Am I achieving something that helps? You know, am I being helpful? Am I teaching? There's just so many things that you Those steps that you're talking about going through. Am I being kind? You know, or, or. And kind can have, you know, degrees because sometimes, you know, telling somebody the way that you see it, they won't take as kind. Even though you're not intending to hurt them, you are telling them what you see. So what I think, you know, from the freedom perspective of, gosh, I just don't have to worry about it. Just say whatever I think.

Walker Bird [00:27:04]:
Have you ever felt confused or overwhelmed in relationships? Teresa and I have come up with a free mini course that we think will really help you out with a lot of the common relationship experiences so that you can improve your communication skills with all of the people in your life and really make a change for the better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:21]:
Yeah, we really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn healthy relationship skills so that we can get through life having a good, healthy relationship experience. So click the link, put your email in, you'll get the PDF, spend a few hours working on it, and please let us know what your experience is. We know it will benefit you in some way. Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:27:44]:
Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:47]:
Yeah. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:27:47]:
I thought that was pretty good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:48]:
Okay, sounds good. Okay, check, check.

Walker Bird [00:27:56]:
What I think is on the other end of the spectrum, or at least moving along the spectrum, I should say there can be freedom in the whole process that you're talking about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:07]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:28:07]:
That I can make those decisions and I can. I like myself enough and I'm continuing to like myself or love myself more that how you react to what I have to say is not going to impact me for long. Right. And I'm okay if you don't like it, but I have. The maturity piece comes in with making sure that it's intentional and is it. And you say integrous, you know, do I have integrity to myself in what my choice is? And if I do, then I'm maintaining my, like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:46]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:28:47]:
You know, my self.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:48]:
Love.

Walker Bird [00:28:48]:
And what you do doesn't, you know, it may impact it briefly, but not for long.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:54]:
No.

Walker Bird [00:28:54]:
And being okay with that, I think, is where I would like to, to move, you know, continue moving towards. I think I have grown a lot in that regard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:03]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:29:04]:
But it is interesting, you know, as we're kind of delving into those other areas between, you know, youth and. And more maturity, intelligence and wisdom. Those topics keep coming up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:17]:
Yes, they do.

Walker Bird [00:29:19]:
And I think this is along those same lines, you know, and so I, I enjoy looking at it from that perspective. Part of me wants that freedom to just say it, so I'm not holding it in. But I also think that we have a responsibility to ourselves.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:37]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:29:37]:
To our own integrity. That is part of self love.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:40]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:29:41]:
To consider it and then choose. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Consider it.

Walker Bird [00:29:48]:
And that makes me smile.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:49]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:29:50]:
Even though it's hard. That's hard sometimes, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:53]:
It is hard. It is hard asking ourselves those questions, being honest with ourselves, you know, slowing down enough, you know, to just have the conversation with ourselves.

Walker Bird [00:30:07]:
Yeah. I mean, one other thought comes to mind, babe. And it's the. I think in that maturing process that sometimes I've lost myself into losing the. The voice, you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:22]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:30:23]:
And so you can, you can fool yourself, I think, in some ways.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:27]:
Absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:30:27]:
You know, eating it versus saying it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:30]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:30:30]:
Because you can't. You're. You're working through that. All of those, you know, aspects is a kind. Is it helpful. What are the. Don Miguel Ruiz would has like a series of, you know, four agreements. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:49]:
And when you. Is it wise speech? Essentially.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:53]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:54]:
And I think while. And I'm still learning that. So part of me there's like as at this age, you know, of adulthood or this space in adulthood, however you want to say it, even with all the experience, sometimes I regret not having said it, or I. Or I fester over not having said it. So I'm just going to figure that out. I think going through the process, you know, you can. You can lose some of that freedom. And I think maybe it's because I'm not present, you know, I haven't brought myself intentionally present to make that decision.

Walker Bird [00:31:33]:
And life happens fast sometimes. Right. As Ferris Bueller would say, it does. So we can always think, you know, at later. Well, if I'd only said this, but that usually is an ego play.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:48]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:50]:
However, there are moments, and I told you about one earlier today, when I. In retrospect, maybe not in the exact moment I would have spoken up, you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:03]:
Yeah. You know, I think if. If we are clear and we are integrous or asking ourselves those questions or slowing down enough. And I think, I mean, in my experience, the process is so much quicker than it used to be. Like, you know, maybe it would take me two days to get clear, you know, and now I can do it pretty quickly. Not always, but pretty quickly. If we're holding on to it, if it's festering, if it's. If we're.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:48]:
I should have said that, or I shouldn't have said that, or I mean, in this particular case, I should have said that, then we're not clear, Right.

Walker Bird [00:32:56]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:58]:
We haven't. Probably haven't asked ourselves those questions. We haven't spent the time, you know, we're just in the emotion of it, you know, still experiencing the emotion of it.

Walker Bird [00:33:11]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:12]:
As opposed to shifting into curiosity with them and with us.

Walker Bird [00:33:19]:
Curiosity can be hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:21]:
Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:33:23]:
I mean, let me go there because I wanted to talk about this anyway, but it's, it's. It makes sense to me in this space. Right. So, you know, we had to euthanize Hughie last. What was it, October? November, November, you know, my boy, 14 years old. And so we took him to the. To the emergency vet. They did test.

Walker Bird [00:33:49]:
His stomach was distended. It was a mess. Cancer everywhere. And so. But, you know, he could be aggressive with strangers. Just. He was a Blue Heeler, and they can be. But he was such a sweetheart.

Walker Bird [00:34:04]:
It was just fear. Right. But in any event, you know, they called me up and the nurse had double dosed him with something. And so, you know, I think they were afraid he was going to die from the sedative they gave him. And so they called me back, you better come over. And so we get there, you're with me. And they usher us into this little, you know, room in the middle of the building. And then they, you know, a couple of nurses are carrying him in on a tray.

Walker Bird [00:34:35]:
And, you know, he wakes up enough, you know, he's kind of up like this looking, and the nurse, like, raises her hand over his head and he, you know, snaps at her. And the look she gave him was hateful. You know, my. My baby is on his deathbed. She's probably the one who double dosed him already. And she. In my memory, you know, there was a lot of trauma going on. So in my memory, you know, her hand came back like that.

Walker Bird [00:35:11]:
Don't you bite me, you know, is what she said to him. And then, you know, I. I stepped towards him and he heard me. And then when he saw me, he just laid his head down. He was like, oh, thank God you're here, dad. And so the old me, the younger me would have lit that lady up right then and there. And there's a part of me that wishes I had. And so when I talked to you about it today, I was going on the walk he and I always took this morning and thinking about him, and that came up.

Walker Bird [00:35:49]:
And so it's this question about, you know, wanting people to like us, you know, versus saying our peace or protecting, you know, a loved one. And in thinking that through now, a year later, it would have been distressing to him for me to get aggressive and Frightening and. But part of me also feels. The younger part of me feels like I failed him by not standing up for him in that moment, which is, lady, you better back away from my dog right now. And a much younger part of me would have said it vastly more aggressively. Wouldn't have been productive. However, I wouldn't be wondering if I had protected him. So in going through that process, I recognize that's not a presentation, you know, and there wasn't any time to evaluate.

Walker Bird [00:36:54]:
I was just, you know, when he saw me and like, you know, he was dying and they were about to do the injection, and so I just went to him and she disappeared somewhere. I don't know. If she had stood around, maybe other things would have happened, but in any event, that is still on my mind, you know, and so this brings it up. And I told. Talked about having a voice for ourselves or for others, but I think it comes up in this context as well, which is that balance between making an intentional choice, you know, or did I fail to act in the moment when I should have, you know, anyway. But I, you know, I. The wise part of me says you. I wouldn't have that festering inside me if the next day or a week later I had called the vet up and said, I'd really like to have a conversation with you.

Walker Bird [00:37:51]:
Because it wasn't the vet, it was her assistant.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:53]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:37:53]:
You know, both about the overdosing and about that behavior. And that would be your teaching part.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:03]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:38:03]:
And I would have had. Had my voice. I would have stood up because he wasn't in, you know, he wasn't in immediate danger. If she'd moved to strike him, I would have intervened. But she certainly pulled her hand back. In any event, I think that would have been the best course of action. And so this, you know, is it that I wanted them to like me. Maybe part of me, maybe that hesitation in learning to be, you know, more mature and circumspect, you know, making intentional choices, the hesitation piece with.

Walker Bird [00:38:40]:
With so much. And then I think afterwards, probably just the trauma of the whole death part was overwhelming to have a rational conversation after the fact, but still, I wouldn't be where I am if I had at least followed up. So anyway, I'm probably getting off topic at this point, but it just. I guess what I'd ask you is, what do you think about that balance? You know, what is the balance in making intentional decisions in a moment like that? How do we get ourselves in that space? I guess we do the best we can.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:21]:
Yeah, babe, I mean, yes. The best we can. The reality is, I think it is lots of practice. Yeah, lots of practice. Lots of practice. You know, when I was younger, I definitely, you know, was loud and direct and said what was on my mind, and I. And I didn't, you know, take into consideration, you know, the impact. And then I do think, as part of my developmental process, I got quiet and didn't say things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:59]:
And I feel like I've just, I don't know, in the last, I don't know, five years, started learning how to do it more effectively. I mean, I think I still had a voice. It just wasn't as often, and it did take me a long time to get there. I think circumstances, the severity of the situation.

Walker Bird [00:40:41]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:43]:
You know, I think there's a lot to take into account, but I think practicing, you know, is the best that we can do. I think I'm, you know, better. I think about all the, you know, surgery stuff that I've shared, you know, like my conversation with that doctor with my last surgery. Right.

Walker Bird [00:41:05]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:05]:
You know, I could have lost my mind. I could have shut down. There's a lot of things I could have done. But instead, you know, I had really already set the stage for him to be connected to me and closer to me. And so when he told me that he had changed the plans for my surgery. Right. I was able to quickly say, if you don't do this today, I have to do this again. And that was, what do I need right now? What's most important to me?

Walker Bird [00:41:41]:
Right, Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:42]:
But it came quickly. But I think that's practice.

Walker Bird [00:41:47]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:47]:
A lot of practice. Because I ask myself that all the time. What's most important to me? What do I really want right now? I'm still learning. I mean, I. I think there's tons of growth that I have left in this area.

Walker Bird [00:42:08]:
We all do. Yeah, we all do. And just, you know, because I watched the conversation. Right. And there were. There are different paths you could have taken, like me or don't like me. Right. And.

Walker Bird [00:42:21]:
And it didn't matter to you if he didn't like you, but what mattered was building, you know, connection. You know, you took his hand. You started. Your tears welled up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:32]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:42:32]:
And you took his hand and you were curious.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:36]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:42:36]:
With him, way more effective than, you know, what, you know, being angry and. And that is the difference between going through those steps and practicing, you know, as, you know, over years of time. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:55]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:42:55]:
But it's. So you can go through the steps in the moment. Right. And it's more automatic to go to that space, contemplate for a minute, and approach it in a different way, even while speaking your direct truth, whether he liked it or not. Because being told that's not how we discussed it, I'm sure to a surgeon's ego was not easy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:21]:
Right, right. And so for me, again, what do I really want? What's most important for me? That I don't have to have this surgery again. Right. Because that would have been the third time. And what do I really want right now is to be heard.

Walker Bird [00:43:37]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:38]:
To be seen to be considered. And I don't. I can't have a conversation with the surgeon or then even, you know, expect him to perform his best if I take him down.

Walker Bird [00:43:53]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:53]:
Right. I mean, that's a very vulnerable place to be. Right. So the severity of it, you know, that was a. That was a big deal for me to go back into that surgery one more time. Right. And so, you know, I want, as best as I can, be prepared for those situations. And so practicing in my everyday life is the best that I can do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:30]:
Practice. Yeah. And releasing that, you know, there was something you said earlier, and I don't remember exactly what it was, but I was thinking, right. It's not about not caring. It's that I care more. Because I think we can say, well, I was just telling you the truth. Right. To me, that's not care.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:04]:
That's not care for you. That's just me. Right. It's like my permission slip to be an ass. Right. As opposed to I actually care about this interaction. I care about my integrity.

Walker Bird [00:45:19]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:20]:
I care. And so then I am more intentional.

Walker Bird [00:45:25]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:26]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:27]:
Yeah. As you're saying it, I. Can I see another, you know, continuing to practice the interaction with that veterinarian assistant, you know, I could have stepped in between them, and I could have put my hand on her shoulder and just said, you know, he really needs you to be kind right now. I need you to be kind.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:44]:
Yeah. Right. What are you afraid of?

Walker Bird [00:45:46]:
Yeah. He's. He's harmless. He has no capacity.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:50]:
Right, Right.

Walker Bird [00:45:53]:
He needs to go in peace. Something like that. And she would have learned so much from that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:58]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:59]:
Versus me screaming at her. Versus me talking to the boss the next day. That's. Getting yourself in that space to be able to, you know, you had that capacity with that doctor. And even with all my years of experience, I didn't have that capacity. And we were ready in the next time. I think now that we're talking about it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:23]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:46:23]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:24]:
I think you Know, when we go back to the freedom piece, babe, I think our abandonment stuff, you know, at least if somebody likes me, I won't be alone. Right?

Walker Bird [00:46:39]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:40]:
And so I think as we continue to do our work, as we continue to find multiple ways for our needs to get met, as we continue to build healthy relationship, I think that the fear of being disliked can go down because we have created this community of people who see me, hear me, value me. And so I think it's like, okay, well, I don't need to make sure everybody likes me. Right. Because I've built trust in myself. I've built trust in my relationship with others. Right.

Walker Bird [00:47:23]:
Yeah. I mean, going back to my example, you know, if I had done that and done it that way, stepped between them and calmly said those things, say she said F you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:35]:
Right. Well, you.

Walker Bird [00:47:36]:
I mean, at that point, it doesn't matter to me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:38]:
Right, Right.

Walker Bird [00:47:39]:
I've achieved what I needed to achieve. I protected my dog. I've used my voice. I've been kind, purposeful in the communication. So. Yeah. You know, and I guess what I'm saying is that is the space where it's. It doesn't matter if you like me.

Walker Bird [00:48:03]:
You know, I've had integrity in working towards being the best human I can be, but also having a voice saying my truth. And there are just so many different ways. Because the other way is I just keep envisioning a young child throwing a temper tantrum, you know, throwing down their toys, screaming, and it's really the same thing. I want you to hear me and see me. Right. And it's not very effective as adults. Right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:37]:
Nope.

Walker Bird [00:48:38]:
And it can take other forms too, like outright aggression. Yeah, right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:41]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:48:43]:
But anyway. Yeah, No, I appreciate the insight. Thanks.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:47]:
Yeah, yeah. I think it's our life's work. Agreed to get to that place of freedom where we have, where we're choosing to live life intentionally enough that we can release people pleasing or we can release no voice work we can release. Not throwing a tantrum or being aggressive, you know?

Walker Bird [00:49:26]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:26]:
You know, like, we can be settled in ourself and in our body, you know, learning to trust ourselves. This is all the work we're doing with my inner knowing is really trying to help people learn to trust themselves. Yeah, it is. It is diligent work. Yeah. Being in a relationship with people we can have honest conversation with that we know are going to be present with us as we grow. You know, I have to. I had a conversation with a client today, struggling down, you know, in a place they Wanted to be in that place.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:08]:
And, you know, I suggested something to try, and they got really quiet. And I said, what are you thinking? And they said, you don't want to know. I said, actually, I do. And she said, you're irritating me right now. And I said, that's okay. Yeah. I said, it's fine that I'm irritating you. I said, it really is something where I'm always having to find a balance between encouraging you, supporting you, and pushing you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:50]:
Because for me, if you like me all the time, then I'm not pushing you enough. And so I do want you to be okay. And I am sorry that you are struggling. And I said, sometimes people leave here and they're like, teresa doesn't know what she's fucking talking about. And I have to be okay with that, too.

Walker Bird [00:51:11]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:12]:
You know, I choose to be okay if. If I am not the right fit for someone.

Walker Bird [00:51:18]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. And to release it, like, it's okay. Not everybody is going to like me. I cannot be that person.

Walker Bird [00:51:30]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:30]:
It's not even possible. I mean, that's just a figment of our imagination that we can not. That we can get through life with everybody liking us. It's just not possible. It's not.

Walker Bird [00:51:42]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:43]:
So why put so much energy into something that isn't possible? Instead, put the energy into becoming integrous, thoughtful, present, responsible. Allow ourselves to be challenged.

Walker Bird [00:52:00]:
Well, and not be afraid to challenge, too. And to me, what's coming up as. Again, as we're speaking is I think that we can mistake or misunderstand what kindness means. Right. Because I can be kind while telling you what you're doing is not okay, or telling you that I disagree with you. I can still be kind. Right. And I.

Walker Bird [00:52:27]:
But I think, you know, and maybe this is a lesson for me that, you know, having that understanding, because I think the younger part of me thinks being kind is not rocking the boat, and that therefore, I need you to like me or I will be abandoned. So that's what kindness is. And that's not kindness.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:51]:
This.

Walker Bird [00:52:53]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:00]:
What?

Walker Bird [00:53:01]:
Just always learning.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:04]:
Always. Yes.

Walker Bird [00:53:07]:
I think I know it. And then we have these conversations, like, really? I think that's what I do sometimes. Maybe a lot. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:15]:
We're very complex. And the process of growth is messy, you know, having that expectation for ourselves. I was speaking to another client, you know, today, and they're really working on having a voice. And it's wonderful, you know, to watch them, you know, experiment and, you know, and they were sharing that, you know. Well, it doesn't always go very well. It's like going from no voice to a voice. It's going to be messy, right? It absolutely is going to be messy.

Walker Bird [00:53:48]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:48]:
And so when I sent you that information to Consider, it was really about just teaching you, you know, just keep practicing. Just keep practicing.

Walker Bird [00:53:58]:
What information did you send?

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:00]:
Well, I sent them.

Walker Bird [00:54:02]:
Oh, them?

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:03]:
Yeah, them. No, not you. Not you. No, I sent them information to, you know, consider, you know, when they're working on having a voice, you know, because it is just about teaching and practice. And I was like, don't stop. Don't stop. Like, regardless of people's reaction, you know, to that, you know, you're doing something you've never done before. To me, your responsibility is just learning to do it well and intentionally, not an expectation of perfection.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:34]:
And, I mean, because that's not helpful. Right. Just keep practicing. I think being honest with ourselves is one of the hardest things that we do, aside from being a parent. It is hard to be honest with ourselves. That really was not kind. It was not thoughtful. It was not intentional.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:57]:
It was careless, it was reactive. It was all kinds of things.

Walker Bird [00:55:04]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:08]:
Just keep practicing. There is freedom in being able to be disliked, for sure. But like I said, it's still there. Even if it's just for a moment. It just doesn't stick like it used to.

Walker Bird [00:55:28]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:28]:
But I put effort into not being careless with it.

Walker Bird [00:55:36]:
Right. It doesn't have to be scorched earth.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:39]:
Right. It does not.

Walker Bird [00:55:40]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:41]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:42]:
I think that that's a really important point and one that, you know, I've described it to you before, just that for me to overcome the hesitation, sometimes I go so far the other direction.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:58]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:58]:
You know, that it's just overt aggression to be able to say, this isn't okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:04]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:56:05]:
So, yeah. Achieving that balance, that maturity, that ability to not be liked, but to do it well. Right. Without being cruel.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:56:20]:
Responsibility.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:21]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:56:22]:
Responsibility is a really good word for it. How can I do this responsibly? And that answers a whole lot of the integrity stuff, et cetera. What a great conversation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:31]:
Thank you. Yeah, thank you, too. I love you.

Walker Bird [00:56:34]:
I love you, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:37]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth, and we strive to be more compassionate every day.