The Power of Self-Trust with Jess Arachchi

Jess Arachchi [00:00:00]:
It's ten days in silence. You're not allowed to make eye contact with anybody. You can't journal, you can't do exercise. You can't read. Although I got desperate enough and I read my toothpaste packet. But really, you know, this is. This is how desperate. This is how desperate your brain gets.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:17]:
That's awesome, Jess.

Walker Bird [00:00:23]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path. Well, hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:51]:
Well, hello. Hey, Jess. How are you?

Jess Arachchi [00:00:56]:
Hello. I'm doing so good. I'm doing great. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:01:00]:
Hi, Jess. We are just so happy that you've joined us. And just so our viewers know who you are a little bit, I'll start with the introduction. You're a family therapist and mom coach from Australia. Used to be a social worker, but branched out into, I think, more coaching and therapy that you appreciated because it wasn't so linear as the way that I took it. Could you tell us a little bit more about what you do?

Jess Arachchi [00:01:27]:
Yeah. That's so perfect. I love that you said, because, you know, the way that I do things is not so linear. And I think that's the magic of when you get to create in your own business and you get to create your own. Your own modality, so to speak, or your way of working and your concepts and everything, because it's not linear. Being human is not linear. And that's kind of the beautiful thing when you get used to it. So that's.

Jess Arachchi [00:01:53]:
That is perfect. I. Yes, I was a social worker. Look, it didn't. Didn't take me long to figure out that that wasn't the path for me. I think I've always had a bit of a. Yes, Passionate, yes. Motivated, yes.

Jess Arachchi [00:02:09]:
Ambitious, but also a bit of a rebellious streak within me and one which always wanted to look at the bigger picture of things. And I just felt within social work that it was very limiting for me. There was this box, and I'm just not a fan of boxes in any form at all. So it only took me a couple of years to realize that that wasn't the path for me. There was a few scenarios where I didn't agree with how we were working with families and working with children. I didn't agree with the interventions or the therapies that we were providing children that had experienced trauma. You know, if we knew anything about the brain and the body, we wouldn't be giving these interventions because we know that they don't work with trauma, traumatized nervous systems, especially in children. And so once I learned all of this, once I really went deeply down the path of brain development, child development, and the parent child relationship and how that creates our being, our sense of self, and our psychology and our biology and learn more about the nervous system.

Jess Arachchi [00:03:24]:
I couldn't go back. So I ventured out. I decided to quit not knowing what on earth I was going to do. I just decided maybe I should move to Italy. So. So I actually became an English teacher because I thought, I'll just go to Italy. That'll give me all the answers. Traveling usually does.

Jess Arachchi [00:03:43]:
And I got over there and it didn't give me the answer straight away, but I went on a big trek. I did that pilgrimage through Spain, the Camino trek. And shortly after I got my answer, I got my answer. And, you know, it did help that I had been experiencing my own panic and anxiety attacks just before I went overseas. So I had this real understanding of the body and the mind and I was experimenting with what would work quite desperately, actually. I was extremely frightened. I was so scared of being in my body. I was terrified, terrified, actually.

Jess Arachchi [00:04:24]:
Didn't want to wake up, you know, each day I was terrified. I'd never experienced anything like it before. And so I got to really experiment with what worked. And what I realized out of that was the power of connecting in with the body and feeling safe in the body was the missing link in everything that I'd been doing in the past. So I, I started my first business. I started working with kids, brought in yoga therapy and body therapies and, and again, shortly after, you know, another chapter opened where I was entering homes and realized it's not the kids, it's not the kids that, that, that need the support. It's the parents. The kids like me.

Jess Arachchi [00:05:05]:
Sure, they were having a good time with me, we were having some fun. But let's face it, kids don't want to be understood by a therapist or a yoga teacher. They want to deeply be connected to and understood by their parents. That's it. That, that will never change. So that's when I started to really delve deeper into the parent child relationship and, and developing a whole range of work and foundations to work with. Yeah, parents are now, now just mums. That's what I focus on.

Walker Bird [00:05:34]:
Sure, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:37]:
One of the podcast episodes that you were on, I don't Remember which one it was, Jess. But at the top it talked about your willingness to, as a parent, to get feedback from your kids. And I, I don't know, about 15 years ago, I started telling my kids, when you're an adult, there will be things you'll be upset with me about, things that I said, did, didn't do or didn't say. And all I ask is that when you're aware of how you've experienced harm from me, is that you come talk to me about it. And so that was very resonant.

Jess Arachchi [00:06:22]:
Wow. That, that's so gorgeous that. That's how you said it as well. Teresa. I think it's one of the biggest things that parents come to me with mums say to me, you know, only the other day I had one of my clients say, I feel like it's too late, Jess. I feel like I've completely, you know, ruined my children's lives and damaged them and it's too late. And, and this is the point of why I always bring up that. What you've shared, Teresa, because it actually doesn't matter who we've been in our parenting journey.

Jess Arachchi [00:06:57]:
Yes, it does, of course. But when we're trying to do our best, what matters is like what you said so beautifully, when you become aware of how something I did or didn't do impacted you, the ability to express that sets you both free because all we're doing is giving it a voice, allowing it to be heard and allowing both parties to feel understood within that. Because, you know, I was angry at my mom for many, many, many years. She wasn't silly. She knew, right? She. She could feel it. She knew there was something within me that was. I was furious at her.

Jess Arachchi [00:07:40]:
I hadn't forgiven her for something. I was so angry. And I used to say, no, I love you, mom. I'm fine, everything's fine. But then I learned, I discovered what it really was. And it wasn't until I could express it to her that it allowed both of us to be set free. And that's when a deeper connection can happen. So it's.

Jess Arachchi [00:08:04]:
That is the key, that is the most powerful thing we can do as parents when our children are, yeah. Of an adult age that can understand themselves.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:17]:
Yes. A journey. We never stop traveling.

Jess Arachchi [00:08:24]:
Never, never. I've been in rooms with like 17, 80 year old people and older, and they're still journeying. What they are so just heartbroken over with their parents, what they, they never got to express or what they haven't accepted. It's really that what they, they haven't accepted who their parents were and who their parents weren't. And I share this story often when I'm asked about this, and this is what helped bring my light bulb moments online. I was in this room full of about. It was probably about 150 people. And the facilitator said, can I get everybody to the front of the room who is between 20 and 24? Right.

Jess Arachchi [00:09:15]:
No, sorry. She said, 18 to 24. So all of these people got up to the front and we're sitting there and she allowed us some minutes and she said, okay, I want you to be really aware of all the judgments you just made. Okay. How they're dressed, how they're standing, how they appear to you. What do you think their personality is like? What do you think they're capable of? And she said, you need to know that most of your parents were this age when they had you. And it was that, that moment that I started to ask some better questions of myself. That was a really powerful moment for me.

Walker Bird [00:09:55]:
Yeah, it's beautiful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:02]:
Parenting. I say it's the hardest thing that will ever do.

Walker Bird [00:10:08]:
When you open that Mamma Mia. When you open that pathway with clients to start teaching them about having those sorts of discussions, what do you do to prepare them for handling it well, as far as reactivity, when you hear your child's truth, whatever their truth may.

Jess Arachchi [00:10:32]:
Be, I suppose the greatest thing that I can do for them is speak into the worst fears that they have. So we, and we unravel the worst fears, the worst things that they could hear. What are they scared of hearing? What are they scared that that means about their children, but also about them. And when you speak into that, again, we're just allowing this piece of themselves and these fears of their nervous system, by the way, right. These are, these are the fears of the nervous system, the survival mechanisms of who they should or shouldn't be, what's right or wrong, what will keep them alive, what's going help them survive. This is all the fears talking. But when you get it out, when it's seen by me, in that moment, heard by me, somebody who's non judgmental, they can just voice it because most of the time it's not voiced. It's, it's, you know, we tend to shut down the most of the scariest thoughts that we have.

Jess Arachchi [00:11:39]:
We don't share them. And so that in itself gets them prepared because then once they voice their fears, all of the nervous system sensations start to come to the surface and then we feel into that then I guide them through that experience and help them see it's just a sensation in the body. And then we go into some body work to help them have a few tools to bring them back, back to some kind of balance in their body. But yeah, usually, Walker, it's just speaking into the worst outcome they can possibly imagine.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:19]:
Yep, I agree.

Walker Bird [00:12:23]:
Practice, and then you'll hear something you didn't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:25]:
Yeah, well, it's funny because I.

Walker Bird [00:12:29]:
Speaking from experience.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:30]:
Yeah, right. And I, I add that at the end as I say the things that you're upset with me about, I may not remember. And the things that. Oh, shoot, now I'm trying to remember how we say it. Oh, and the things that I'm worried you're upset about, you may not remember.

Jess Arachchi [00:12:48]:
Oh, yeah, I love that. That is, Isn't that always the case? Just always the case. That's the truth. That's the truth.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:58]:
Oh, yeah. Because what we value is very, very different.

Jess Arachchi [00:13:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. And the stories we have.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:08]:
Yes. Yeah. So for you, Jess, when you think about this journey, for you personally, how do you. Well, when do you remember that you started even paying attention to yourself and your thoughts and your process?

Jess Arachchi [00:13:39]:
There was a pretty defining moment. And as you both would know, I think there's, there's always a few. And it in it forever will be those moments that come through, which is the beautiful thing. But there's one moment that I remember and I was, I was 27 and I'd just gotten out of an eight year relationship. We were engaged to be married. And, you know, we got together when I was 19, so I was so young. Actually had no idea on what a healthy relationship looked like, what it felt like, how to create it. No clue at all.

Jess Arachchi [00:14:20]:
I was running blind. And I believe he was too. Um, we didn't, you know, not even my aunties and uncles or grandparents. Like, there just wasn't any, any healthy, loving relationships around me that I, that I saw or grow up with. And you know, coming from a home where there was a lot of unpredictability and chaos and instability and, you know, quite horrible at times. So I didn't learn anything from my parents in, in the healthy way about relationships, intimacy. And so at eight years, I decided that I needed to end it. And that was probably one of the scariest decisions I've ever made in my whole entire life because I'd grow.

Jess Arachchi [00:15:08]:
We'd grown up together, you know, from 19 to 27. It's a lot of growing up in those younger years and I was terrified. But I remember asking myself the question, what is scarier right now? A life of this or leaping into the unknown? Because I think, and, and it's interesting when I say that out loud, I kind of feel like that's the question that you repetitively, repetitively ask throughout your life. It's, it's, is it this or is it I need to be in the unknown? And it's usually the fear of the unknown that has us stay right just in the familiar. So I think that question really made it obvious to me that the unknown was less scary. And that was pivotal, pivotal for me. So, so I ended it and I went and saw a documentary film within this time of my life. And it was called E Motion.

Jess Arachchi [00:16:05]:
And there were people like Joe Dispenza in it and a few other people that are probably doing really well now. But back then they were probably unknown. And for the first time I started to hear these new concepts around energy and the unconscious mind and thought patterns. And you know when you just hear something and it speaks so true to who you are or where you're going and your whole body, body just gets electric with this inner knowing, you just know that this is true for you. And I had that moment and it was the first moment that I started to think to myself, I need to be responsible for my thoughts, I need to become responsible for my energy. This is a thing, this is real. I need to decide how I want my life to go. Because at that point I'd always blamed him or I'd always blamed the outside world for everything, right.

Jess Arachchi [00:17:11]:
And at that point I realized, wow, I've created this. Like my unconscious mind has created this, my body has created this, my energy has created this, my mind was blown. So from that point I kind of became pretty addicted to this whole journey of self discovery and, and learning about the nervous system, the unconscious mind, what it all means for me, my parent, my relationship to my parents and my childhood. I'd already been pretty addicted to that by then. But even more so, it was the first time that I realized I've got to start taking responsibility for my thoughts and my energy. So that, yeah, that was, that's my earliest memory of it being. Yeah, it felt big. It felt big in that moment for me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:02]:
Yeah, yeah, it was obviously.

Jess Arachchi [00:18:07]:
Yeah, yeah. Relationships have a good way of doing that as well.

Walker Bird [00:18:13]:
So do big decisions and.

Jess Arachchi [00:18:18]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They always lead to the greatest thing, greatest outcomes I've found so far.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:27]:
Yeah, I agree.

Walker Bird [00:18:29]:
So when you said when you went on this trip and you, you hiked the Camino in Spain. You said you were terrified of being in your body. What, what was that like for you? And how did you find a.

Jess Arachchi [00:18:53]:
It was. So when I started getting those sensations in my body, like the anxiety and the panic attacks, I spent probably five days at my mum's house in bed, in darkness. I, I couldn't even. The thought of going outside and venturing into the world was just too much for me. I couldn't bear. Felt like there was a, you know, an elephant stampeding on my chest and, and I was really scared to be alone. So. Destruction, destruction.

Jess Arachchi [00:19:25]:
I needed destruction. And, and I went to the doctor, you know, I did all the, you know, bunny ears, right. Things. I went to the doctor and, and she said, well, it could be anxiety and here are your meds. And I, I took them. I took, you know, I filled the script and I, I got it filled and I took a tablet one day and. But I just knew that that wasn't the path for me. I knew that that wasn't the journey for me in supporting myself to get through this.

Jess Arachchi [00:20:02]:
I was, I was desperate, of course, so I did it. I needed to feel some freedom in my body, but I threw them in the bin and, and then I left for Italy, still really terrified in my body. And I decided, well, if I'm going to do something, it needs to be something that's aligned with who I am. And who I am is somebody who believes in yoga and meditation. You know, they've always called to me, they've always spoken to me, they've always felt really supportive to me. So I leaned on them heavily. And it probably took, honestly, when I started committing to the process of it, it probably took me about a month to really trust myself again, to really trust my body again, that it wasn't going to have me flip out and feel fearful all day, every day. And I, I was so desperate for it to work too.

Jess Arachchi [00:21:03]:
And that's what I was so committed at the same time. So I really relied on meditation and yoga at that point. And, and that's, yeah, that's, that's when I realized the power of the body. I had this real life example of how scary it can be and also how changing our relationship to those scary sensations can set us free. And everyone that I'd been working with up until that point was experiencing their different levels of fear in their body. And, and we still do on a daily basis. You know, the humans do, we do. This is all natural and normal as well.

Jess Arachchi [00:21:43]:
And I still do from time to Time, it's not, you know, I'm, I have a human body and it still does react like that sometimes, but the difference is, is that I'm not scared of it anymore. And that's been a really long, it's been a really interesting, long process. But that's, that's how it started, Walker. That's, that's the process that I had to go through to really understand it for myself.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:06]:
What have you found for yourself to be most helpful to get back into your body or to stay in your body when you are struggling?

Jess Arachchi [00:22:23]:
There's. Have you, have either of you heard of Vipassana? The ten day silent retreat? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've done that twice now. And so for everyone listening, that is, it's 10 days in silence. You're not allowed to make eye contact with anybody. You can't journal, you can't do exercise. You can't read. Although I got desperate enough and I read my toothpaste packet.

Jess Arachchi [00:22:52]:
Really? You know, this is, this is how desperate, this is how desperate your brain gets.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:00]:
That's awesome, Jess.

Jess Arachchi [00:23:01]:
I'm not kidding. And it wasn't just once. I was like, I probably missed a word. I'll read it again.

Walker Bird [00:23:11]:
It's great.

Jess Arachchi [00:23:12]:
And so you're in this, you're in this place and you meditate 10 hours a day and they guide you through each night. You watch a video and they're teaching you this practice of vipassana, this style of meditation. And it's really about getting control over your thoughts, understanding them, but then becoming equanimous with the sensations in your body. So it's about having no judgment over them. The, the perceived good or bad or ugly ones. And so these, this experience for me completely transformed my life, completely tipped it on its head. And each time that I've come out of Vipassana, somehow my world and my life just got 10 times more calm and peaceful and connected and loving. It's.

Jess Arachchi [00:24:07]:
It's incredible. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole entire life. Without a doubt. It's emotionally painful for me. Some people have physical reactions, but for me it's the emotional pain. You know, I would, I would tackle a barbed wire fence to get out of there in the first few days. And I did think about it in the beginning, right? To be alone with your thoughts and then, and then the sensations in your body that come up from that spiral that we're, that we're in sometimes the spiraling thoughts of fear. Everything that we fear in this world and about ourselves.

Jess Arachchi [00:24:42]:
Yeah, it's, it's, it's quite, it's quite horrifying in my opinion. But the freedom that it leads to once you understand this process is just amazing. So how do I come back? It's using, it's using that process, what, what I learned a lot in that and what I continue to learn logically, but then in my body, I feel like I need both. Some people may not need as much logic as I do, but I need to understand logic and then experience it too, is that I've got to come back to embracing the sensations. So I come. I come back to the body all of the time. And I've been practicing this a lot since becoming a mum because there's this extra. There's this extra force now of, of demands or pressure or unpredictability.

Jess Arachchi [00:25:39]:
Another arena where there's. You have lack of control. You know, there's all these lessons that you've got. So the moments where I can feel the volcano within me, either it's lack of sleep or just so much crying and screaming for that day. And, you know, I've reached my limit and I can feel the bubble in my body and I get to the point where you can feel. I know that my body wants to scream so that it releases all of the pressure and it can calm again. I feel that deeply in my body. I'm so aware of that.

Jess Arachchi [00:26:18]:
And so what I need to do is be completely silent and feel it. I've got to feel that sensation. I've got to. I use this word with all of my clients now and it's just. It brings a different view of the sensation. We just say, can I befriend it? Can I befriend you? Can I be friends with you? So that's what I have to do all the time when, when that's there for me. And it's a really foreign concept when nobody's asked us to do that or to delve into those uncomfortable sensations. So that's how I do it.

Jess Arachchi [00:26:52]:
It's. Yeah, I have to come back to the. The scary sensations and, and befriend and breathe and breathe. I come back to, you know, the breath, the feeling of the breath and, and trust that it's going to leave. Right? There's. There's this fear sometimes that those uncomfortable sensations will stick and stay, but they do move. They move through, they move on, they go. I used to be terrified of the depressive states that my body got to terrified and now I'm not anymore.

Jess Arachchi [00:27:27]:
I'm not terrified of them anymore. Because I know it passes. I know it goes. I've. I've altered my, my internal response to them. I don't feel the fear. I, I just feel like it's okay. I trust this will leave.

Jess Arachchi [00:27:44]:
It's just an experience. It's just a sensation, like joy. It's just the same. It's just going to pass. And that just takes a lot of practice. A lot of practice and trust. Yeah, that's how it's. Yeah, that's.

Jess Arachchi [00:28:00]:
That's what I do or isa to help.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:07]:
That journey of learning to trust yourself. What comes to you when I say that.

Jess Arachchi [00:28:23]:
I, for me, I've reached a new level of that since becoming a mom. And I don't know if that's. I don't believe it's a coincidence because I'm not that young. I mean, I'm young, but I'm not that young. I'm 37. I had my daughter. Yeah, I'm 37. Just 18 months ago.

Jess Arachchi [00:28:45]:
Right. So I'm, you know, I'm not a young, young mum. I'm, you know, I've lived a few, a couple of lives so far. But the self trust came in really strong when I became a mum. And, and I've been thinking about this even before we got on the call today. I don't know yet that I have the words to articulate the why. I just. There was this feeling, if I could describe it in any way, it was like I, I've got to experiment with everything that I believe to be true for the benefit of my daughter.

Jess Arachchi [00:29:28]:
It's. It really then became, well, this matters now, Jess. You know, this, this really matters. You know, how do you want to set your daughter up for her adulthood? How. How do you want that to go? And are you modeling everything that you believe to be true about yourself, the world? And more and more, it's just becoming so clear to me that we can believe anything to be true. It's really a choice when we become so aware of just how our body reacts to things and that it's just a survival mechanism and it doesn't need to mean anything. We give it the meaning. That's what our brain does.

Jess Arachchi [00:30:14]:
But it, it matters what we choose to believe. And I just think for my brain now, it has two really clean and clear pathways. I've got the pathway which is trusting my inner knowing and my inner voice. And this, this, I, I, you know, it's like the true nature of who I am or the fear and survival mechanisms. So they're they're the two pathways for me.

Walker Bird [00:30:51]:
You, you were talking about your inner knowing and, and I think you called it voice and this divergence between that and just regular body sensations. And I was going to ask you, how do you decide? Learn the difference?

Jess Arachchi [00:31:11]:
Yes, I've, I've learned this over many years and I got the language around it from my first ever business coach probably about eight years ago. But this is how it feels in my body. This is how I discern the difference. The my, my, my, this the path of my true self and my. And that inner voice is expansive and it's filled. You know, when I think about it, my body opens, it feels expansive and it feels filled with possibility. And you know, even in my body now, I can feel it. It's filled with possibility and limitless creation and freedom.

Jess Arachchi [00:32:00]:
And over here in the survival mechanisms is limitation and constriction. So in your body, those two things should be really, really easy to discern, right? One feels open, one feels closed off and constricted. And it's really not. It's so not easy to even choose the expansive path. Even then, even though your body's telling you that's. It doesn't mean that it's then simple and everything is forever beautiful and free and glorious and full of stars. It doesn't mean that at all. Because it's taken, it's taken me so long, I feel, to start trusting this path of the expansive sensations.

Jess Arachchi [00:32:57]:
It's taking me a long time and I, and I feel like it's catapulted since having my daughter because I've made the choice. I want to choose this path for her too. Right. I want to show her that this path is possible and it's worth trusting. That for me is so important for her. And so I've got to practice what I preach and I've got to do that for my clients too. I take my work really seriously because the impact that it has on homes and children and the relationship parents have with their children is my. Why it's so important to me.

Jess Arachchi [00:33:41]:
And I can't guide unless I'm living that too. I will not practice like that. I do not practice like that. So I have to do it. And I also find that's the beautiful thing about being in business, choosing your path. Because I like being held accountable to that too. I've got no way out either. So when things get tough, it's like, Jess, you know, you work with people and preach this and you have a daughter who you promised, you know, something really big To.

Jess Arachchi [00:34:11]:
And yourself more than anything. So it's time to make a choice. Which path. So that's. That's how I discern. But it certainly doesn't mean. Yeah. That all your problems go away.

Jess Arachchi [00:34:24]:
Because we can never, ever, ever underestimate the power of our survival instincts, which is to keep us safe, remain in predictability, have control. And that is the limiting path that I feel, and that is often the case. That's the limiting path that I see for me, but also for everyone I work with.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:34:56]:
What's coming up for you, Joseph Campbell?

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:59]:
Yes. For sure.

Walker Bird [00:35:02]:
One of Teresa's favorite quotes is the dark cave versus the tiger's lair.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:07]:
Is that something you're familiar with?

Jess Arachchi [00:35:10]:
Share? I mean, you saying that I've got visuals and I'm making my own meaning out of that, but. Yes, I'd love to hear it. Share it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:17]:
Share it with me. I don't know the quote exactly, but Joseph Campbell was the one who wrote about the hero's journey, so whether that's Lord of the Rings or Star wars or whatever. And so one of the quotes that he has is that essentially the dark cave holds the treasure that we seek, but we would rather choose the tiger's lair because it's known even if it will kill us, we will choose that over the unknown.

Jess Arachchi [00:35:48]:
So I just got goosebumps. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:35:52]:
It is profound, and I just think we have to continually work on it because it's just so easy as. As human beings to want the. The known. And I guess it seems like the easy path even when it's not.

Jess Arachchi [00:36:10]:
I know this is the conundrum of being human. It's such a conundrum, and it's a paradox and it's ironic, and it's. At some point, you've got to develop some kind of sense of humor with it because.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:24]:
Yeah.

Jess Arachchi [00:36:24]:
Otherwise we will. It'll just torment. Right. Yeah. It's. It's a torn. Yeah, yeah. It's a conundrum.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:36]:
Yeah.

Jess Arachchi [00:36:36]:
For sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:37]:
One of our sayings, Jess, is we're so complex and. Yeah. I say that to my clients all.

Walker Bird [00:36:44]:
The time and to each other and. Or for a lot of humanity.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:47]:
Yeah. We're so complex. We're so complex. Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:36:53]:
You name it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:53]:
Right. Exactly.

Jess Arachchi [00:36:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:55]:
Yes.

Jess Arachchi [00:36:56]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:56]:
We're so complex. Yeah. Or it's messy. That's another one. We say, like, good, it's messy. It's messy. Yeah. Like you were saying.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:04]:
I mean, it would be nice that once we had the awareness, we chose differently and it's just not that simple.

Jess Arachchi [00:37:15]:
Nice, nice. I'm curious for you both, the choice then between those two pathways or, you know, the out with the lion or in with the cave. What's it like for you at the moment? You know, has it. Does it, does it get more. Does it get. Yeah. What is it like for you both in, in that space with the choices? Right. The decisions?

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:44]:
Sure, sure.

Walker Bird [00:37:45]:
You go first.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:46]:
I was wondering, you know, just for me, I would say similarly, you know, expansive or contracted were words we've heard a lot since we started the podcast, people describing it that way. So for me, it wasn't those words, but they resonate as well. For me, what I felt in my body when I was clear, when I was listening to myself, was that I wasn't distracted by other stories. And I felt very settled in my body, so very grounded. And if it was not resonant for me, not my. It was a wanting, not knowing. I have a little bit of like, shake that happens in my body, so there's like a little bit of vibration that happens. And I think I became aware of that, oh, I don't know, 15 years ago.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:01]:
And I remember sitting there in this meeting going, what is is that? And then having this awareness that, you know, what was being offered to me wasn't resonant with myself, even though the offering was generous. And it felt very, I don't know, like I felt very chosen and very seen. And so it was interesting for me, you know, you know, like somebody that was in the meeting with me said, well, isn't that excitement? And I was like, I don't think so. I was like, I think that is something I need to pay attention to because I don't know that I know what that is. And then, and then in that being with myself and asking myself those questions, then I was clear this wasn't my path. So.

Jess Arachchi [00:39:52]:
Wow, I love that. It's so beautiful. So how amazing. You got to tune into your body. So, yeah. So clearly you've got that beautiful signal.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:04]:
Yeah, so. And I, I value the body. I talk about the body a lot. I'm not a, A trained somatic practitioner. Like, you know, a lot of people get trained in somatic experiencing. I don't have that training, but I did about 16 years ago get trained in what's called heart centered hypnotherapy. And there was a lot of body focus in that particular modality. And I think that that and breath work and psychodrama, there are a lot of very experiential modalities that I was trained in.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:39]:
That I think also were helpful. It's also where I learned to fire walk and do sweat lodge. And so there were a lot of body experiences that I had in that period of time as well that provided a lot of contrast to just my everyday life. So a lot of unknowns I stepped into in this like two year period where I was working very deeply on myself.

Jess Arachchi [00:41:12]:
I like that word contrast.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:17]:
So what about you?

Walker Bird [00:41:19]:
Well, you. Your description of the electrify, you know, if you felt electrified after watching emotion, and I would guess that that's another sign that you've had since at the right times, I have a tingle that goes up and down my spine when my soul is like, like this is it. And I go through periods where I get that feedback and then other periods of time where I don't. And so, but I do, I recognize that I get it when I'm in nature particularly. And I think I've denied that part of myself since I was a young man in college, like looking at career choices and things like that. Because when we go places in the mountains, you know, Colorado, or we were just in the Dolomites in Italy, it. My soul sings. And so I guess, you know, just looking at it.

Walker Bird [00:42:21]:
For me right now, the tiger's lair is being a trial lawyer, which I've done for 30 years. And the dark cave is, is finding the courage to take the leap into whatever is next. And it, you know, I want it to be productive. I don't want to say retirement. I like to say graduating from trial lawyer school. So. But that's, that's where I am right now. But I know that in talking about, we know better and we get the feedback from our body, yet still we remain.

Walker Bird [00:42:56]:
And I'm really good at being a trial lawyer. I. I am, but I have some. It was interesting when you were, I was inspired when you're saying, listen, I have to live this or I not, you know, I don't have integrity with myself, my clients or my child. And I still am able to provide value for my clients. But I, you know, I felt some shame and maybe I don't have integrity because I feel that way in the background that this is, you know, that's my body. Body is not singing. Saying, this is this fight for justice every day is what you should be doing.

Walker Bird [00:43:34]:
Right? My body sings when I'm out in nature.

Jess Arachchi [00:43:41]:
I can, I can feel that. I can feel that. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:43:44]:
So anyway, that's more of where I am right now, but it's also my process because I recognize like you Said the contraction, you know, when I. You start thinking and you get. Your body is tight and cramps up and your thoughts get smaller. All those things tell me, hey, that's not for me. So anyway, just. It's fascinating process, this. It is thing called life.

Jess Arachchi [00:44:15]:
Yeah. Thank you both for sharing that. That's interesting.

Walker Bird [00:44:18]:
I've also noticed one thing that I talk about a lot is we. We took a meditation. A meditation teacher training course with Jack Cornfield and Tara Brock. That was a couple year course online. And you know, the big, biggest takeaway or the primary thing that I use now is just gaining enough space to between. What is it called?

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:46]:
The pause.

Walker Bird [00:44:47]:
Yeah, the pause between stimulus and response. And I try to practice that. That's where I'm able to try to, you know, find the grounding and touch back in with the body. So that's, you know, on a daily basis. I have to go there. Yeah, it's kind of how I regulate.

Jess Arachchi [00:45:07]:
Yeah. I think your brain goes through so many different processes in that pause that we might not give credit to it. Is there a lot that goes on in that, in that pose period?

Walker Bird [00:45:21]:
I was interested in the Vasana retreats that you did. We had to do one of those to qualify to take the course with them. But they interspersed the meditation periods with Dharma talks and some small group interaction. And I just. You said you would watch educational films, but he didn't know if you. There were Dharma talks and there actually was interaction or if it was just you were silent and no eye contact.

Jess Arachchi [00:45:53]:
Completely silent. Yeah, completely silent. There's. There's zero interaction for the entire 10 days. Yeah, you have, you have, you have a, A manager that watches over you all, so to speak. And sure, if there's some kind of urgent thing, then of course you can, you know, talk to the head teacher. But if you're struggling with the practice, you can do that at a certain time each day. It's just from 12 to 12:30 you can ask a question in your private room with her, but other than that, there's nothing.

Jess Arachchi [00:46:25]:
And you have a Dharma talk. It goes for an hour and a half from. Yeah. Like 8:30 to 10 at night time, something like that. But that's, that's the only. Yeah. Stimuli, so to speak, those 10 days. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:46:44]:
Did you do that at Buddhist retreat centers in Australia?

Jess Arachchi [00:46:48]:
Yeah, there's one not far from me. And I, I see that they've got so many over the world, which is so awesome. It's a. Yeah, it is a Buddhist meditation center set up by Goenka So SN Goenka, who's the founder of the. That movement in. In the world. And it's been there for quite some time now, but it's. Yeah, it's gorgeous.

Jess Arachchi [00:47:13]:
It's just in nature. And if you're just wandering through the day, you just see kangaroos and you hear nothing but birds, so, you know, more stillness and silence to be with your scary thoughts, but, you know, with nature to support you somehow in its own way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:36]:
Yeah. What's the name of the place near you?

Jess Arachchi [00:47:40]:
It's. It's in Pomona, Sunshine Coast. And I. I don't know the name of the center. I just usually always look up Vipassana, Sunshine Coast, Pomona. And it just comes up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:56]:
Okay, we can look it up.

Jess Arachchi [00:47:58]:
Yeah, but it's. Yeah, now they've got them all over the world, and it's. Yeah, it just feels really authentic. Very authentic. There's nothing salesy or marketing about it. It's, you know, it's not that space. They've kept true to the essence of what they teach, which in this world is difficult to do when you need. When you need money to do things and sustain things.

Walker Bird [00:48:25]:
Right.

Jess Arachchi [00:48:26]:
And so they've. They've done a beautiful job.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:29]:
That's wonderful. Yeah.

Jess Arachchi [00:48:31]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:32]:
When you think, Jess, about sharing resources for people that you think have been helpful for you on your journey, what comes to mind?

Jess Arachchi [00:48:51]:
I think for me, honestly, that. That. That documentary emotion, definitely the first couple of books I started reading, one called the Chimp Paradox, which really helped me understand the emotion center of the brain and reactions and the nervous system and fear and thoughts and all of that. That was huge for me. It really helped my brain start understanding myself better and. And be a bit more compassionate towards myself, too, which is definitely what we need to do more of.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:24]:
Yeah.

Jess Arachchi [00:49:25]:
So any. Any other resources? I think, yeah, I. I think definitely those. Those so far that I've said, I honestly, I really do believe anything to do with meditation is. Is just so empowering. I really. I really do. I will say this thought has come to my mind, so I will just share it.

Jess Arachchi [00:49:53]:
I honestly think one of the greatest resources is having the people around you that absolutely believe in what you're trying to achieve for yourself. I really think you can be reading the books, listening to the podcasts, you can be doing all of those things, but your environment with who you're spending the most time with, who you're listening to the most, you know, the intimate, you know, friendships, family, relationships, or all of them, it really matters. Also, the professionals that you get support from as well. Right. If you're. If your doctors or therapists don't believe in what you're trying to achieve for your life, you're never getting there. You're just not. So I.

Jess Arachchi [00:50:39]:
I really do believe, and I started doing this process quite a few years ago now, where I decided anyone in my life that is not truly aligned with the highest version of myself, then there is no space or place for them anymore. And this, this, this was from a place of, like, you know, not. Not. It kind of sounds heartless when you say that, but I do think we need to be protective of our time and our energy. And our greatest resource is time. And then above that is who we're spending that time with and who is speaking to us and who are we sharing with, who's reflecting back to us, what we're saying or what we're experiencing in this reality. So the greatest resource as well is the people that you confide in, the people that are with you on this journey. What do they believe in? What do they deny is true? What do they deny is possible? Because you will live into that.

Jess Arachchi [00:51:45]:
And the greatest shifts have always come for me when I'm. When I'm surrounded or supported by the people who believe in endless possibility as well, that believe in. So much is available to us, healing is possible, love is safe. You know, parenting can be enjoyable. You know, these things matter. It really does matter. So I think above all, that really is one of the greatest resources that we can consider and think about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:22]:
Yeah. So true and so powerful.

Walker Bird [00:52:26]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:27]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:29]:
Jess, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us. It's like the hour goes so fast, it's crazy. I feel like we had a lot more ground to cover, but covered a lot of ground, so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:40]:
Yes. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:41]:
Just want to thank you for your time and for spending it with us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:45]:
Yeah. When you.

Jess Arachchi [00:52:47]:
Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:48]:
As we wrap up, is there something. If you were going to send out an intention to the people listening today, what would it be?

Jess Arachchi [00:53:10]:
When in doubt, come back to self. There's many scenarios in this world where we're focused on somebody else or something else or trying to fix a problem, trying to avoid a problem, trying to fix somebody else, whatever it is. When in doubt, when in a state of confusion, uncertainty, coming back to self will be the greatest stabilizer and creator of clarity that there can be. So when in doubt, come back to self. And what that means in reality is focus on what you need, Focus on what brings you joy, focus on what has you feel alive and grateful. Whatever that is, Whatever you need to do. Whatever you need to say no to, whatever you need to say yes to. Focus on self, because that will always steer you in the right direction.

Jess Arachchi [00:54:12]:
Either noise will distract you. Stillness with self will guide you in. In the way that serves you at the highest good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:27]:
Thank you.

Walker Bird [00:54:28]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:28]:
Thank you.

Jess Arachchi [00:54:29]:
Thank you both. Thanks for having me here. Thank you. It's been such a nice conversation with you both.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:34]:
Yeah. Well, we look forward to seeing what comes next for you. Yeah.

Jess Arachchi [00:54:39]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:42]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth, and we strive to be more compassionate every day.