The Refuge That Pointed Me Back to Myself

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:00]:
And it was just really nice.

Walker Bird [00:00:01]:
What's the emotion there?

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:07]:
Brave women. They were both very brave. And I work hard, I think, to be brave. So I would say some emotional resonance. And they were just, you know, like they were gifts. Right. Because we didn't know they were there. You know, we just went in and was like, oh, this is so nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:33]:
And then just walking around very quietly to see them and read about them. It was just lovely.

Walker Bird [00:00:47]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Walker Bird [00:01:15]:
Well, hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:15]:
Well, hello.

Walker Bird [00:01:17]:
How are you?

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:18]:
I'm well, how are you?

Walker Bird [00:01:20]:
Switching roles today? How'd I do?

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:23]:
You did great.

Walker Bird [00:01:25]:
So we're still on creativity and adventure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:27]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:01:28]:
And we've had two episodes where I've shared my experience of that. And I love to tell stories, and I like to actually listen to my stories after I've told them, but I need to hear what creativity and adventure is from your perspective. So we had this amazing trip this summer, and last episode, we said we were going to get into it, and now it's on to you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:01:52]:
What was all that about? Why did you. You. It was your idea completely. So maybe we start at the very beginning.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:58]:
Yeah, that's a great question. This is what I. This is what I know about travel with the kids is it's always been fun, and it's always been an adventure. The kids are great travelers. And, you know, we've gone various places throughout the United States. We used to go to Colorado a lot, and the kids would just climb up rocks, you know, it was just nice. And then we've taken some other trips as they've gotten older, and they're just no less fun, you know, and so a year ago, I guess it was about a year ago, I said that I wasn't sure how many family vacations we would have left with the kids continuing to grow and, you know, get married and just everybody having their own life and their own family and.

Walker Bird [00:03:15]:
So the wings are flapping.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I asked them if they wanted to go to Italy or Germany, which is not something we had ever done. And interestingly enough, they all said Italy.

Walker Bird [00:03:32]:
It was unanimous.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:33]:
It was. It was surprising because I actually thought they would all picture me. And so. And I've been to Germany once, and it was a really great experience with my friend Nancy probably about 10 years ago. And so, so I didn't really know, you know, what to expect or how to prepare or what things would cost or, or, or, or a lot of things. But I started the process and knew that I wanted. I wanted mostly to see Italy outside of cities. That that piece wasn't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:18]:
That the cities weren't as significant for me. I wanted to see the country. But we did fly into Paris because some kids wanted to go to Paris. And we did and it was, you know, lovely. I did not go up in the Eiffel Tower because that is very anxiety producing for me. But I did go up to the. What they call the second floor, which may be the 20th floor, but. Cause the second floor is not close to the ground.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:53]:
And I hung out there while you guys went up and took some video. And it's high too. Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:04:58]:
I didn't know how high it is, but it's high.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:00]:
Is it?

Walker Bird [00:05:01]:
Yeah. But I. I'm going to interrupt. You talk about the adventure piece. You know, sometimes adventure can be challenging ourselves.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:09]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:05:12]:
If you share a little bit about what that, you know, the challenge of that and the experience in, in actually doing it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:19]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:05:20]:
If you care to. Sure, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:26]:
I did not struggle with heights until I got pregnant the first time. And then I don't actually know what happened, but there has to be like some chemical something that shifts in your body. Because I was quite the daredevil before that. And so heights for me has just been something that my body has struggled with since then. And what was interesting is because we hadn't been in the Eiffel Tower before. Right. We didn't have that experience. We didn't actually know what was coming.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:58]:
Right. So we get in and we think we're going to the platform that I'm gonna get off on. But then we just. We get in the elevator. Elevator, elevator. Right, right. Which is also difficult, but it has windows all around. And so that is more helpful for me when there are windows around.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:21]:
And it was a bigger elevator, but it kept going. And then I was like, we're next to each other. Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:06:32]:
And I'm looking at you and you're looking at me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:34]:
Right. And I'm like, fuck, I'm going to the top. This is not what I wanted to do.

Walker Bird [00:06:39]:
And I'm saying, oh, shit. I talked her into getting on this thing because it was a long way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:45]:
It was a long way to the second floor.

Walker Bird [00:06:48]:
Yeah, I know, crazy. But go ahead.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:51]:
And so. So I was really just trying to ground myself and center myself and, like, how am I going to do this, like, physically and be okay? And then it stopped on the second floor, and then I was like, whew, okay. And that was high up anyway, but it was grounded. And there's shops and little, you know, food places in there. And so once I was out there, you know, I was okay. And then you guys, I think, got on another elevator, right? That took you all the way to the top.

Walker Bird [00:07:29]:
All the way to the top, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:30]:
Yeah. And so I went out and, you know, I didn't stay inside it. I did go outside and sit on a bench for a while and took some video and. And really just enjoyed that and. And that was enough, you know, for me. I got some gifts for some people and. And at this point, I don't shame myself. I don't have regret about not going.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:06]:
I really have worked on finding that line so far with my body. Like, when I put myself in an unknown situation, what is enough fear that will help me grow versus so much that I will shut down and not grow. I'll just be somewhat dissociative is what I. Traumatized, right. But dissociative. My body would have some reaction that would be significant enough that, you know, I would look like I was there, but I wouldn't be there because all of my internal resources would be going towards me, trying to tell myself, I'm not going to die. Right, Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:57]:
Yeah. So. So there is that piece of stepping into the unknown, the adventure that I'm, you know, aware of when I am in those places where I don't know what's happening. And then.

Walker Bird [00:09:17]:
Let me ask you this real quick. So you made it. And I didn't even think about shame for not going up to the top. I was just so proud of you for making it to that second stage. And then we call it second floor, but it was way up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:33]:
It's high. It is high.

Walker Bird [00:09:35]:
And I was so glad that we stopped there. But you know, what growth piece you know, you were talking about, you are. Have learned or are still learning to, you know, find where the edges are. Right. And maybe push the edges for growth. So that was an edge, I'm guessing. What did you learn from that, from that adventure?

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:09]:
What I learned from that adventure really was, you know, in the elevator that I could maintain enough awareness in something that felt so frightening that I could make choice to do what I needed to do to take care of myself, which was not press the emergency stop button. Right.

Walker Bird [00:10:37]:
Was there one?

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:37]:
I don't know. I don't know. Maybe.

Walker Bird [00:10:44]:
There was an elevator operator in there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:46]:
Oh, there was an elevator operator in there, right? Yeah. But to choose other things that really were about taking care of myself, not moving towards an expectation that something outside of me needed to fix this. So not shut down, not become so dissociative. I was shutting down and to not need to be rescued. And so for me, it was like, okay, we're going to the top. What do you need to do to take care of yourself right now? And so I think what I did was. I think there were, like, bars above us, you know, And I think I just held on to both of them, and I was just breathing grounding. Breathing grounding.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:37]:
I think having that kind of, like, above and below part of standing, but also holding, I think was helpful for me. Yeah, I think that's what I learned about myself during that experience. Okay. Yeah. So.

Walker Bird [00:11:58]:
That was just day one.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:59]:
That was day one. That was day one dot yeah. You know, we did tours. There was. It seemed like there was a few things we didn't get to do that we had planned. Isn't that funny? Now I can't even remember what they were. I know we didn't get to take a golf cart tour because it rained one day while we were there, and that was the day of the golf cart tour. We did do one, you know, the next day that wasn't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:30]:
Wasn't quite the same, but we did get to see a lot of things. And then we went to. We flew from Paris to Rome. That was an adventure.

Walker Bird [00:12:42]:
Yeah. What about it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:44]:
I realized the night before that our driver that I had arranged was taking us to the wrong airport.

Walker Bird [00:12:50]:
Ah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:51]:
And so had I not realized that, and we would have ended up at the wrong airport.

Walker Bird [00:13:00]:
Strangers in a strange land. Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:02]:
Yeah. You know, because I just didn't know. And so I was grateful to have figured that out. The reality was, is that the driving car company that took us, because there were seven of us, never responded, confirming the reservation. So I didn't actually know until they showed up the next day if we even had a ride to the airport. And so. But we did, and it all. Everything worked out.

Walker Bird [00:13:31]:
What made you even figure it out that we were headed to the wrong airport?

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:35]:
When we were driving around, I saw a sign for an airport, and it wasn't the airport we flew in on. And I thought, there's two airports is really what it was. And so then I went to our itinerary, and I was like, well, shit, that is a different airport than we Flew in.

Walker Bird [00:13:57]:
Okay. Fascinating.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:58]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:13:59]:
Do you think that was like intervention? Seriously, what are the chances?

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:07]:
Yeah, I didn't think about it that way. I just. I. Yeah, I just credited my. I told myself that visually, I must have remembered it, the name of it, even if I didn't have a conscious memory of the airport.

Walker Bird [00:14:24]:
Sure. And then seeing the sign.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:26]:
And then seeing the sign jogged it, is what I told myself it was about. So I was grateful for that. Grateful that they showed up the next morning to take us to the airport. Otherwise. Because it wasn't a short drive to the airport from where we were either.

Walker Bird [00:14:42]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:42]:
That it was over an hour. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:14:45]:
And so because we had to split into two.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:49]:
Split into two. And we took two Ubers to an airport that was over an hour away. So anyway, it was. And then getting to the airport, we were in the wrong terminal because the online information wasn't the same as what was in the airport when you got in there. Do you remember that?

Walker Bird [00:15:03]:
Oh, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:04]:
And you were like looking at the board.

Walker Bird [00:15:05]:
I think it's over there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:06]:
Yeah, yeah. So. But we made it in just enough time to get through security and everything that they were boarding as we just started. As we walked up. So it worked out.

Walker Bird [00:15:17]:
It was. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't scary, but it was close.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:21]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:22]:
Wasn't scary, but it was like running. We didn't have to run.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:24]:
We didn't have to run. No.

Walker Bird [00:15:26]:
Maybe we should have.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:28]:
No, it all worked out. It did. So for me, it is, you know, paying attention to some degree in new places. And I think finding the balance between paying attention and being able to be present with where you are, I think is exhausting. I think that the, you know, really, the resilience. I feel like if everybody was really good. There was one event on our tour that we weren't able to go to. And I don't remember the name of the basilica we were going in, but the long was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:05]:
The line was really long. It was our first day. We were exhausted. I don't know if you remember that. And the guide was like, well, do you want to go wait in line for that church? Or there's this one across the street.

Walker Bird [00:16:19]:
That was up at Montmartre.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:20]:
Oh, is that where it was? Okay. Or there's this one across the street that's like a thousand years old and it's small and it's not typically where people go, but it's really cool. And I was like, of course we want to go in the thousand year old church versus the three or four hundred Year old church. Of course we do.

Walker Bird [00:16:35]:
Right. Montmartre is the big Catholic cathedral that he said was competing with the Eiffel. The Eiffel Tower was competing taller. It was like secular versus religious. Anyway, it was a competition between religion and non religion Freemasons basically. But in any event, he offers the thousand year old medieval church, which was amazing. Tell us more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:03]:
Well, I just remember walking in and it was probably the first time I felt like I had breathed in a day and a half, maybe two days because there was just something about the energy in that church that was different.

Walker Bird [00:17:24]:
Tell us more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:25]:
I don't know that I could tell you exactly, but it was different even than Notre Dame, which we did get to go to. And while that was magnificent in structure, the energy of that one was, I don't know, kind, peaceful, quiet, reverent. It was just different. It was just different.

Walker Bird [00:17:54]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:54]:
And it was sweet. Luke sat down and fell asleep in one of the pews like immediately. And I went and lit some candles. There was a St. Teresa, I don't know what you call them, but like a statue with candles. And then Joan of Arc was in there. And so I actually lit candles for both of them and it was just really nice.

Walker Bird [00:18:18]:
What's the emotion there?

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:24]:
Brave women. They were both very brave. And I work hard, I think, to be brave. So I would say some emotional resonance. And they were just, you know, like they were gifts. Right. Because we didn't know they were there. You know, we just went in and was like, oh, this is so nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:50]:
And then just walking around very quietly to see them and read about them. It was just lovely. Yeah, and our guide loved it too. And he was super sweet guy and he took us into this 24 Michelin star chocolate shop, little bitty place. He was just telling us about it and I was like, can we go in there? And he's like, really? And I was like, yes. Why would we not want to go into a place that sells chocolate, chocolate that has 24 Michelin stars. And so. And it was lovely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:28]:
Just this little hole in the wall place. And it was really nice to talk to the man that was there, you know, him explaining everything to us and telling the man's story, you know, that owns and makes the chocolate. It was just lovely. And so I would say, I mean, so maybe this is unusual, but I enjoyed that little church and the chocolate place more than I enjoyed the bigger touristy places.

Walker Bird [00:19:58]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:00]:
Because I think they're not big touristy places, they're these, you know, I don't know, still, it's funny because the word that comes to me is innocent, but I don't know that that's really what I would. What I would use if I thought, if I spent time really reflecting on it. But that's what came to mind. They're not trying so hard. How about that? Yeah. And I feel like that's always.

Walker Bird [00:20:43]:
The.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:43]:
Journey that I'm on. It is so different, even with the podcast. Right. And those are conversations, you know, that we have where, like, there's that, like, part that's like, if I'm going to do something, I have to do it well. And what does well look like? And well, for me sometimes can be a little bit too professional, because I think growing up there was some, you know, story, and I'm not. This is not any regret, but professional was, like an expectation. And so, like, even in our podcast, right, like, as we've gone through this and, you know, our set is professional, you know, even as we change it and we're going to this fall, that awareness, for me, like, this isn't how you and I talk. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:41]:
I mean, like, we do, and we do it here, but that's not how we do it when we're not here, right? We. You have a chair that sits on one side of the fireplace. I have a chair if I can.

Walker Bird [00:21:49]:
Get it these days. Luke moved back in.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:55]:
Luke likes to chair my chair.

Walker Bird [00:21:58]:
I was like, man, I should have put my name tag on there, I guess. I love it that he wants to have conversation with you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:06]:
Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:22:07]:
But anyway, it's still funny how we get territorial. Wait a minute.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:11]:
That's my chair.

Walker Bird [00:22:14]:
Plus, it's closest to you. Maybe everybody wants you. Anyway, go on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:21]:
Thanks, baba. Maybe we need to rearrange the living room. So, anyway. But this is not how we speak to each other when we're not here. And so for me, even that awareness of I want this. I mean, our conversations are what we have outside of here. But this is beautiful and we love it, and it's not really reflective of how we engage outside of here. And so for me, it's, you know, I mean, I think my home is beautiful, too, but it's a different beautiful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:03]:
It is. It is. There's a. I don't know, a softness to it, even more than the space that I want to go towards. And so I think, you know, for me, I'm always going to go back to what feels right in my body, even if on the way, I'm not so clear. And. And I feel like, you know, things need to be a certain way in order to have value. And so I always come back to that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:52]:
So. So those little places that we went to, you know, maybe they were big and huge at one point and they've come back to that, but they're not that now, but they're still lovely. Yeah. So. And then, then we went to Rome and.

Walker Bird [00:24:19]:
Nice try. Yes. There's a whole lot going on there. I'm interested in what, what do you think you learned from seeing the contrast between the thousand year old medieval church and the 400-year-old Montmartre place that's swarmed with tourists, or Notre Dame, which has been rebuilt after the devastating fire. It was beautiful inside, but it had changed drastically, I will tell you. But there's some learning associated with that that's bringing out some emotion in you and drawing comparison between those and where you are when you create.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:11]:
Well, what comes to mind when you ask the question is there's always, always in me. There is always in me a desire to create places of refuge for people. So I want people to feel safe seeing. Want their body to feel safe. I know it's not always possible. And so. And then sometimes I think that I feel like in order to do that, it has to be big as opposed to small. And I think like, but how do you help people? How do you help a lot of people? Unless it's big.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:24]:
And then I'm like, but then if it gets too big, then you can't. You're not even helping people the way that you could have helped them if you had figured out how to find the balance. And so I think about, you know, when you go into, you know, Notre Dame, while it's beautiful, you know, you're in a line that just moves and moves and moves. And it's not that you can't stop in there. You can, you can stop and sit down, but you're surrounded by people that are constantly moving. And so the energy is just moving. It's not still. And you know, when I think about that church and the chocolate shop, like they were just, you know, a refuge.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:16]:
They were cozy and quiet and, you know, and made from a different type of energy. And so I think, you know, really the, the learning is a reminder of what do I really want? And you know, I want. I want mostly to find ways to help people. And there is a part of me that wants to always walk the other path of what is the most unfamiliar or to tie pieces together. I think that often is what I do.

Walker Bird [00:28:06]:
Tell me more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:07]:
You know, Like, I think about. Like, I take a lot of classes. I go on a lot of different retreats, and I'm always taking in other modalities. And I think for me, in that desire to find and create places of refuge, mostly to create places of refuge, I want there to be healing there, too, not just escaping. I want people to find freedom. I want them to be empowered. I want them to find their way of, you know, being the best self that they want to be. And so for me, what I'm thinking about right now is how how I make all those pieces fit together so that those things can happen.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:05]:
And I think about it, you know, whether it's in retreat, you know, like, let's say we're planning a retreat, and, you know, we pick a theme, and, you know, we're working on, like, processes. You know, for me, there is this. Like, this is connected to this. It's connected to this. And this is gonna bring out that, and this is gonna touch that, and this is gonna create comfort here. This is gonna be a challenge here. And then we need to do this in regards to food, because that's gonna help support the work that we just did around that. And you know what I mean, like, there's.

Walker Bird [00:29:39]:
We put a lot of thought and planning into it, for sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:42]:
And so for me, it's like, the way my brain works is to, like, piece all of those different things together, and. But ultimately, it's refuge and healing as opposed to just putting on a show, you know, and the reality is the podcast isn't different than that. Right? Like, from the very beginning, so much of the feedback and guidance we got was for it to be a show, not to just be what we're doing, which is just having these conversations. And then people say, but you need to do this right? And then you're like, oh, I'm not doing it right. You know, and then I feel my energy go that way, and then I have to, like, bring it back. Does that make sense? And so that contrast of the. Whatever it was, the basilica and the little church, you know, for me is that, you know, Notre Dame in the little church, you know, Notre Dame in the chocolate shop, Right. They are wonderfully created, beautifully held spaces that are holding a very different space than the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:12]:
And it's not taking away from them and their stories. It's just what speaks to me in my experience. And the contrast always teaches me something. And I pay attention to what I pay attention to, right? Like, what. Where does my body say go? So let's go. I mean, I didn't know when we walked into that little church that I was gonna be like, and, can we just stay here for a while?

Walker Bird [00:31:49]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:51]:
But something in my body said, go do that.

Walker Bird [00:31:55]:
Well, the second he mentioned it, you're like, yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:57]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:58]:
You just knew.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:59]:
Yeah. Sorry. I didn't ask anybody.

Walker Bird [00:32:02]:
No, I was fine. I was ambivalent. I really didn't want to stand in line for an hour to get into that other church. But in any event, it was a lovely experience. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:15]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:32:17]:
So we've touched on the first city.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:19]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:32:21]:
This was 12 days, so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:23]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:32:23]:
What was your next. What would be the next experience that you had on the trip where you either pushed one of your edges or found something just unexpected that made an impact on you?

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:45]:
Sure, sure. I think figuring out the airport thing was good. Getting.

Walker Bird [00:32:52]:
Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:53]:
Yeah. Getting through an airport that. That, you know, was. Is the airport we were in. I don't know how to pronounce it, but it was definitely less English. Familiar.

Walker Bird [00:33:04]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:05]:
And so I thought we did, you know, a good job. We're a good team, you know, figuring out, like, everybod engaged in trying to help us get where we want to go. So it's really nice. And then I would say taking the train to Milan, that was something we were all very unsure about because we don't take trains anyway. Right. Like, that is unfamiliar to us. Right. But again, we figured that out and made it, and it went really well.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:38]:
I think the next challenge for me was when we got the rental car in Milan.

Walker Bird [00:33:44]:
Tell us more. We've had experience with rental cars before. Spain. But anyway, this is Italy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:52]:
This is Italy. This is Milan. Yeah. Where you went to in the train station to check out your car and where you went to pick up your car were, I don't know, like, five or six blocks away from each other.

Walker Bird [00:34:07]:
Oh, more than that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:08]:
Was it?

Walker Bird [00:34:09]:
Oh, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:10]:
Anyway, so they didn't really tell us where to go or what to do other than they gave us, like, here's a QR code. And then, of course, I scanned it, and then I couldn't find it, and then it wasn't in my Google Maps where I had pulled it up. Anyway. And then we got there. The guy hands me the keys, and then we're in a parking garage, and I don't know how to get out, which is what happened in Spain.

Walker Bird [00:34:35]:
It is.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:36]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:34:37]:
But it wasn't for the same reason.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:38]:
It was not for the same reason. Right. And so, um. So I pull in and I. And nothing's working. I'm trying all the things. There's, like, a little key fob on the key ring, and I'm holding it up. Nothing's happening.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:49]:
We can't get out. I back out. We go around again.

Walker Bird [00:34:53]:
People had to back up again, I think, to let you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:55]:
Yeah, it was the second time. The second. The first time, they didn't have to. The second time, they did. And then the third time, we pulled up to the exit, I think you got out of the car, found somebody, and they said, push the phone button at the bottom. And so we did that, and someone was like. Said something, and we were basically like, we're trying to get out. And then the gate raised.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:21]:
And then. So for me, I was. That was a challenge, because I was like.

Walker Bird [00:35:29]:
What was most challenging about it for you? How does your body react in a situation like that?

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:34]:
Sure. So for me, because I want to be helpful to people, and I want people to succeed, there is a frustration that comes up that this person was not helpful, and they could have been the person that gave me the keys. Right. The person that gave me the keys could have been helpful. And he didn't say anything other than, here you go. And so I assumed that I would just pull up and it would open. And that assumption was incorrect. And so really, it's the frustration of that person could have been helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:10]:
Helpful, and for whatever reason, chose not to be. And I don't know why, you know, weren't paying attention, not present, whatever. And that. And then also, like, definitely, I'm gonna do something wrong about it and get in trouble. Oh, probably to some degree. It's not huge, but some degree. And then we did get out, and then driving there was, you know, an adventure, but I think we did really well. I think driving in Milan was hard, particularly when we came back at the end of our trip.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:01]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:37:01]:
That was another. It's similar to getting out of the garage, just amplified. Yeah, sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:06]:
Just not.

Walker Bird [00:37:06]:
There's zero place to park.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:07]:
Zero, zero.

Walker Bird [00:37:09]:
This whole medieval downtown area. And no, no, you rented walking traffic in the middle of it. Then there's restaurants and people sitting in the street and just like, oh, my God, am I on a street or not?

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:19]:
And you are. And we couldn't. But it took us. I don't know how long it took us even to get dropped off at our hotel, because there was no place at the hotel, because it's in the middle of that area downtown. Or I don't know if it's there downtown, but where we were like, it's. You pull up and everybody bails, and then you go park somewhere else. Right.

Walker Bird [00:37:40]:
They don't have hotel parking lots.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:42]:
Right. There's no parking. Right. And so we couldn't even, like. There wasn't even, like, a place for us to pull over. Right. In order for everybody to get out of the car. So it was just, you know, it's like everything about it's new, you know, just unfamiliar.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:59]:
There's a way of, you know, living there that is unfamiliar. And so trying to observe other people and learn, you know, in the process, you know, in the midst of it, is difficult.

Walker Bird [00:38:14]:
Can I ask you something?

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:15]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:38:16]:
In the middle of that, relationally with me, if you're struggling, like at the gate, for example, and then same thing in Spain, you know, we didn't realize you had to pay for your part. You didn't pay at the gate. You had to pay at a kiosk and then you had your ticket.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:31]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:38:31]:
But you get to the gate and there's a place for a credit card.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:34]:
Right. Right.

Walker Bird [00:38:34]:
Well, that doesn't do anything. Right. And so then there was this line of 20 people. It was a disaster. Right. I'm out of the car saying, back up and what do we do? And nobody's helping because they're like, you don't think. You can't speak our language or didn't want to. I don't know.

Walker Bird [00:38:51]:
We couldn't speak theirs. That was on us. But in any event, similar. And I had the same feelings as the passenger at the gate in Spain that I had at the gate in Milan and that I had trying to find a space in medieval, downtown Milan, that I was helpless to help. Help you. But there's also an underlying thing for me about how you're reacting to me, and I'm just wondering, you know, relationally, does that even come across your mind in the midst of all that? No, no.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:28]:
Yeah, no, totally.

Walker Bird [00:39:30]:
Isn't that funny?

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:31]:
Yeah. I'm absolutely in just find a solution mode. Like, how do we get from.

Walker Bird [00:39:35]:
Nobody's at fault.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:36]:
Nobody's at fault. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That doesn't even occur to me because.

Walker Bird [00:39:40]:
I start to panic because I'm not solving it for you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:43]:
Oh, no.

Walker Bird [00:39:44]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:44]:
No, I don't have an expectation of that. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:39:47]:
It's. That's what I carry from prior relationship.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:39:51]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:52]:
Yeah. No, I just, you know, if people.

Walker Bird [00:39:54]:
Because I feel like you're getting mad at me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:55]:
Oh, no, no. Just helpless for me because I don't know. And nobody else knows. You Know, we're just trying our best, all treading water.

Walker Bird [00:40:05]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:06]:
Yeah. So, no, I don't get upset with you. And you know, for me, it's just afterwards, like once we got out of the parking garage and you know, everybody and we're on the way. Right. The kids were teasing me about something. Do you remember what it was?

Walker Bird [00:40:22]:
No, I don't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:25]:
They were being silly because I don't. Because I don't mind, you know, the teasing. But I remember we had gotten on the highway and they were doing something in an exaggerated way so that I would start laughing. I don't remember.

Walker Bird [00:40:40]:
I don't remember.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:41]:
Yeah. So it was just an energy release and that was fine. Right, Right. Yeah. So I think, oh, and then. Oh, this was funny about the car. Then we were somewhere. I don't remember.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:55]:
I think in like, northeastern Italy. Oh, like at Lake Garda. Yeah, yeah. And we had gone to dinner. And Luke gets out of the car and a part of the car falls off.

Walker Bird [00:41:07]:
He slams the door. Yeah, Just the slider, the sliding.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:10]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:41:11]:
And he's strong, but it wasn't like crazy rock, the car slam. Anyway, what happened?

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:15]:
Any a part of the car fell off and then, fortunately, Cameron is a car guy, right. So he picks it up and he's like, these clips are broken and they put this back on there wrong. And of course we're like, well, we don't want to take it back to the car rental place with the part hanging off because I can't imagine what they' charge us for that. So part of our trip became finding what it was that Cameron needed to properly repair the car. Not to fake it until you make it, but he was going to repair it to make sure it stayed on.

Walker Bird [00:41:51]:
And I mean, this was. It was a big trim piece off the side of a Mini, you know, minivan was sliding door. So it was four feet long.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:58]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:41:59]:
About that thick.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:00]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:42:01]:
So we're carrying this thing around, riding from Lake Gardo all the way up to.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:05]:
Yeah. Milan. Or to the Dolomites and Milan. Yeah. Anyway, it was funny, but again, that, I mean, everybody, I think, does a really nice job staying in the adventure piece.

Walker Bird [00:42:18]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:20]:
And then Lake Garda was lovely. Beautiful. You know, on the resort we stayed at, which was beautiful. It was funny. We were the Americans there, and so that was an unusual experience. It was very clear.

Walker Bird [00:42:35]:
Well, that's what they called because we're like two feet taller than everybody else and much wider.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:43]:
Anyway, it was funny. We were just like, oh, okay, yes, we are the Americans. Yeah, so. But it was.

Walker Bird [00:42:51]:
They were kind, though.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:52]:
Yeah, it was great. The place was lovely that we stayed at and the food was, you know, lovely and we had some nice restaurants.

Walker Bird [00:42:59]:
Oh, that buffet was amazing, wasn't it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:01]:
Oh, for breakfast. Oh, the best I've ever had.

Walker Bird [00:43:04]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:04]:
I mean, it was amazing. And then we drove to the Dolomites and that was my favorite place.

Walker Bird [00:43:11]:
Well, tell us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:12]:
Yeah, you know. Well, the energy of it, you know, was lovely.

Walker Bird [00:43:18]:
So give some background on Dolomites so people know where we're talking about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:21]:
Well, it's northeastern Italy and it is close to Germany, Switzerland, Austria.

Walker Bird [00:43:31]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:32]:
Yeah. And so it was just stunning. I mean, when we got there and found the keys to our place and went to our place and we're walking around and it was a beautiful home. The view was lovely and it was, you know, basically it was a steep walk into town for sure. So. But it was. It was really beautiful and it was just nice, peaceful. The cable cars would take you up to like mountain meadows where then you could go hiking through more mountain meadows.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:14]:
And you know, they're. The way of life is just so centered around other things and so much of it's nature focused and, you know, people going out for, you know, a day hike and walking five miles through mountain meadows to eat at a mountain hut. And so both days we were out hiking, we ate at mountain huts that were miles in and. And you could drive there. It's just. That's not the point. The point is to walk there and to have an amazing meal and to walk back.

Walker Bird [00:44:54]:
And the meals at the mountain huts were amazing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:56]:
They were amazing. They were amazing. And it was beautiful. And trails, but not over developed. Just really nice. And we found out that there are flowers you cannot pick. Even though they're all over everywhere, you cannot pick them because they are endangered.

Walker Bird [00:45:24]:
Or just protected by their national laws.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:27]:
Yeah, but just the running water, you know, the different, you know, little rivers or creeks, whatever you would call them, you know, just experiencing the different ways people live. You know, like our guide, she's from that area. She's been there her whole life. She speaks Italian, German and I think it's called Luden, which is like a language that was developed. I can't remember if she said it was developed before they were allowed to speak German in Italy.

Walker Bird [00:46:01]:
I think it's a mix of Latin and something else.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:03]:
Is it okay? And so she said, so there were people, I guess that came down during one of the wars from Austria into northeastern Italy. And so there's actually like all the menus were in German and Italian. Right. And so that was surprising.

Walker Bird [00:46:21]:
That was surprising all of us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:22]:
Yeah, yeah. And so. And yeah, in the. What would you call it, like, a lot of German restaurants and German food in that part of Italy.

Walker Bird [00:46:34]:
Yeah. And the architecture, too, looked. I would call it, Bavarian style. You know, what you would expect in the German city.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:41]:
Yeah. In the. In the little town that we stayed in, was it Ortizi?

Walker Bird [00:46:44]:
Ortizi.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:45]:
Ortizi.

Walker Bird [00:46:45]:
Ortizi. I guess.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:46]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:46:47]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:47]:
And so. Because that may not be all the little mountain towns up there, but that was the one. Yeah, that was the one that we were staying in. And just, you know, everything about the trip was an adventure because it was nothing really that any of us had done to that degree. And. And it was lovely and challenging and as it is when you travel anyway, time zone difference, thinking, you know, what you're ordering, but you don't know. Like, it was so interesting. The.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:22]:
Oh, what is that dish that the kids kept ordering and it tasted like Kraft Macaroni and cheese. Oh, it was carbonara. Right. And so, like, we have. We have a version.

Walker Bird [00:47:34]:
I was so disappointed.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:35]:
Yeah. And so I don't know if. If it's always been that way or if that changed over some period of time, but everybody was like, no more carbonara. Because whatever, however they make it over there is. Was not what we expected it to be. Yeah. Not what we expected it to be, but we had some really excellent meals there. The mountain hut that first day was amazing.

Walker Bird [00:48:03]:
I had that German soup, stew, whatever. Gosh, it was so good. I wish I could remember the name, but it was a funny name because I kept saying it, remember?

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:12]:
Yeah, it was lovely. And for me, any. And, oh, this was interesting. So thinking about the creativity piece, anytime I step away, I absolutely instantly get more creative. And I just think that's like a physiological thing that happens when you're out of your environment and your brain is working in a different way because it doesn't know what's coming, you know, and so I just think it gets to operate differently. And so for me, when I'm in that space, there is just more creativity that comes naturally. And I think every single place we went, Luke was like taking mental and maybe even literal notes about different types of architecture or whatever. First, like, I'm going to say Minecraft, but that might not be true.

Walker Bird [00:49:02]:
Oh, no, I'm guessing that's right. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:05]:
You know, that he was creating worlds because he has in his mind, because his perspective of what the world is grew on that trip. Yeah, right. Because we see what we see and we know what we know. And the opportunity to see things differently, experience things differently, you know, to hear people's stories of their lives, you know, like our. Our guide, you know, and she had had a baby in February, and she had not spoken English, I think, since January, and just her. And I thought she did a great job, you know, all of us being able to communicate, but that she really hadn't left her house much in months. And so how grateful she was that we had hired her for the hikes because she was going to get to be out in the mountains for two.

Walker Bird [00:50:03]:
Days, her first break from baby.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:07]:
And so that was surprising. Like, wow. I can't even imagine, you know, really not having had that opportunity. But. But, you know, we just don't all live the same way, and we can get really insular, I think, about how people live when we really don't know how people live. So. Yeah. So, so much adventure.

Walker Bird [00:50:29]:
What was the most striking human observation you made or most interesting person that you observed while we were there?

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:41]:
I loved our guide at the Vatican.

Walker Bird [00:50:44]:
Ah, I loved him, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:46]:
Yeah. I think.

Walker Bird [00:50:47]:
What was his name?

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:49]:
Give me a second. Was it Carlos? Yes, it was. Okay. He was fantastic. He was. And we'll put his contact information. Yeah. In the show notes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:03]:
He was fantastic.

Walker Bird [00:51:05]:
So tell us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:05]:
I think he could have. I wish, you know, like. Because you don't know ahead of time. Right. But if we ever went back to Rome, like, he would be the guide. I would have a hire for us for the entire trip. Right. Because he is.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:21]:
He's lovely.

Walker Bird [00:51:22]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:22]:
Yeah. He is passionate. He loves teaching. He is resilient. He. It's. He. He really wants you to experience what you want to experience.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:39]:
And whereas some of our guides, that was not their goal. Their guide was to. Their goal was to get from this end of the guide to that end of the guide. Right. And his wasn't that, you know, he really was, you know, wanting to teach us and inspire us and. And you could just feel that. And I love that, you know, that passion. And that's just his way, you know, of touching people is by doing it that way and really being, you know, very encouraging about all the things that we wanted to do and just makes you even more excited about what's coming up because he.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:21]:
Because of his energy. And so for me, it would have been. That would have been the most. I don't know, the person that we encountered that I enjoyed the most. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:37]:
What's the quote in your lobby?

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:40]:
Compassion is the complete acceptance of another's humanness without knowing their story.

Walker Bird [00:52:44]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:46]:
Oh, the one in the lobby. Sorry. Shoot. I'm not. I'm not. That one. I know because I wrote that one. The one in the lobby.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:56]:
I didn't write. What the world needs is for you to go out and find what you're most passionate about. That is not the quote. That is a summary of the quote.

Walker Bird [00:53:10]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:10]:
Do you know the quote?

Walker Bird [00:53:11]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:12]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:53:12]:
That wasn't a test. I didn't want to mess it up. But it doesn't matter. The point being, that was Carlos.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:19]:
Right?

Walker Bird [00:53:20]:
I mean, so, so passionate and so well educated on what was going to be on his tour.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:28]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:53:28]:
It mattered.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:29]:
It mattered.

Walker Bird [00:53:30]:
But he loved it. And he loved people, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:33]:
Yes. Yes.

Walker Bird [00:53:34]:
And so when he would tell you the story about the different art on the. The opposite sides of the. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, he would, you know, step in, and you could just feel the energy because he loved it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:47]:
He did.

Walker Bird [00:53:48]:
And he was so excited. Then he'd smile at the end of his. You know. He was. That's great. I'm glad that you brought that to mind.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:55]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:56]:
Nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:57]:
Yeah. And we'll put that quote in the show notes, too, the one that's in the lobby. Because to me, it's. Why it's in the lobby. It is, to me, a reminder, you know, what the world needs is for us to love what we're doing in whatever way. It doesn't have to be our occupation. I don't think touring is his main occupation, but it is something that he.

Walker Bird [00:54:17]:
Loves, I would guess. He's a university professor.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:19]:
Yeah, Something like that.

Walker Bird [00:54:22]:
Lucky us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:22]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:23]:
Yeah. But he. But it wasn't. We were equals. There was no challenge or, you know, he didn't have anything to prove. He was just sharing his love for the whole thing. It was great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:39]:
Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And I loved it how, like, we'd go into a particular place in the Vatican, and he'd be like, let's go this way, because this is, like, the secret way. And he'd go over and he'd, like, say something, and then they'd let us go, you know, or down these stairs or around this corner or, you know, whenever he wanted to show you something that was, like, off the. A little bit off the main tour, you know, he'd be like, come over here, you know, and he'd like, you know, put us, all seven of us over here. And then he'd tell us about this little thing that maybe other people aren't Paying attention to it too, but he just loves it and what it means and. No, it was just so nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:19]:
It was so nice. How about you?

Walker Bird [00:55:21]:
Oh, I'm just feeling the love over that. I mean, just somebody that is doing something that they love, you know, so immersed in it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:31]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:32]:
You know, he was in flow.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:33]:
He was.

Walker Bird [00:55:34]:
And when we're there, it's just like you can turn on an entire room.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:40]:
Formal. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:42]:
So, yeah, I have to agree. Yeah, he was lovely then. There's so many amazing experiences. But I enjoyed visiting with our. The guide in the Dolomite. She was fascinating. You know, different views on life. You know, just decided she was going to do that to make her living.

Walker Bird [00:56:08]:
And she's trying to get started with her website and a podcast and those sorts of things. So we shared information and we will have to put her information down in the. In the notes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:18]:
In the notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking too, one of the things I did enjoy because it was so crowded, even though it was May when we were there and before the Jubilee and all that, it was just because the Pope, the new Pope, had been named. It's kind of like that season started early and so it was so crowded, like at one point, Mimi could not see anything. And so Luke picked her up and put her on his shoulders.

Walker Bird [00:56:51]:
Sure, the people behind them were thrilled, but Mimi's all of five foot one maybe.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:58]:
Anyway, she could see great up there anyway. But it was. What was so sweet is how, you know, they all went back, like at one o' clock in the morning, you know, on scooters.

Walker Bird [00:57:09]:
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. The kids.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:10]:
The kids. Yeah. To see all of the sights without all the crowds in Rome. And I was just, you know, I mean, part of. A little bit nervous, but then also really proud of them for being so adventurous, that they were like, we want to see them without all the people around. And so, you know, that they did that and did it together and had.

Walker Bird [00:57:31]:
A great time and it'll be lifetime memories. And I'm. It was nice that they went together.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:38]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:38]:
You know. Yeah. I don't know that I would have been that brave at all.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:43]:
Yeah, they're pretty brave.

Walker Bird [00:57:45]:
I was beat because they're like, oh, we're stay up all night. You want to stay up all night while. No. You want a grumpy grandpa following you around? No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:59]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:02]:
Anyway, it was sleep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:03]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:05]:
I guess that just being able to share venture with family too, and see them expand horizons and grow. And I got a lot of satisfaction. I Mean, this was your party. You took care of all the kids. But it's still. I got to be vicariously, you know, a participant in watching them grow through this. And I think it could change trajectories of lives by expanding horizons. Big part of adventure, because it just opens.

Walker Bird [00:58:37]:
Even if they don't remember specifically, it will open pathways in their minds to either try new things or have a broader world perspective. All that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:47]:
So. What a gift.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:48]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:48]:
Good job, mom.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:49]:
Thanks, babe. Yeah. It was really nice to hear them talking about the experience.

Walker Bird [00:58:54]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:55]:
And, you know, being able to verbalize that there is. There was an energy there about living that is different and then feeling that and being able to talk about it was really lovely.

Walker Bird [00:59:14]:
Yeah. And green.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:16]:
Yeah. We need the contrast. We don't. We don't know that we do, but having the contrast really teaches. Well, it's an opportunity for us to learn about the world, what we enjoy, what we don't enjoy. I just think if we don't step out, how do we really learn what we like or not? But it was an amazing experience.

Walker Bird [00:59:45]:
It was. Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:46]:
Yeah. Anything else before we wrap up?

Walker Bird [00:59:50]:
I just wondered if you had one last piece of advice for people on adventure and creativity related to travel or whatever else.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:08]:
What comes to mind is, can we allow an experience to be different then We've planned it out. And there were parts on this trip that were hard when they didn't go a certain way. You know, I wanted people to have the full experience and they didn't. They didn't always get that because of whatever happened. Yeah. Oh, we missed a river cruise. That was the thing. And I don't remember what happened, but.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:51]:
And then the tour. And so there were certain things that I really, you know, wanted people to have the experience of that just didn't happen. And for me, I was very aware of my, you know, need to release the energy of that. Like, I. They are not going to be disappointed. Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:01:18]:
It's funny, the burdens that we carry that we make up all on our own.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:23]:
Right.

Walker Bird [01:01:24]:
Until we decide to let it go.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:25]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:01:27]:
Nice.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:28]:
Yeah. Thanks, babe.

Walker Bird [01:01:30]:
Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:33]:
Thanks for going. Thanks for being a part of the.

Walker Bird [01:01:37]:
Adventure, explaining the whole thing. It was awesome sauce.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:40]:
Yeah, it was. I love you.

Walker Bird [01:01:41]:
I love you, too.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:44]:
Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth, and we strive to be more compassionate every day.