"At 12 Years Old, I Knew I Was Supposed to Help People"

Walker Bird [00:00:04]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:32]:
Okay. Well, hello.

Carlen Sims [00:00:34]:
Hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:35]:
How are you, Carlen?

Carlen Sims [00:00:36]:
Good, good, good. I'm excited.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:38]:
Yeah. What are you excited for?

Carlen Sims [00:00:41]:
Because I look forward to this type of stuff, being able to sit down and talk. I'm a talker. I'm a big talker. Yeah. I like it to be directed. Most of the times I can just ramble, but I can keep it directed. I can stay on task.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:59]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:01:00]:
For the most part.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:02]:
Well, when. When I brought up you being on the podcast, do you remember what your reaction was?

Carlen Sims [00:01:10]:
No, what was. What was my reaction? Was I excited? Was I just like, oh, I think you were excited.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:14]:
Yeah, I think it was that. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:01:16]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:16]:
So no hesitation.

Carlen Sims [00:01:17]:
I mean, that's still. Yeah, that's still how I feel, like. Yeah, absolutely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:22]:
Good, good. Okay, well, tell us some of your story. How'd you get here to today? And then we can talk about your process of learning to trust yourself, where you are, and what your knowing feels like.

Carlen Sims [00:01:35]:
Process of getting here today, as far as here on the podcast, or just, like, where I am in life. In life, how much time we got. That process is an interesting one. And I like to think of it as kind of like a string to keep me on track, like going through a forest where there's a bunch of different things going on, and I'm, like, holding onto the string for a little bit in my life, and I'm going over here. I'm like, well, let me go over here for a little bit and explore this and do a little bit of that. But I feel like I always had something to kind of bring me back to what I thought my purpose was, which was helping people. And it just kind of took on a different life at each point of my life, like, helping people in different ways, you know, and kind of being able to branch out and help other people, because I knew that I needed help. So I think that kind of led me to, like, all right, what does it feel like to help somebody else? And I feel like in that process, that actually helped me, and now I'm kind of going through the process of, like, okay, I'm helping a lot of people, but what.

Carlen Sims [00:02:52]:
And it's. It feels good, but what is helping me look like so I think that's. That's really just how I decided this career path. And I've always had stuff to kind of build on each other.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:11]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:03:12]:
So when I was younger, and this is a little bit of an embarrassing story, I'm like talking to somebody on. We all had AOL Instant messenger back in the day.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:24]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:03:25]:
So I'm talking to this person and they were talking about how they're going through a hard time and they had, I think, just lost their dad. And I was probably like 11 or 12 at the time. So it's pretty, like, heavy stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:39]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:03:39]:
But I did feel like I was comfortable enough to, like, help them through that. And then I kind of like started this, like, planted a seed in my mind of I'm supposed to help other people through hard things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:50]:
Wow.

Carlen Sims [00:03:51]:
And I just took steps towards that and kind of like watered it along the way as I went through life. So from that moment and my dad having a background in psychology, I was always fascinated with the mind and the way people thought, their thought processes. Why do people do the things they do? So from that, that curiosity that helping people kind of just set me on that path to. To help other people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:25]:
Yeah. What are some of the things that you've explored as ways to help people?

Carlen Sims [00:04:31]:
Well, in high school, I started with helping out in, like, recess, which as an 18 year old was interesting to say the least. But I was able to kind of just be around the kids because I wanted to see what it was like to be around them in their environment in a way that they could, like, express themselves because I felt like it'd be beneficial. And then I went from just having a class like that to getting a job where I was around kids more. So I was able to just kind of meet kids where they're at, because relationships are very important to me. So being able to build that relationship with these kids while they're in a safe environment was like the beginning of that process of helping them. Then I started to get involved with my church. Growing up, I was in church and the church I grew up in very. I don't know by the book, you know, very rules, and didn't really feel like you could be who you are.

Carlen Sims [00:05:40]:
Then I went somewhere else where people went in, like, all types of crazy and all types of themselves, and they were all accepted. And I was like, oh, this is what this is supposed to look like. And our pastor was able to go out into the neighborhoods where people were, and we helped. So instead of just being in those environments now we're like in the school and different programs. Now I'm like, just in neighborhoods helping people, like cutting their grass, taking trash out, doing things that were service based. So now I'm helping in a different aspect.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:24]:
Wow.

Carlen Sims [00:06:24]:
So I'm helping people's like, physical needs. And I think from there I'm going into college and like, I know what I want to do. So how do I. How do I get there? How do I turn these passions and all this experience into a career that pays my bills, you know, because that's just how I want to live my life. I want to live my life being able to help people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:48]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:06:49]:
So I think all those kind of led to my first missions trip, which it was grief therapy when I went to Kenya. And that was a big. That played the biggest role probably in my career where I am today.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:10]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:07:11]:
Because we had some of those experiences I had when I was in high school growing up. I now had that not same experience, but that experience in a different country with a different need and three different levels. So I worked with elementary school aged kids and orphanage and kind of got to be around them. And instead of just being around them running groups and helping them process through like grief and doing the same model in a high school with those kids, which story about that. We had an interpreter and there's a picture of this instance happening where I'm running the group. He's supposed to be helping me, and he falls asleep while we're running the group. All the other kids are interested and they're like, in it. I look over and he's just dead asleep.

Carlen Sims [00:08:07]:
I'm like, I guess I'm on my own in this. But it provided me with a great experience to be able to be like, leading a group by myself with kids who I don't know from Adam, but we're connecting. And that's like, I can't explain or describe like that feeling to somebody of being able to connect and help somebody. It's kind of like a, like a flow state, Right. Where you, you feel like in tune with these people because you feel like you understand them more. And then it was a different experience when I worked with like the adults because at this point in time, I'm like maybe 19 or 20 years old.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:50]:
Wow.

Carlen Sims [00:08:50]:
And these men are in their 30s and 40s and have struggled with alcoholism and grief their entire lives. And talk about like imposter syndrome and feeling underqualified. Wow.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:01]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:09:02]:
But I was able to lead a group with them too. And it's like, man, people Just need help, and they're willing to listen to anybody for it. So those experiences just, I don't know, kind of hardwired me to feel a little bit of confidence in the skills and abilities that I've learned to be able to help people. And the biggest thing that I took away from all that is the fact that I didn't have to just sit in that space. I could also, like, learn how to operate in another space. And I can. I could still learn. I could be a continuous learner of, like, different skills and techniques to be able to help other people because the needs were different the more I started doing that stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:09:51]:
So nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:52]:
How long were you on that mission?

Carlen Sims [00:09:55]:
I was in Kenya for, I think, two weeks.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:59]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:10:01]:
Yeah. So, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:03]:
What do you feel like You. What was the biggest surprise for you, for yourself on that trip?

Carlen Sims [00:10:13]:
Well, there were so many surprises. I think the biggest surprise was not necessarily that it was so different, but that it was a lot of the same, if that makes sense. Like, problems don't leave people, no matter where they are in the world.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:42]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:10:43]:
And those problems may have different reasons of starting, but they all end up, like, in the same spot where this person may have millions of dollars and be able to do whatever they want, but they still may struggle with the same thing as a person who has a tin shack for a house. And those problems can be persistent, and it doesn't cure, like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:15]:
Right. You're.

Carlen Sims [00:11:17]:
It doesn't care about any of that. Like, it's just gonna. It just kind of attacks you. So that was like, wow.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:26]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:11:27]:
They're dealing with this here. It's like, man, then there's a culture shock of coming back to the States and stepping on somebody's shoe, and they're being mad about that. I was like, oh, don't. Don't get me started. I've seen some things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:45]:
Right, right.

Carlen Sims [00:11:46]:
Yeah. But, yeah, that's my biggest takeaway is that people need help no matter what.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:52]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:11:53]:
And if they're willing to accept it, then. And they're ready. They don't care what you look like or where you're from. They're just willing. So the need is out there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:04]:
Yeah, the need is out there. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:12:07]:
For sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:09]:
Yeah. So interesting. What are you thinking?

Walker Bird [00:12:12]:
I want to take you back to 12 years old. It's, you know, you're having this conversation with a friend, and somehow this knowing comes to you. Whether it's in that moment or not, I don't know yet. But it was like, that was the beginning point of this you finding a life purpose?

Carlen Sims [00:12:32]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:12:33]:
And I don't, you know, that hasn't been my experience and I don't know that it's a lot of people's experience to actually find a purpose or the beginning of that purpose and be able to identify it and then it actually follows through to where you are today. So could you tell us a little bit more about that? And I know it's a 12 year old's brain that's looking at things, but how, you know, what was the knowing piece of that for you?

Carlen Sims [00:12:58]:
Well, I think it was, I didn't really, like, there was a little bit of empathy there without really knowing like what it is, because I know the difference between empathy and sympathy. But I felt like I felt bad for this person, but I wasn't in their shoes. And I think what I was thinking in my 12 year old mind, it's like, man, what if I was going through this? What would I want somebody to say to me? And like, what could help this person to move past this? Because I can't leave them like where they are. And I think that was just my thought process back then of like, I can't just leave this conversation like knowing that this person is hurting because then it's gonna feel like a weight on me. So I think knowing that I had some stability is I was able to not just use it for myself, but kind of extend it to somebody else in a different way. Because I obviously can't like lend out my parents to people like that. Like, I can't be like, oh, just talk to my dad, because it's not the same thing.

Walker Bird [00:14:13]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:14:14]:
But it's like just the figuring out, like, what can I do to help? I can't do much, but what can I do? So I think knowing that I had the ability to offer something and trying to figure out what that is, I feel like that kind of set me on a journey of like, you can do something, but you have to figure out what it is that you can do. And I knew that people do what I do now. They sat and talked to people and I felt like that's what I was supposed to do. And I know it's very uncommon. I ask people all the time, what do you want to do with your life? And they don't know. And it's like I've been knowing what I wanted to do since that moment and it's, I don't know, it is unique and I almost feel like weird about it, talking about it. It's like, yeah, I'm like, why am I this anomaly?

Walker Bird [00:15:13]:
But what's weird about it, about having this knowing about your purpose from early?

Carlen Sims [00:15:23]:
Maybe uncommon is a better word because it's not, it's not weird, you know, it's just uncommon. Yeah, because you know, you don't want to. Because I think there's this piece of humility that comes along with knowing you're supposed to do something. But also my mom always told me not to get the big heads. Like, I don't ever want to feel like I'm better than anybody because by nature what I'm doing is trying to help other people feel good about themselves. So it's like playing this balance of I'm not better than anybody for knowing this when I was younger, but I just want to help other people get to the point where they know who they are. And that has nothing to do with me. That has everything to do with, like, this is something that I can help to foster them kind of in the same way that I was like, I can't give you my dad, but I can help give you some comfort in this moment at the very least.

Carlen Sims [00:16:24]:
And I think I've had to learn how to evolve my skills to be able to do that at a higher level, I guess.

Walker Bird [00:16:31]:
Sure. You mentioned a flow state when you're, when you do work. What's that like for you? What's a flow state for you?

Carlen Sims [00:16:45]:
I like. Well, I said this a lot. I like to talk a lot. And sometimes if I have the skills, if I have a skill set in my head of like a technique that I want to use, then, and I've practiced that over and over again, I will start talking. And this is a problem. In college, my professor asked me to come back because she felt like I talked too much and like I didn't let people talk, so I had to work on that. But if I have like this two to five minute window where I'm able to explain something to somebody and kind of my mind works in metaphors. If I'm able to lay out a metaphor for somebody, for them to be able to like see the picture of what I'm trying to convey to them in a way that they're able to take it, then that's kind of what a flow state feels like to me.

Carlen Sims [00:17:39]:
Like I'm just like, I'm talking but I'm looking, I'm in attentive to like if they're understanding or not. And if I need to like adjust things in the moment, I'm not necessarily thinking about that. I'm reacting in the same way that an athlete would react to a move from somebody else. I'm just doing that in my head of like, what does this person need? Okay, this isn't really working. I need to adjust. I need to make sure that they are feeling comfortable and they're able to see this clearly. And if they're confused and okay, they're squinting their eyebrows, but now they're getting back. Like, all this is going on in my head because I'm trying to curate a moment for that person to.

Carlen Sims [00:18:17]:
To help them to get clarity of whatever it is. So flow state kind of just feels like me talking until I get verbal or physical cues that another person is kind of tracking with me because I want them to be better.

Walker Bird [00:18:38]:
Sure.

Carlen Sims [00:18:40]:
Whatever that means. With the understanding that one conversation with me doesn't change a person. It may give them an idea of something. But I'm just trying to. I don't have moments after that. I just have this moment. So I think that kind of helps.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:01]:
So you mentioned earlier about your dad having a background in psychology. So tell us more about that.

Carlen Sims [00:19:09]:
Well, my dad, yeah, he talks about his, like, experiments in psychology and what he did in college. And they did more like training with rats and kind of seeing their patterns and things like that. So he did like a lot of hands on stuff and I thought that was super cool. I don't necessarily like rats, so I never done anything like that. But I also experienced some of his skills as him just being a parent. Like him just being my dad.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:40]:
Yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:19:41]:
Like, I talk about this instance where I was upset in the car about something and I was ready for him to be mad at me as well. That's just what I was expecting at the time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:54]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:19:55]:
And he starts talking to me about something that he knew that I liked and he knew that I was like going to be able to talk about whatever that is and what he was doing. Like, I'm seeing this in my adult life now. What he was doing was he was pulling me from my brain stem back up to my frontal lobe by talking about this stuff that he knows I have to think about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:19]:
Right, right.

Carlen Sims [00:20:20]:
And that example, like living that was just like, oh, so that's what you're doing because you can't have a conversation back here. Like, these are yelling matches, these are conversations. He just had such a way to do that and to connect with people in a way that they were able to like, okay, now I can have a conversation. So he's. I don't know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:46]:
Yeah, yeah. It makes Me think of, like, some of the techniques that they talk about when someone's having a panic attack. You know, you can ask them to start doing, you know, mathematical computations in their head or, you know, focus on something. Yes. It's engaging your prefrontal cortex. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:21:06]:
He just did that. As a parent, I'm just like, gosh, what is he like, he's read these books a little too much.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:15]:
Yeah, that's good.

Carlen Sims [00:21:16]:
It's all good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:17]:
Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:21:19]:
And it's working, but you're irritated.

Carlen Sims [00:21:21]:
It's working. Yeah, it was working, but I was just like, I wish this wasn't working. Just let me be mad.

Walker Bird [00:21:30]:
Parenting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:32]:
Yes. Yeah, Yeah. I was gonna say Carlen knows about that.

Carlen Sims [00:21:36]:
Yeah, Yeah, I do. My kids are great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:39]:
Yeah, they're adorable.

Carlen Sims [00:21:41]:
They're just young. Yeah. Like, I have. I just have to teach them that they don't know yet. I have to teach them. Yeah, Patience. Patience is hard, but.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:55]:
Yeah, yeah, get it. They are sweet. They are sweet, and they are very curious. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:22:01]:
Yeah, curious.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:06]:
So next to your dad, what are some other, I don't know, people or things that you feel like you've experienced that have been, I don't know, good teachers for you and learning more about yourself?

Carlen Sims [00:22:22]:
Hmm. That's a good question. I've had a lot of good examples. I feel like my parents are probably the main ones. Like, I feel like my dad helped me to kind of get energy out and explore, and I feel like my mom was always there to listen. So, like, I'm a combination of my mom and my dad. I feel like she was able to listen a lot to what I was saying. And we talk about this instance, and I kind of remember it where I was like, mom, I have feelings, too.

Carlen Sims [00:22:59]:
And she said that was, like, such a moment for her of, like, understanding. Like, oh, you do have feelings, you know, and kind of being able to empathize with me from there. So she kind of helped me whenever I had issues or problems a little bit too much sometimes. Like, she taught me how to fight because I got beat up one day, and she did not let me cry. She was like, no, get in this driveway. She put her hands up like this and, like, hit my hands. And I'm, like, crying and looking at her, like, confused as a kid would be, but just. She was a good support.

Carlen Sims [00:23:39]:
Also. My best friend's dad, Pastor Al, he was a good mentor. He just put me in positions to be successful, and I appreciated that, like, when I didn't have a job. He's like, hey, come work for us. You're gonna go cut grass for the city. And that was one of the most fun jobs I had. I got to go out with my friends and cut six foot tall grass at times and clean up people's yards and. Yeah, had those two of those three people.

Carlen Sims [00:24:19]:
And I had a lot of coaches in college who were good for me and always felt comfortable talking to them about, like, different things. And just having people to go to kind of showed me that, hey, if people are struggling, you can be a person that people can go to to vent without judgment.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:45]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:24:46]:
So having those spaces were. That was huge for me, having known that I could be struggling with, like, just about anything and go to them and they'd be a listening ear.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:58]:
Nice.

Carlen Sims [00:25:00]:
So, yeah, lots of. I feel like I've had lots of support.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:06]:
Which probably feeds some of the work you do today.

Carlen Sims [00:25:09]:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:12]:
Wanting to be that for other people.

Carlen Sims [00:25:14]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:17]:
Yeah. So what would you say your knowing is today? How do you know that you're clear about a choice that you're making and that, I don't know, experience of trusting yourself?

Carlen Sims [00:25:35]:
Well, I think it's a good question because there's a struggle sometimes with that, that part about, like, knowing yourself and kind of trusting yourself. Like, the whole process of me becoming a therapist was a whole point of contention in my marriage. And it was all because I made choices based off of me knowing what my worth is and what I could bring to this space of being a therapist. And there was never any doubt there, but the timing is kind of what I, like, messed up. But I feel like I knew that I was able to help people and not have to rely on. I felt like I did good work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:36]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:26:36]:
Like, I did good work. And I felt like when I had sessions, I was able to provide an environment for people to feel comfortable enough to tell their friends and tell other people, like, hey, you should go to this guy. And I think that being able to do that was kind of like my knowing, like, hey, I can. I can do this. And just being able to overcome some. Some doubts that I may have had in my mind of, like, can I do this? And some of those, like, wounds of, like, childhood of, like, not being able to do something or feeling like you're not accepted or like you can't. Like, just these things that were built up. I felt like were this came to.

Carlen Sims [00:27:29]:
This came to a head of like, this is a moment where it can make or break you. And I felt like I needed to kind of bet on that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. So when you are, like, thinking about your role as a parent, you know, your children are young, when you're making a choice, like, you know, interacting with them, like.

Carlen Sims [00:28:01]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:02]:
Is there a process that you go through when you're trying to figure out, like, how to engage with them around a teaching or a learning, you know, for them? Like, let's say you're trying to teach them about, I don't know, picking up their room. Is there, like, a process that you go through, like, that's intentional about how you parent or.

Carlen Sims [00:28:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I think kind of going back to the last question and kind of tying this in is a part of my knowing was like, this career path, and I think this other part that was like, why do I want to do this? Why do I want to work so hard? It's like, so I can spend more time with my family. So I think at the heart of it is, like, how can I provide comfort for my family? Like, how can I be more available for my family? Yeah, because that's what I want. Like, I want to be able to spend time with my kids at home. I want to be able to, like, be there for them as I get into middle school and high school, and they know that dad can show up. So I think that's above, like, anything else. Like, that's my main driver, which is.

Carlen Sims [00:29:20]:
Which is what made me so relentless towards pursuing this. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:24]:
Sure.

Carlen Sims [00:29:26]:
But when I approach my kids, when it comes to. Excuse me, just like, anything, I try to come with that thought process of I am teaching them something for the first time. And when teaching something for the first time, it needs to be repeated, and it's not their fault. I have to be patient. And it's like, I can't be the one to lose my cool. They have to. If they're gonna lose their cool about something, I have to let them. I have to be calm so they can borrow my calm.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:02]:
Right. Right.

Carlen Sims [00:30:03]:
So there's a lot of. So that's my, like, therapist answer. And sometimes, you know, I get frustrated and just like. It's just like, you just need to clean your room, you know, like, you need to quit crying. But there is. When I have these moments of, like, clarity and these moments of peace, I'm just like, hey, don't worry about it. I'm not mad. Let's just do this, and we're gonna practice this.

Carlen Sims [00:30:31]:
So my thought process, when I, like, need to teach them something is like, they're learning this for the first time, and I need to make this A how can I make this a positive memory? How can I make this not a part of the trauma that I'm going to give them inevitably, you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:45]:
Yes. Yes.

Carlen Sims [00:30:46]:
So yes. And the other thing is just like they're only be little for so long.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:55]:
Yes.

Carlen Sims [00:30:56]:
So sometimes like, yes, we need to go to bed and sometimes I can't just spend all night in your bedroom, but sometimes I can, you know, So I think that balance of. I need to be able to teach them and be stern but fair, but also like understand that they just need their dad sometimes. Because right now I'm gone a lot, but when I'm there I need to be present and like, like I'm not mad at them. I'm working so hard for them. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:28]:
Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. Thinking about I'm working so hard for them.

Carlen Sims [00:31:37]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:38]:
I think sometimes we can get caught up in, you know. Don't you understand how hard I'm working for you? Right, right. When it's like, no, they don't actually.

Carlen Sims [00:31:47]:
They don't understand at all. They're just like, wow, why are you not here?

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:52]:
Right. Why are you crouching at me? Right, right. Yeah. Because I'm tired. Because I was working hard.

Carlen Sims [00:31:59]:
Yeah. And it's hard and it's difficult and I'm not perfect at it and I don't think any of us are. So I want to make that clear, that I have some good skills and techniques. I'm also human. I also get mad and I try not to yell. I try not to yell, you know? Yeah. And try not to do some of those demonstrative things. I don't really yell anyway, so.

Carlen Sims [00:32:28]:
But I'm not a perfect parent. But I try.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:31]:
Yeah. I. It's the best we can do. Keep learning.

Carlen Sims [00:32:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:36]:
Yeah. I always say our kids are our biggest teachers if we allow that experience. They point out a lot of areas of growth.

Carlen Sims [00:32:46]:
Oh, for sure. Because being angry at a little kid doesn't even make sense because they don't even care. Like after a point they just like, why are you still mad? Like, are you serious? You just destroyed the house and you asked me why I'm mad. It's like, yeah, I don't get it. That's right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:06]:
Right, Exactly. Of course they don't.

Walker Bird [00:33:08]:
That's over now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:09]:
Right. Oh, what are the things that you do that are, I don't know, like your most self care things.

Carlen Sims [00:33:20]:
My self care things? Well, I do wake up early in the morning and I work out. And while I'm working out, I talk to my friends while they work out. So this has been like a two for one. And it's, it's been great. I've gotten like so much productivity out of it. I'm able to talk to my friends about hard things and kind of bounce ideas off of them and talk about like the struggles of marriage and raising kids. My friend, my best friend and I, like, we have very similar lives in parallels. And this has happened since we were like 18.

Carlen Sims [00:34:02]:
Like he got dumped, I got dumped. Like we went through a heartbreak at the same time. Like he would get a job, I would get a job. He. It was, it was, it's so parallel. When we were pregnant with our first kid, I called him, I said, hey man, you got something to tell me? And sure enough, they were pregnant too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:27]:
Wow, that's fascinating.

Carlen Sims [00:34:28]:
And this happened twice. So both of our kids are like days or months a month apart.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:37]:
Wow. Wow.

Carlen Sims [00:34:38]:
It's so, it's so wild. Yeah, it's so wild. So being able to have him and really him and his brothers, we're all friends, so. Oh, yeah, I like doing that. We got a sauna at home, so I enjoy doing that. So I, I do some self care things. I'm also looking for a good therapist, so. And that's, that's hard for me because I'm just like.

Carlen Sims [00:35:10]:
And I, I know it's not something I need to get over.

Walker Bird [00:35:12]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:35:13]:
It's like I just need somebody who is, who's good. And I think I held a standard to people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:23]:
Oh, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:35:24]:
And it's just like, well, it seemed to go talk to somebody who's willing to talk to me because either way I'm bringing problems.

Walker Bird [00:35:33]:
I'm bringing a lot of problems. So.

Carlen Sims [00:35:36]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. So I do some self care stuff.

Walker Bird [00:35:45]:
I think in your line of business, you know, it's just really important. Theresa and I talk about it a lot. It's just continuing to do your own work to help you bring your best, you know, and bring new things, new tools to help your clients.

Carlen Sims [00:36:01]:
Oh, for sure.

Walker Bird [00:36:02]:
So I'm glad you're doing that.

Carlen Sims [00:36:05]:
Yeah, Yeah. I think therapy would be good. I've like done it before and it was just like, man, this is good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:16]:
Yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:36:17]:
It's like, I get it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:19]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:36:20]:
I want to be in the other chair.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:22]:
Yes. Yeah. We do need. It's helpful for us to have people that we can process with. Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:36:35]:
Well, professionally and personally, I would think, you know, personally, just because you're dealing with your issues, but you're also seeing different techniques.

Carlen Sims [00:36:43]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:36:44]:
Different ways of approaching things. So it's just that observer mind while you're going through the process, too. Fascinating, I'm sure. Yeah. And you've had the experience. It took a while to find somebody you could really work with.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:37:02]:
It's good. It's all good stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:04]:
Yeah, it is. It is the process of, I don't know, I think learning, whether you're a therapist or in therapy, learning to. To risk being truly vulnerable, you know, and about, you know, what's happening for you. You know, I was thinking, you know, that we can have learned to have been so protected.

Carlen Sims [00:37:46]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:47]:
Growing up. That even in therapy, we can carry that right in to therapy. And really, we're not being any more transparent with our therapist than we are in our life outside of therapy. And, you know, really learning, you know, to risk. I mean, it's. It is a reminder, you know, for me, even if I have worked with a client, you know, on and off over the years, how sometimes it can take a while for us to get to a place where we can share that thing.

Carlen Sims [00:38:24]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:25]:
You know, that's really getting in our way. We had an awareness of it, you know, this whole time, but it's just like. But I couldn't, you know, get it out.

Carlen Sims [00:38:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get to that point. Like, I've seen it in therapy, like, talking to people. I'm like, okay, we're talking about this thing, but there's something else that you're waiting to get to. And once it happens, it's like the magical moment for them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:48]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I had that with someone earlier today. I was like, oh, yeah, I know what you're saying now, you know, and she's like, what am I saying?

Walker Bird [00:39:04]:
Well, that's part of your job is to help us recognize even. Because you know it, but you don't know it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:10]:
Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Knowing you don't know it or maybe even afraid to say it.

Walker Bird [00:39:16]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:18]:
And then it's like, oh, but you keep saying it, but you're not saying it. You're. You're talking around it. Right, right. You know, that. That process. You know, I talk often about that process of learning to, you know, trust ourself and trust our knowing and.

Carlen Sims [00:39:37]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:38]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:39:39]:
Trusting ourselves. Yeah, that's a. That's a good point of trusting yourself. I feel like there are moments where I don't trust myself and that. That doubt sets me up for failure. And I think that's kind of like the area of, like, man, how come I Keep letting this bother me. How come I keep letting this, like, self doubt keep playing itself in my mind? It's just. And I talk so much about the way that you think about yourself and the thoughts that you have and combating those thoughts.

Carlen Sims [00:40:22]:
Because it's important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:23]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:40:24]:
And it's like, man, somebody needs to tell me that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:31]:
I need the reminder too. Right, Right. Yeah. And we do. We do. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:40:37]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:40:37]:
So if you were, if you were given advice to a person about how to deal with failure or setbacks, those doubts are coming, what advice would you give them? You know, to get in touch with their inner knowing.

Carlen Sims [00:40:55]:
Override the doubts by creating a success plan. Make a plan for you to be successful and start small and scale it up. Because when you start small with something that you feel like you're, you have a doubt about in yourself, like you're, you need to be able to see that first step. And once you see a few of those, there's like, okay, I can take a bigger step. Then you can just scaffold those and like, those things can compound, like, interest into, oh, all of a sudden, why was I ever doubtful of myself? I just needed to take this first step. So that's what I would tell somebody else. I feel like I know what you're getting at. What would I tell myself?

Walker Bird [00:41:42]:
I was underlying the question. No, but I, um. Yeah. It's just so funny. Our self perspective and I, you know, we all do it.

Carlen Sims [00:41:52]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:41:53]:
But I think looking at it from that perspective may be helpful for each of us. So we think it's a good teaching. Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:02]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need reminders.

Walker Bird [00:42:07]:
Are there resources or, or people out there that you, you know, would recommend, like, a book that's really made a difference for you or some philosophy or mantra?

Carlen Sims [00:42:22]:
There's, I think that's been. That's one of those things that I tried to become better at this last couple years really is like reading books because I'm like, I need to have more information about how to make myself better, how to help other people make themselves better if they want to. So the book that I started with was Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So I think that was like the first one that I read, I was like, oh, okay, this is, this is good. You know, I got to know what these seven habits are and like, why they work. And I think when I moved from that, I moved to atomic habits. And that is like, it's a lot of, like, what I've learned to do and a lot of what, how I've learned To overcome things and just being able to read. I'll read it like once or twice a year now.

Carlen Sims [00:43:27]:
Oh, really? Because I. I just need those reminders of like, okay, when I'm starting to feel like I'm in a funk, it's like, okay, I wasn't always in a funk. So what was the thing that helped me? And I go back to, like, some of those habits. It's like, okay, I need to set up my space so that I can. So things are easier. So once I kind of went back to that book and me and my wife kind of sat down, we were like, what do we need to do to make our lives easier? Our life is hectic right now. We don't like that. What do we need to do to make it better? And she's like, we just need to make our space more functional.

Carlen Sims [00:44:07]:
So it's just one of the things that the book says is to make it easy, make it attractive. And we moved our gym from outside in the garage to inside in the laundry room. It's like, then we came up with a solution for our shoes and, like, just simple things that the idea was to make it easy to clean the house in a short amount of time. Everything has a home, you know, so. Because if you have cluttered space, you have cluttered mine. And to clean that up.

Walker Bird [00:44:42]:
So does your wife know that you're working on Atomic Habits together?

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:51]:
It's not.

Walker Bird [00:44:52]:
Wasn't a trick question. I just wondered if you were having that discussion and looking at them together.

Carlen Sims [00:44:57]:
No, we weren't having that discussion together about necessarily the book, but some of the habits. Yeah, we've talked about, like, let's make our space livable and easy for us.

Walker Bird [00:45:12]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:45:13]:
So that we can have. And what that has done for us is it helped us to make space for the other things that we wanted to do in our life, like just spending time with our kids, going outside, doing things around the city that we've wanted to do, like picking up and going to a park or something. It's like, when we're not worried about, like, our house, then feels like we have freedom to do that. We've had it all along, but there's just this clutter in the mind of, like, man, we gotta clean the house all the time. It's like, if the space is clean, then now we can make space to do other things, other projects. So. So 7 habits. Atomic habits for Marriage.

Carlen Sims [00:46:02]:
I look at if he only knew and man, that book kind of gave me a whole different perspective. It was just like A. It's not her fault that you have insecurities and you have issues that you need to work through. So how about you work on those and then that'll make things a little bit easier for you. Release her of all the responsibility to fix you, and things might work out in your favor. Like, one of the examples in the book was the guy was. He wanted his wife back, and they're going through the divorce process, and he's like, give her everything she wants and then some. And she's like, what? Like, this is crazy.

Carlen Sims [00:46:50]:
But he did it. And. Because it. It sends a message. Like, every. Everything that we do sends a message, whether we are conscious of it or not, sends a message that I care or I don't care.

Walker Bird [00:47:03]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:47:04]:
And I don't know, that was, like, one of those things that stuck out to me, like, oh, you have to be sacrificial and not expecting anything in return. You know, I think that it's that expectation that kind of gets us, like, kind of messed up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:22]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:47:23]:
Like, I did this, so I expect this. And for a man, that's dangerous because there's so much that goes on that we have no clue about, that we just need to, like, do what we need to do to appreciate what we have. So those three books, I would say, are a good start. I've got lots more, but.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:46]:
Yeah. What was the name of the last book?

Carlen Sims [00:47:49]:
If he only knew.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:50]:
If he Only Knew.

Walker Bird [00:47:50]:
I haven't heard of that one.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:51]:
The other two know that I have either.

Carlen Sims [00:47:53]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:53]:
Yeah. So interesting.

Walker Bird [00:47:56]:
I really like the relationship piece, you know, of the. When I know you weren't discussing it in terms of the book, but you. You actually were discussing it in terms of the book, but, you know, as a couple, if you sat down together with something like that, it would be a chance to really create, like, this team.

Carlen Sims [00:48:15]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:48:16]:
You know, if. If you both have buy in. This is one of the things we can work on together to make it better for all of us. It's just as powerful stuff. And you did it just informally, so I thought that was really.

Carlen Sims [00:48:29]:
Yeah. Okay. All right. I guess I didn't think about that. I'm just like, man, we need to figure out. To do with these shoes, you know?

Walker Bird [00:48:41]:
But that went from that into a lot more. Right.

Carlen Sims [00:48:44]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:48:44]:
Because then you're telling us about time with the kids and.

Carlen Sims [00:48:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:48:47]:
It's sweet.

Carlen Sims [00:48:49]:
It's. Yeah, it's great.

Walker Bird [00:48:51]:
I like it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:52]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:48:52]:
We can't get time back, so got to use it wisely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:58]:
Yeah. It's interesting. It Makes me think about the process of, you know, not overdoing it with our kids, but exposing them to, you know, like, this mindset of learning. Right. And I don't mean just school, but I just mean, like, there's always more to learn. Yeah, there's always more to be curious about. Like, there's. There.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:29]:
There will always be something that you don't know much about or know anything about. It's. When you were talking about. I think it was Atomic Habits I was thinking about. I think I was 18 or 19, and I was in college and had my first, I don't know, corporate job. How about that? Yeah, I had other jobs, but. And they sent me to, like, a continuing education. Something.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:04]:
I don't remember, but I remember, you know, how we used to get. Well, maybe not you. You might be a little young.

Carlen Sims [00:50:10]:
Let's. Let's see.

Walker Bird [00:50:11]:
Let's remember, I knew it before you. Did it actually go there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:18]:
Maybe when you were still in grade school. They had, like, the Scholastic books, and you'd get, like, the really thin flyers with all the different books in them. Is that how Scholastic Books was? Okay. Anyway, so they had that, like, at this conference, and they had, you know, given me the ability to, like, buy one, like, resource at the. And I bought the Psychology of Achievement by Brian Tracy on cassette tape. And I still have it. Oh, yeah. And I would listen to that over and over and over and over while I would drive, you know, between home and school and work and whatever.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:00]:
And it was so interesting because when I then walked into this field, you know, people would be like, how do you know that? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I just would say, I don't know. And then I think about 10 years ago, I came across that set of cassette tapes and started listening to them. And I was like, well, that's why I know.

Carlen Sims [00:51:23]:
That makes sense. That checks out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:25]:
That sounds very familiar.

Walker Bird [00:51:28]:
If you've never read any Brian Tracy or listened to him. He's really good. I would guess you. No, you haven't.

Carlen Sims [00:51:34]:
No, I haven't.

Walker Bird [00:51:35]:
If you're looking at any recommendations, Long Atomic Habits and Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Yeah, Brian's right up there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:43]:
Yeah. And I would find the old version, like, if you go on to audible, do the classic version, not the. The. You know, because they took all of that. They made a really short version, which I bought for one of my kids. And I'm listening to it, and I'm like, this is not what I listen to. But they do have the classic version now on audible, and it was just, you know, really helpful. And I'm not saying I agree with everything now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:07]:
At my age, I look back and think, oh, I don't know that I agree with that now. But it was still such a great foundation for me to have any understanding of myself or other people, because I just had none. Yeah. Just none.

Carlen Sims [00:52:23]:
Yeah. We get to that point, I was like, who am I really? That was a hard question growing up. Like, who am I? It's like I talk about knowing what I wanted to do, but that is different than knowing who I was. Yeah. Because I didn't know for a long time because, you know, growing up, I was very angry. And, you know, you have to do something with that anger. So I played sports and I played football because I could hit people and not feel bad about it. I wasn't very good, but I did it.

Carlen Sims [00:53:04]:
And that becomes your identity. Especially, like, in high school, in college, like, yeah, who. I'm a football player.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:13]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:53:14]:
And, man, my grandmother, I feel like, knew that, and she was like, you are a student athlete. You're a student first. So I was like, okay, so I'm a student athlete. I can be an athlete, but I have to be a student. That doesn't mean I was good at school. But I knew that the athlete part would have to stop at some point. So I think, man, my grandma helped me out tremendously because that's not a common thing to just, like, know. Like, okay, this is over.

Carlen Sims [00:53:46]:
And that's never been who I truly was. I'm more than that. So now I can do other things.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:52]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:53:53]:
So she doesn't know how much she actually helped me by saying, you're a student first. Because I knew, okay, this is going to end. Like, after my last game, people were like, oh, were you sad? Like, a little bit. But I knew that I was going into something else, and that was just like, what life was like. Life is not all sports.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:12]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:54:14]:
It has to be for some people for a certain amount of time. But the numbers say you should have a back plan.

Walker Bird [00:54:21]:
It's pretty slim.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:24]:
Yay, Grandma.

Carlen Sims [00:54:25]:
Like, we need doctors and lawyers and psychologists and professors. We need those people, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:31]:
Yeah. Electricians.

Carlen Sims [00:54:33]:
Electricians.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:35]:
All of it. Right. We need. Right.

Carlen Sims [00:54:37]:
All these people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:38]:
We need all. Yes. All of us to keep everything going.

Carlen Sims [00:54:42]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:43]:
Isn't that funny? You can make, you know, like, Grandma's comment. I don't know if she said it all the time or not, but if it's just an aside, sometimes and it can make such a huge difference in somebody's life. This, you know, wisdom comes that way. Way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:56]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:54:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:57]:
So crazy.

Carlen Sims [00:54:57]:
Just these one. These one offs just like shapes the rest of your life. So. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:07]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:55:08]:
Trying to use words accordingly. Intentionally.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:12]:
Intentionally. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Walker Bird [00:55:15]:
It's important to do our best.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:17]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:18]:
We won't always do it wisely. No, no, we won't try parenting. I'm on the far side of where you are. My daughter's 25 now, but, man.

Carlen Sims [00:55:32]:
Don't tell me that.

Walker Bird [00:55:33]:
No, I didn't know. I mean, there's the. You do a great. You know, there's many great things that you do. And then there's, like you said, it's. It's unavoidable that we're going to create trauma for our children in one way or another.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:48]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:55:48]:
And it's. It's just. That's life and you've learned your way through it. And then one thing that you do is ask them as they're getting older, is there something I said or didn't say, did or didn't do that you'd like me to know?

Carlen Sims [00:56:05]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:05]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:56:06]:
That's good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. And then I just say, you know, when. When that comes to mind, you know, please tell me about it. Um, because most likely what I'm worried about, you don't remember, and the things you're upset about, I may not remember. Um, but let's just, you know, talk about it. And really, just giving them permission.

Carlen Sims [00:56:27]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:28]:
You know, is a big deal.

Carlen Sims [00:56:31]:
It's funny you say that. I kind of took permission this Christmas when I was talking to my parents.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:36]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:56:36]:
I was just like, I wrote a letter to both of them saying all the things that, you know, kind of like the sandwich technique. This was great. I wish you would have done this more. But you're still a great parent, you know, and kind of like. So I like the idea of, like, giving your kids an option to do that. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:59]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:56:59]:
Because I was like, I'm not waiting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:02]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:57:03]:
I'm taking this opportunity right now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:57:07]:
That's good, though.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:08]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:09]:
Did that open the door to further discussion?

Carlen Sims [00:57:12]:
No.

Walker Bird [00:57:13]:
Okay.

Carlen Sims [00:57:15]:
I mean, I think my mom is more open to discussion than my dad, but it did. We did have a good conversation afterwards. And that was kind of what I expected of my dad. He's a man of few words, but when he speaks, speaks, it's like, man, I wish you would say more. Which is exactly what I told him. I was like, I wish you would have talked to me more. Because when he did, he gave me those skills, you know, I mean, I told you that story and that was like just one time in the car.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:48]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:57:49]:
Just imagine a 45 minute conversation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:56]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:57:57]:
But he did so much good for me and I'm just like, okay, yeah. Trying to get more out of them.

Walker Bird [00:58:02]:
Sure. I think, you know, the process of having the courage to open that door, you know, and then to open it again if you need to, if the time is right. But it's part of the process for you is just the doing of it.

Carlen Sims [00:58:18]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:18]:
The other person may not be receptive in that moment. You just never know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:22]:
Right?

Carlen Sims [00:58:23]:
Yeah, I think he told me kind of like what shaped him and his, like, ideals. Cause I think his dad was not as open to things. I think he taught him through, like doing a lot. And yeah, he's kind of just a blue collar worker who worked on World War II ships and went up to Youngstown to start his family and had a bunch of kids and just working and it's like there's not a lot of time for sitting down and talking about what we feel in that time. And I think my dad wanted to do a little bit better than that. And I felt like he did feel like he did a little bit better and I want to do a little bit better than him. So, yeah, I feel like he took that first step to be able to. Because we did have some good conversations growing up.

Carlen Sims [00:59:16]:
So I can't take that away from him because we've had conversations. I just wanted more of them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:20]:
Right.

Carlen Sims [00:59:21]:
So now I'm able to have these conversations with my kids. Now I'm like, way more open. Like, let's talk about how you feel. I know you're just five. Doesn't matter. Let's just talk about it, you know? So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:35]:
Yeah. Normalizing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [00:59:38]:
Normalizing that. You can come and talk to me about anything. So.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:43]:
Yeah, that was good. Yeah. Thank you, Carlen. Yeah. Appreciate the time.

Carlen Sims [00:59:50]:
Oh, absolutely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:51]:
Sharing some of your story with us.

Carlen Sims [00:59:54]:
Yeah. It's a good one, I like to think.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:00]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [01:00:01]:
But thank you guys for having me on. I appreciate it. Being able to kind of talk and walk down memory lane and highlights and not so highlights.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for all the work you do to help people too.

Carlen Sims [01:00:16]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:00:16]:
Thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:17]:
Yeah, yeah. I've heard your name several times this last year from students, so. Yeah. And the impact you've had on them. So thank you for being present for them.

Carlen Sims [01:00:30]:
Oh, I appreciate it.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:31]:
Yeah.

Carlen Sims [01:00:32]:
Hopefully make good market.

Walker Bird [01:00:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:35]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Walker Bird [01:00:36]:
Great things to come.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:37]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlen Sims [01:00:38]:
Absolutely.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:39]:
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.