When Words Take Your Power

Walker Bird [00:00:01]:
Have you ever felt confused or overwhelmed in relationships? Theresa and I have come up with a free mini course that we think will really help you out with a lot of the common relationship experiences so that you can improve your communication skills with all of the people in your life and really make a change for the better.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:18]:
Yeah, we really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn healthy relationship skills so that we can get through life having a good, healthy relationship experience. So click the link, put your email in, you'll get the PDF, spend a few hours working on it, and please let us know what your experience is. We know it will benefit you in some way. Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:00:41]:
Thank you. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:44]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:00:45]:
I thought that one was pretty good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:46]:
Okay, sounds good. Okay, check, check.

Walker Bird [00:00:53]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path. You know, looking at you like, okay, now she's going to judge me. You know, the kid in me is evaluating. She's going to tell me I said it wrong, and when I come up with a solution, she's going to say, well, you know, nice try. How my little boy would take a nice try, Billy. But, you know, you didn't get it right either, you know, so all that stuff is going on inside of me and I'm guessing a lot of people when we don't even know it.

Walker Bird [00:01:48]:
Right. I know if we were to go back and look over this whole thing, you will see it plain as day as I'm going through those emotions and in and out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:00]:
Yeah, yeah. And I want to wrap up by saying we're going to play this at the beginning and we'll play it again at the end. This part right now, going back two minutes, and then we're going to play it through. This was a comment that someone made to you earlier today about you being a thrill seeker.

Walker Bird [00:02:22]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:22]:
Because of some choices that you have made and want to make for the way you live your life.

Walker Bird [00:02:29]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:29]:
And the reaction that you had was something like what? I don't remember exactly.

Walker Bird [00:02:38]:
I'm going to fucking live before I'm gone.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:43]:
I know the rules, parents.

Walker Bird [00:02:44]:
Yeah. I got grouchy. Don't be stealing my little boy's dreams. He gets angry, you know, and I bet there's shame for having cursed. But I, you know, it was totally reactive. I so I'm thinking through. Well, what could I have said that still maintain my. That didn't let him do that, Take my power, you know, or my hope.

Walker Bird [00:03:15]:
So I could have just said, yeah. There are so many exciting things to do. Life is such an adventure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:35]:
Mm.

Walker Bird [00:03:35]:
Don't you think?

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:36]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:03:39]:
Probably not the don't you think sassy part, but yes, there are so many exciting things to do. I can't wait to try them all.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:46]:
Yeah. What's the difference?

Walker Bird [00:03:49]:
That's more positive and reaffirming to me than I wanna fucking live before I'm gone. More positive for the room too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:07]:
Sure. Now what I was thinking, you know, it's not threatening if it's your adult plan.

Walker Bird [00:04:32]:
What's not threatening your plan?

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:36]:
His comment isn't threatening if it's your adult plan. If it's your little boy dream, it's threatened. But if it's your adult plan, which is what it is.

Walker Bird [00:04:47]:
Well, my little boy came out apparently.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:49]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:04:50]:
Cause I'm hot on the trail in therapy with it. You know that last thing I told you about the airplane story, throwing it out of the truck and it was like, don't steal my hope.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:00]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:05:00]:
You're not going to take that. And so. Yeah, I mean it's right there emotionally, so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:05]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:05:06]:
But I understand what you're saying.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:08]:
Yeah. You're doing this as intentionally and as thoughtfully as is possible. It's risky. You, you know that. That's all. It just is. And it's not something that most people would be willing to do skydive, any of it. Not like we have skydiving opportunities everywhere.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:40]:
You know, the most people, I mean, we probably have a lot more of those skydiving places you can go in the blow up thing, but there still aren't many of those. Right. Like that level of letting go was very difficult. So for me it's. I don't think about it as a little boy dream. Think about it as your plan.

Walker Bird [00:06:11]:
Yeah, well, it's not something I thought about doing as a little boy, but that somebody, you know, I mean if you, if you step back and you look at the dynamics of the room. I am in an office where I am reliant on people who are managing things for me. Right. And so they are then in a semi authority position is how. I'm just analyzing it as I go. But I think that is the dynamic setup for the comment that came, you know, so we're just having small talk before we got down to business and you know, so what are you up to? And Just sharing my dreams, you know, exciting things. Because he knew I'd been on the hike last year, 60 miles in six days. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:07:09]:
And I didn't even share that. I want to do it into the northern lights anyway.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:07:19]:
No, I. I think that the. Obviously, I'm working through authority figure stuff. I'm working through authority figures, taking my hope. Or trying to. And the adult resolution that you're not doing that. You know, that's not happening now. Was the adult speaking when I said, I'm gonna fucking live before I die?

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:44]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:07:45]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:45]:
No. Right. Right.

Walker Bird [00:07:48]:
You know, but I don't. I don't want you judging me or fixing me in this process. I just. It's my process.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:08]:
Right. No, I'm just saying I don't. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:11]:
I mean, I could have done a lot worse things than I did, for sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:14]:
Babe, I'm not judging you, nor do I care that you said what you said.

Walker Bird [00:08:18]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:19]:
What I know you said was. Exactly. I don't remember, but don't squish my little boy dreams. And I don't think about it as a little boy. Right. I don't think about it that way. So it was just surprising to me when you said it that way.

Walker Bird [00:08:40]:
I didn't say little boy. You did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:42]:
No, you did.

Walker Bird [00:08:43]:
I did not say my little boy dreams.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:45]:
Yes, you did. You did.

Walker Bird [00:08:48]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:51]:
That's why it struck me.

Walker Bird [00:08:53]:
The little boy. That is not a little boy dream. Because I thought about flying from the time I was. I can remember, but not skydiving. That came later. But when I was working with my therapist, it was the little boy from the crib, even. And then at different instances, with people taking his hope.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:19]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:09:19]:
You know, he may not have had a lot of other things, so you can't take that one, or there's going to be massive resistance once you try. So anyway, I. If I said it that way, then I said it that way, but it must have been a Freudian slip, as they say. I think I was trying to express that my little boy was the one responding versus an adult who could have either just smiled, brushed it off, you know, or said something productive.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:02]:
I don't think she did anything wrong. That's his story.

Walker Bird [00:10:10]:
Yeah. He has two kids under five.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:15]:
Very different place in life.

Walker Bird [00:10:16]:
Well, one has just turned one, and that's a very different place in life. So that was probably a wishing piece on his. And then, you know, a judgment piece. Reckless. This guy's reckless. Yeah, maybe so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:36]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:10:37]:
I'm 57.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:39]:
Mm.

Walker Bird [00:10:41]:
My mom died at 54.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:45]:
Yeah. And.

Walker Bird [00:10:51]:
And I am going to try so many things before I'm too old to care or my body gives out for doing those things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:03]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:11:04]:
Like the big hikes. I mean, that's why I'm working so hard to try to fix the hip.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:10]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:11:11]:
So. Yeah. Anyway.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:15]:
Yeah. I just wanted you to hear, babe, that I don't think any of the things that you want to do are reckless. I think they're just things you want to do, and I think it's great that you want to do them.

Walker Bird [00:11:40]:
Yeah. I think reckless is in the eye of the beholder, and it's also a term, along with thrill seeker, that people use labels that they use to, I don't know, shame you or express their jealousy or whatever it is, their judgment. Because, you know, if I was a parent of two young children going skydiving, probably not the best thing to do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:12]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:12:12]:
I was taking flying lessons when Libby was in high school, and I had a rough landing, you know, and then kind of, they were rushing me when I soloed. They were rushing me to land when a C130 was coming in behind me. And, you know, and I had no idea where it was. But they didn't want to waste fuel for the C130. Right. So they're telling this guy who's on his solo flight, expedite. Expedite.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:34]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:12:35]:
What the hell does that mean? I'm trying to land an airplane.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:37]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:12:38]:
So in any event, that just reminded me, you know, in that moment. But that's been. Shoot, a decade ago, maybe a little bit more, where I just decided that the downside of a mistake is pretty far down, usually fatal.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:53]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:12:55]:
And I needed to make sure I got my daughter through college. Guess what? She's all grown up, living on her own for the most part with a great guy, and she's competent and lovely. I can go do whatever I want. And if somebody else wants to label it, they can. So I'll work on the adulting piece of. Of not giving up my power by getting reactive. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:27]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:13:29]:
So, yeah, I'm being more positive. I mean. I mean, I don't know that not responding is. Is always necessary. I mean, we. As long as we're choosing, you know, if I paused and decided, you know what?

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:45]:
Mm.

Walker Bird [00:13:47]:
I'm just going to be direct now. I could be direct in lots of ways without cursing, but it would have been intentional instead of reactive.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:57]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:13:57]:
And direct could also be, you know, I don't know. I'll think through how that would be appropriately said without getting snarky because it leans over into snarky for me because I have to get. Sometimes I have to get to that spot so I can take on people like that. It's not, you know, I just. That's probably not my nature. I've learned it, so. But anyway, getting way deep on a non scheduled topic, that's okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:29]:
It's still important topic.

Walker Bird [00:14:31]:
It is. So what do you do? Let's just dive into it then. What do you do when somebody is saying something that at least a part of them is trying to take from you? When they say something like, oh, you're a thrill seeker? Yeah, that's my little voice still reacting. But it's true. That's how I felt. It's like, oh, so you're thinking.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:01]:
Is that what it looked like?

Walker Bird [00:15:03]:
What I look like? No, what he looked like? I don't know. I think I looked down when he started when he said it. I think I was looking at the other person and so I was in between. So I didn't see his eyes, but I think his head went down like that when he said it. It was like, so you're a thrill seeker. And it did have a tone to it. Well, who knows? Intentional or not. I think it was intentional because those are the words he chose.

Walker Bird [00:15:28]:
Now, was his tone intentional? I don't know. But it certainly conveyed. I'm taking from you, judging you. So what do you do? Choices, ignore it. Whatever you say doesn't matter to me, or respond as I did, reactively. Reactively could be a lot different. Like f you, I'm out of here. Send my money to another place.

Walker Bird [00:16:01]:
Didn't come here to be insulted or standing your ground while being an adult. And that's really the question that I'm struggling with as I keep dancing around it, which is what is an adult way to, you know, say to convey the message giant keeping my power, you know, and that's not how we will interact.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:34]:
Yeah. Are you asking for a suggestion?

Walker Bird [00:16:38]:
Not yet.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:38]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:16:39]:
I know you're dying to tell me. I don't know. You know what I don't want to do is I give you a thought and you're like, oh, God, no, I wouldn't do that. You wouldn't say it that way, but that's how I would feel it because we're in that space. Oh, it's okay. I'm vacillating between adult and child. You know, part of me is just like, what do we always. Is it always best to just take it? Right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:21]:
Is it. Is that what you're asking?

Walker Bird [00:17:23]:
No, I'm just making a statement. It's always best to just take it. And I don't think it always is. I think sometimes it's okay to stand up for ourselves when somebody does that. And the question is again, how? Let me give it a shot, and then you can tell me what you're thinking. I gave it one shot already, which was, yes, I can't wait to try out everything before I'm finished here on Earth. It's such an adventure without. Don't you think? Yes, you asshole.

Walker Bird [00:18:02]:
Or I think that one would have been. Okay, how about this? Different people have different ways of looking at life. This is mine.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:43]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:18:47]:
Okay, let's hear it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:49]:
I thought that was great, babe. Yeah. What I feel like is that often we don't feel like we have the time or the space to get that clear about how. How we really feel or what we really want or need. And so I think our. You know, but we feel like we need to do something or shut down, like you said. So I think your. I think your proposed suggestions.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:29]:
The first one, like, I want to do all the things before I'm not on the planet anymore. I think it's great. I think what you said just then about, you know, different people choose different ways to live and this is mine, is good, too. My only other suggestion, and this won't surprise you at all, is tell me more.

Walker Bird [00:19:57]:
I was gonna say get curious.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. And the reason that. The reason that I go to Tell me more is because you do not have to defend yourself. And so Tell me more is really putting it back on them to explain themselves, as opposed to you feeling the need to explain yourself because you don't need to. You don't owe him anything. Even if you have a professional relationship with him, you don't owe him a reason. So if you say tell me more, you know, then it's on him to be clear, and then for him to figure out maybe that is not something that he should have said or said that way or whatever.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:41]:
So that's what comes to mind for me, because I do not believe you need to defend yourself or your choice. Choices. Yeah. What does that feel like?

Walker Bird [00:20:57]:
Oh, I immediately was thinking, well, what's then the next. Because then the chess move. The chess game continues.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:03]:
Right? Oh. Or not.

Walker Bird [00:21:05]:
Or not. And maybe he just like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:08]:
Right, right. And it's deflated.

Walker Bird [00:21:10]:
I didn't know you were so sensitive. You know, I mean, that's something the person could say in response. Right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:19]:
I. I am guessing that he may not have a job had that. That come out of his mouth.

Walker Bird [00:21:26]:
I am paying them, after all. They're not paying me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:29]:
Right. I'm guessing that would not have come out of his mouth, but if it had, yeah, that would not have been great.

Walker Bird [00:21:35]:
Well, I'm thinking of different contexts, and that could be a response that a sibling, for example, might give you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:40]:
Oh, absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:21:41]:
I was thinking, you've always been so sensitive. Instead of answering your question, tell me more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:47]:
Yeah. And then just tell me more. Yeah. Not gonna engage with that. We can either continue having the conversation, you can tell me what made you curious, or we're done talking about it. Yeah. Siblings, friends. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:03]:
I had a colleague, you know, yesterday that I hadn't talked to in, gosh, I don't even know, seven years. Probably was wanting to ask me a business question and wanted to check in and get my understanding about something. And, you know, at the end of the conversation, they were saying something about, you know, what their, you know, plans are. And I thought they were telling me their plans because they were. Because they knew that those were the things that we were doing, you know, and so, you know, he made the, you know, the comment about, you know, how you used to do retreats. And I said, oh. I said, we're still doing retreats. So as a matter of fact, we're doing one in October in Oregon and one in November in Missouri.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:53]:
And he's like, oh, oh. And then he said, well, I was thinking about starting a podcast. And I was like, oh, it's so good. It's been really great for us and our relationship. And he's like, oh, you're doing a podcast? And so then I was like, well, how does this. How is my response impacting him as he's sharing things with me about what he's wanting to do, but I'm already doing them. And so I was aware of that. I mean, it was just true.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:23]:
I mean, it was just part of the conversation, but I was just aware that I was like, hope I'm not taking from him by even just responding with, you know, what was true. Right. Yeah. For him. So messy.

Walker Bird [00:23:41]:
It is. And I mean, we can second guess our conversations all the time, but the. That's a lot different than labeling.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:48]:
Oh, sure, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:23:49]:
With a judgy label.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:50]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:23:52]:
Like the. The other person was like that. You do so many exciting things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:56]:
Right, right. All excited, right.

Walker Bird [00:24:00]:
You know, empowering.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:01]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can be. We can be. Not very empowering to people. We can, as you said earlier in the conversation, it felt like something was. He was trying to take something from you. Yeah, right. And I think we often do that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:26]:
Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not intentionally. And I think the best we can do is to not give it to them. But that does require us to not defend ourselves. But I think the ways you did it, the ways you imagined saying it, I thought were good. You know, I just don't think we owe anybody our story.

Walker Bird [00:24:58]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:59]:
I mean, maybe the people closest to us. But.

Walker Bird [00:25:03]:
The thought that comes to mind, I mean, I hear you, and I think it has merit. I think also, I think the effect may be the same, but setting a boundary, you know, I don't know that if I'd gone into great detail of, well, you know, gosh, you know, so and so it's really safe and, you know, those sorts of things, that to me is more, you know, justifying versus different people have different views of how to live life. This is mine, is setting boundary with him for the future, maybe. I think saying tell me more is also because he immediately would have been like, I think. Or he would have been oblivious and dove right in. So who knows?

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:57]:
Do you think that it matters what you want the future to involve, to evolve into?

Walker Bird [00:26:06]:
Tell me more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:10]:
Yeah, I was just thinking about. I'm so sassy. You are. What I was thinking about was at what level do we value the relationship of the person that we're in conversation with? You know, what are we wanting from, you know, it. Are we expecting it to stay in this particular, you know, I don't know, energy, where they're really not necessarily a significant part of the relationship that's happening in the room. And so setting a boundary feels like that is enough. Or is there hope that over time there is relationship that grows? And so if the hope is that there's relationship that grows, then what response do you think you would give?

Walker Bird [00:27:19]:
What my immediate thought is, I don't care if that relationship grows because he's there to learn from the boss and the bosses who I deal with. I. How I said it in reality probably is not conducive to relationship growing. Nor was the way he said it. The other two ways, I think leave open that possibility. The curious way, depending on his response, could lead you down different paths. And I think what's critical about that to me is continuing to maintain my equilibrium if I decide to be curious and open that door. Because if he says something snarky in response, you know, to up the ante, as some people will, what are you doing next? And, you know, it's I would love to say I'm always present and able to maintain, but I'm not.

Walker Bird [00:28:29]:
I'm more prone to react, especially given what I do for a living. The trial lawyer responds. And we've talked through that in different instances, but. And I'm better at it. But it would have been difficult, especially where I was with everything, you know, the work I'm doing with my therapist. Plus, there it is. And I'm sure that was the universe saying, we're gonna give you a little. Just a little challenge today.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:56]:
What do you think? Something to work on my therapist with.

Walker Bird [00:29:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's worth a conversation for sure. But I. I honestly, babe, I don't want to discount the standing up for myself factor. And I know that that's justification or. What did you say? You don't have to explain yourself. Right.

Walker Bird [00:29:19]:
Or. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:20]:
You don't have to defend the choices.

Walker Bird [00:29:21]:
Defend yourself. Right. And so, I don't know, you know, maybe my little boy needs some defending.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:29]:
Maybe. So.

Walker Bird [00:29:30]:
Yeah. Now, you know, coming out with the hatchet wasn't the best plan. But it wasn't a plan. It was just a. Oh, gosh. So anyway, we've expended a lot of energy on some comment that I would guess his boss took note.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:00]:
Oh, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:00]:
Because the boss is pretty sensitive and attuned to clients.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:04]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:05]:
And if so, it would be nice if he was having a conversation similar to this one.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:15]:
Yeah, it may be.

Walker Bird [00:30:17]:
So maybe, maybe not. And if not, it could be my hard business. You know what I'm saying?

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:29]:
Oh.

Walker Bird [00:30:30]:
If you say judgy things towards your clients frequently, you're not going to have clients very long in the wrong context. In your business, you're not saying judgy things, but you are revealing truths at the right times, Right. Hopefully.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:47]:
Hopefully. That's the hope.

Walker Bird [00:30:48]:
Not always, but still. And so, you know, I mean, people walk out, she doesn't know what she's effin' and talking about, all mad, blah, blah, blah. And I've done that too with therapists and then realized, you know, actually she does. You know, I don't like it, but it's true. Or I really like it because I can see it, you know, but I was really mad at the time. So anyway, I don't know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:27]:
So how do we. Gosh, I mean, I. I mean, I just think it's so difficult because we can try all those things. And I do believe it is helpful for us to maintain our integrity because when we do react in situations where we have some level of regret about the way we did something. The amount of energy that we expend trying to work through it is a lot. I mean, if he had said it and you had said, you know, one of the things that you had come up with, it probably would have sloughed off you easier.

Walker Bird [00:32:19]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:22]:
So I think about that. You know, we've talked about that, the integrity piece. And it's just all we can do is keep practicing, be aware of it. Right. Keep trying to do it.

Walker Bird [00:32:35]:
So do you think I didn't have integrity?

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:38]:
I think you're feeling like you didn't, and that's why it's sticking to you. Even through the. What we've been recording, you have been giving yourself a hard time. So that's what I mean. Right. So the energy around it is still sticking to you is what I mean.

Walker Bird [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Integrity draws other things to mind, you know, like I did something wrong. And ultimately, I think. I mean, I don't want to be. I would feel more comfortable if the boss wasn't there when I used words like that. You know what I'm saying? I just. She wasn't a combatant, you know, and I wasn't saying it to her. But still, that's just.

Walker Bird [00:33:29]:
In a professional setting. I don't want to speak that way, but I don't know. I don't think it's a lack of integrity to, you know, if your warrior comes out every once in a while, it's okay. But obviously I'm struggling with it because I want to be intentional, you know, and if I had thought about it and chose to do it that way, then I would feel better about it as well, instead of it just being a. Because that's what it was, is you're slapping me, I'm gonna slap you back. And that's probably where I was when you and I first met. Much more. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:16]:
What are you thinking about?

Walker Bird [00:34:16]:
What are you thinking? I'm looking at your eyes and you're like, hmm.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:26]:
You mean verbally. I don't know what the word is. I mean, your profession. I mean, what, to me, your interaction with him is what is familiar in your profession. It is something that is very well practiced based off the things I've seen in my history, but also how you describe different interactions that attorneys have with each other.

Walker Bird [00:35:09]:
Yeah, I don't typically drop the F bomb, so that was an up the ante. But I. I would, and less so than before in the past, have said, without the F bomb, you know what? I'll do whatever I want, you know, or even more strongly without the curse word.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:36]:
Yeah. Thank you.

Walker Bird [00:35:38]:
Difference does it make to you what I do? Things like that. Not productive. I don't know. Anyway, I interrupted you. Sorry.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:53]:
I was just thinking about the integrity piece. Yeah, yeah. It's not integrity. I'm not thinking about it as integrity to others. I'm thinking about it as integrity to yourself.

Walker Bird [00:36:16]:
I'm looking up the definition of integrity, the quality of being honest and having consistent and uncompromising adherence to strong moral and ethical principles and values. In ethics, it's regarded as honesty and truthfulness to earnestness of one's actions. That's probably the definition that I'm like, well, I don't know that I lacked integrity in this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:42]:
But. To yourself, you did. That's what I'm saying.

Walker Bird [00:36:45]:
Well, to the person that I want to be, yes. Was it dishonest? No, it was completely honest. Was it harsh? Absolutely. Was it reactive? Yes. Was it intentional? No. Did it lack honesty or truthfulness? No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:12]:
To yourself? It did.

Walker Bird [00:37:14]:
It did. It lacked adherence to the person I want to be today.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:20]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:37:21]:
Which is kind, strong, able to set boundaries, not going along to get along and, I don't know, maintaining my power. So it meets some of those, but not all of them. All of them would be one of the alternatives we've just been discussing. And what would have been most interesting would be. Tell me more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:17]:
Yeah. Just to hear what he'd have to say.

Walker Bird [00:38:21]:
Yeah. What do you mean? And without being aggressive or defensive, tell me more. What do you mean? This interesting babe I watched, there was a. An old video of Tom Cruise. He was at some event outside. You know, they're in. In the street or whatever, was blocked off, and there were people, you know, like reporters and stuff. Probably a red carpet event, something like that.

Walker Bird [00:38:45]:
But in any event, he's walking by and the reporter calls him over. He said he's talking to the reporter, answering his questions, and the guy pulls out like a. It's not a squirt gun, but it's a squirty thing. And he squirts Tom Cruise in the face. Have you seen that one?

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:57]:
I don't think so.

Walker Bird [00:38:58]:
Yeah. Tom starts to laugh it off, and then, you know, he. He takes it. He's not aggressive, but he's forceful. He's like, you know, that was not very nice. Why would you do that? And the guy's like, oh, you know, yeah, no, no, I understand, but why would you do that? And the guy, blah, blah, starts turning away. No, no, wait just a second. And Tom, you know, he doesn't Grab him.

Walker Bird [00:39:21]:
But he touches him on the arm across the barricade. And of course, his publicist is coming over or whoever, his handler is coming over. You know, like, come on, let's move along. And Tom wasn't having any of it. And he maintained. But he maintained his adult. I think you can be emotional and earnest without losing your cool. Because he obviously didn't like it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:44]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:39:45]:
But. No, I'm serious. Why. Why would you do that? And then it went to. I can't remember. The guy made up some lame, blah, blah, blah, whatever, after Tom had asked him three or four times. And then just Tom said, you know, you're a jerk. That's a jerk thing to do.

Walker Bird [00:40:06]:
And then the clip was over. But I don't know about the jerk part, although I don't know that it's not extreme like some horrible curse word. It was a jerk thing to do. So I think it was accurate. So I don't know. Name calling probably starts to devolve pretty quickly, But I appreciated it because he could have just thrown a total hissy fit, could toss the F bomb. Anyway. There's different ways of being.

Walker Bird [00:40:44]:
And I think that was a good example of refusing to just slough it off and ignore it. And so he was standing up for himself. But I think he did it in a pretty good way. What do you think about that? I mean, you'll have to see it, but.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:02]:
Yeah. I mean, based off what you described. Sure. Why did you do that? It's a fair question to ask. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:41:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:12]:
I mean, but he was being curious. He was trying to understand.

Walker Bird [00:41:17]:
He was. In an adamant way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:20]:
Sure. As was fair.

Walker Bird [00:41:24]:
Agreed.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:24]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:41:26]:
Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. What. And it's a fascinating conversation. Just, how do we want to work Walk in the world? And I have said it repeatedly for the. How long have we been doing this? Two years now, almost.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:50]:
It was January of 24.

Walker Bird [00:41:52]:
Okay. I want to be intentional. I want to be able to pause and regardless of the men, make a choice. Okay. Even if the choice is gonna rain on you now, at least it was a choice versus it was just some emotional part of me that got triggered from the past or from whatever. You know what I'm saying? So that's what I want this to be about, is to continuing just to. Okay, what did I gain from this? Versus, you know, I lost a whole lot of energy. Just if I just done it different, you know, I wouldn't be spending this much energy.

Walker Bird [00:42:40]:
And, you know, all that to, you know, it was really another good reminder of, okay, people are going to challenge you in different ways that may be offensive. And this was another opportunity to take a breath and make a choice which direction. And also some good practicing. So thank you. On what productive avenues might look like. So thanks. Even though it was hard sometimes because I, you know, there's there.

Walker Bird [00:43:13]:
And when we're doing this and just so everybody understands and I'm sure they've experienced it, you, I will vacillate in and out of being an adult. And, you know, looking at you like, okay, now she's going to judge me. You know, the kid in me is evaluating. She's going to tell me I said it wrong. And when I come up with a solution, she's going to say, well, you know, nice try. How my little boy would take a nice try, Billy, but, you know, you didn't get it right either, you know, so all that stuff is going on inside of me and I'm guessing a lot of people when we don't even know it. Right. Yeah, I know.

Walker Bird [00:43:54]:
If we were to go back and look over this whole thing, you will see it plain as day as I'm going through those emotions and in and out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:02]:
Yeah, yeah. And I want to wrap up by saying, we're going to play this at the beginning and we'll play it again at the end. This part right now, going back two minutes, and then we're going to play it through. This was a comment that someone made to you earlier today about you being a thrill seeker.

Walker Bird [00:44:23]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:24]:
Because of some choice that you have made and want to make for the way you live your life.

Walker Bird [00:44:30]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:31]:
And the reaction that you had was something like what? I don't remember exactly.

Walker Bird [00:44:40]:
I'm going to fucking live before I'm gone.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:43]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:44:45]:
With that kind of a look, I think.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:47]:
Right. So you've been working. It's okay. So you've just been working through the emotion that was still stuck to that interact.

Walker Bird [00:44:57]:
Yeah. On different levels. Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:59]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:02]:
You know, the. Why would somebody say that? And also, gosh, you know, I could have done it so much better, more productively.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:12]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:45:13]:
So anyway, all that's everything we've been talking about. And, you know, but it's okay. I mean, it didn't. It's not like I did something that's going to put me in jail.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:22]:
No, no, you didn't do anything wrong. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:27]:
It feels like it a little bit.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:28]:
I know, I know.

Walker Bird [00:45:29]:
But that's part of growth, Right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:32]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:45:32]:
Yeah. You ever say anything you wish you hadn't said?

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:36]:
Oh, of course. Of course, I'm sure daily I've done.

Walker Bird [00:45:41]:
Way worse than that, that I wish I hadn't said so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:47]:
Yeah. To me, that's, you know, the. The part when I bring up integrity. You know, when I'm talking to clients about integrity, I'm like, for me, the more intentional we are about living our life, the more integrity we have to ourselves. I don't need more things to think about when I'm trying to go to sleep at night or if I wake up during the night to then be going over what I should have said or what I shouldn't have said. So I continue to practice speaking intentionally so that I feel like I'm being integrous to myself. It doesn't mean that I don't say things that are harmful to people. There is.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:32]:
I am being very thoughtful and intentional because I want to reduce that likelihood. It still happens. All I can do is keep practicing.

Walker Bird [00:46:48]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:49]:
Yeah. And I will still harm people even if I am intentional, because I don't know how my words are going to land with everybody. I just. It's so funny because the client and I were talking about this today. I. Oof. This is a really tricky topic. He records all of our sessions because he has a brain injury, and it's very difficult for him to remember what we talk about longer than probably 10 or 15 minutes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:31]:
And so he records them, and he was talking about how helpful it is for him because he'll listen to sessions over and over, and he learns so much from them, and it's very helpful for him. And we were talking about, you know, whether that is something that, you know, is uncomfortable for me. And I said, no, it's not. I've had other clients record sessions. I don't have a problem with that. As a clinician, I'm guessing some people record sessions now, and I don't even know that they are. I said what I. What I have worked on is making sure that what I say is thoughtful and clear, even if it is hard to hear.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:18]:
And I do my best to stay in that place where, if I had to defend myself, that I could explain why I said the thing that I said. That's what I'm working on. Yeah. But there for sure are things, you know, we are human. We are not always on our game. We are tired, we are sick, we are frustrated, we're exhausted, we're sick. I mean, there's a lot.

Walker Bird [00:48:48]:
Or we say something that somebody can use and make it sound like it was something else.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:57]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:48:57]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:58]:
What's coming to mind when you say that.

Walker Bird [00:49:00]:
An interaction with a client's child, adult, son, phone conversation that we had.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:12]:
Oh, gotcha. Okay. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:49:16]:
Which I'm guessing was recorded because phrases kept being quoted back to me in exchanges.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:26]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:49:26]:
Taken out of context.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:28]:
Yeah. All we can do is be clear.

Walker Bird [00:49:30]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:31]:
We can't remember. I mean, I say this in session all the time. As best as I can recall.

Walker Bird [00:49:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:37]:
As best as I can recall. I think I do that here on the podcast all the time. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:49:41]:
And with me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:44]:
Because I don't. Even though I'm really intentional, I don't always remember the wording that I use about something, but. Well, thank you for sharing your process today, babe. I know that it, like you said, a lot of emotion. It's connected to a lot of things.

Walker Bird [00:50:03]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:06]:
Yeah. But I don't.

Walker Bird [00:50:08]:
Seems like it shouldn't be such a big deal. I just thought my dad would like, that's a tempest and a teapot. I don't know. That's probably me beating myself up. Anyway. It is what it is.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:21]:
It is what it is. You didn't do anything wrong.

Walker Bird [00:50:25]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:26]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:50:28]:
But he sure did. So there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:36]:
Right? So there.

Walker Bird [00:50:41]:
Oh.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:43]:
I think we're going to go for a walk after this.

Walker Bird [00:50:46]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:47]:
Sound good?

Walker Bird [00:50:47]:
I love you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:50]:
I love you, too. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth, and we strive to be more compassionate every day.