"I Said That?" Breaking the Habit of Negative Self-Talk
Theresa Hubbard and Walker Bird
"She called herself stupid. And I was like, what? I mean, it's not even a word I would begin to associate with my mom." Theresa Hubbard and Walker Bird explore the unconscious habit of calling ourselves names and how becoming aware of our internal dialogue is the first step toward self-compassion and personal freedom.
Episode Highlights
[00:04:39] Theresa's awakening to negative self-talk - "It was not something that I had an awareness of until 2006 when my mom came and spent time with me... and she called herself stupid"
[00:07:52] Walker's pattern recognition - "It's usually curse words and usually comes in threes... it's typically thinking about some past event, and I'll say, 'What an effing dumbass'"
[00:11:53] The powerful "Who Said That?" retreat exercise - "We had them invite in all of those people into the middle of the circle... and then they would start saying those voices"
[00:16:13] The challenge of releasing critical voices - "Somehow there was some part of them that felt like, I have to keep that voice that shames me around in some way, thinking that it'll keep me in line"
[00:18:21] Mirror work for self-compassion - "Looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, I love you, all the emotion that can come with that. When you're looking yourself in the eye and telling yourself that you love yourself"
[00:26:00] Life as an experiment - "I wonder how our life would be different if we were taught life was an experiment... would it be so hard if that was the lens that we were brought up with?"
[00:27:47] The universality of perfectionism - "The very first night I said, whoever has struggled with perfectionism, raise your hand. And everybody raised their hand"
[00:31:51] Raising awareness to new levels - "For me, often the conversations we're having are about increasing our awareness... so that we can see ourselves more clearly"
[00:35:55] Journal prompts for transformation - "How many times in the last week did I call myself something, or did I speak to myself harshly or in a way that I wouldn't speak to anybody else?"
[00:36:31] The ultimate question - "Who would I be without that story? More myself. Freer, vibrant, more joyful"
Key Takeaways
* Most of us call ourselves names without even realizing it - raising awareness is the first essential step
* We often hold onto critical voices, believing they somehow "keep us in line" when they actually limit our potential
* The question "How do you see me treat myself?" can generate powerful feedback from trusted people in your life
* Seeing life as an experiment rather than a test can significantly reduce perfectionism and self-criticism
* Intentional journaling focused on self-talk patterns creates space for transformation and release
* The physical sensation of someone's hand on your shoulder paired with critical words creates powerful awareness of what we carry
* Walker's perspective: "Before I had cancer... I just wasn't present. It's hard to say I'm grateful for the times that I've suffered, but I am because I have that perspective"
Whether you're curious about your own internal dialogue, seeking tools to cultivate self-compassion, or wanting to break free from perfectionism, this episode offers practical wisdom for speaking to yourself with greater kindness. Join Theresa and Walker as they share vulnerable insights and proven practices from their retreats and personal journeys.
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Episode Transcript
Walker Bird [00:00:04]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:32]:
Well, hello.
Walker Bird [00:00:33]:
Hello.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:33]:
How are you?
Walker Bird [00:00:34]:
I'm good.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:35]:
Good, good.
Walker Bird [00:00:36]:
We're dressed a little bit differently today. It's so formal.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:39]:
I know, I know. So we want to do a shout out. Hey, Megan.
Walker Bird [00:00:44]:
Megan.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:45]:
Adam.
Walker Bird [00:00:46]:
Congratulations. It's wedding day.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:48]:
It is wedding day. And so Meg is my niece, one of my older sisters, youngest child. And Meg has been with us from the beginning of my inner knowing.
Walker Bird [00:01:03]:
Thanks, Meg.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:04]:
Yeah, thanks.
Walker Bird [00:01:04]:
You're awesome.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:05]:
Yeah, we're really excited to see what else is to come because there's more coming. So Megan has done our branding and design and our website and just so much creative talent. And we just love you. We love you. So thank you for everything that you've done and seeing our vision and believing in us and supporting us and loving us and. Yeah. So we are very excited for today.
Walker Bird [00:01:39]:
I can't follow that up any better. I love you too. And thanks.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:45]:
Yeah. So we are working on the conversations that we wish our parents had had with us. But what Walker and I realized when we sat down to record our first one was that it was really hard. And so we're stepping back from that. Not long. The next episode we record. We'll start there. But we realized there was just more perspective we needed to gain around each one of those topics that we're going to cover.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:23]:
Because I think right now there's at least 15 different topics that people presented to us. When I made that post on social media, we got texts and emails and messenger messages and some responses on the post of different conversations. And so we're getting there. We're working on it. It's just something that Walker and I take very seriously. And so we recognized there was just more background and foundational work we needed to do before we stepped into that. So for those of you that were waiting, they're coming. We promise.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:02]:
So today we're going to talk about calling ourselves names. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:03:14]:
Just waiting.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:15]:
Just waiting.
Walker Bird [00:03:16]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:19]:
So for me, it was not something that I had an awareness of, as best I recall, until in 2006, when I almost died, my mom came and spent time with me at the house as part of my, like, recovery after I got out of the hospital. And I don't remember exactly what we were doing. I feel like we were outside and she called herself stupid. And I was like, what? I mean, it's not even a word I would begin to associate with my mom. And so I would guess that it was something that I had heard before. It was just the first time I was aware of it. And I said something to her about it, and she didn't have any awareness that she was saying it. And now it is something that I believe she has more awareness around.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:39]:
My siblings have more awareness around it, and we point it out to her when we hear her say it. The other thing that my mom calls herself is lazy. I know. Isn't it funny, right? Another word I would not ever associate with my mom. And so, you know, with that first exposure, you know, 19 years ago, it's just something that I notice and I point out, you know, when it feels like it is appropriate. I had a colleague just a few weeks ago. We were having a conversation about something that she was struggling with, and she called herself an idiot twice. And I said to her when she got done, I said, how often do you call yourself names? And she said, what are you talking about? And I said, well, you just called yourself an idiot twice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:40]:
And she said, I did. And I said, you did? She's like, I didn't know that. I was like, yeah, I don't know that. We often do know that we're calling ourselves names, but I think it happens more than we realize. And so for me, the conversation is, can we continue to increase our awareness that we do that so that we can change how we talk to ourselves? That's. That's where I'd like to start. Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:06:17]:
I wonder what you call yourself or if you stopped.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:24]:
That is a really good question. I still think I call myself fat. You know, like, maybe I don't say I'm fat, but. But that's, like, in there.
Walker Bird [00:06:41]:
I heard you once say, stupid, stupid, stupid.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:44]:
Really? Do you remember what it was about?
Walker Bird [00:06:47]:
Yeah, but I'm not gonna say.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:53]:
O.
Walker Bird [00:06:57]:
You not making it up?
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:00]:
Okay. You'll have to tell me later. Yeah. What do you hear me call myself other than that incident?
Walker Bird [00:07:14]:
I just don't think I can think of another instance, to tell you the truth, that you just. I. If you do, it's not very often out loud anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:07:33]:
I would guess internally, too, you've done a lot of work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:37]:
For the rest of our lives.
Walker Bird [00:07:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:41]:
Yeah. Do you have an awareness for yourself?
Walker Bird [00:07:45]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's usually curse words and Usually comes in threes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:51]:
Oh, really?
Walker Bird [00:07:52]:
Well, it's usually JFC something.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:57]:
Oh, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:08:01]:
So, yeah, I know my dad cursed a lot and I think that's where it comes from. I mean, I learned many on my own, I'm sure, but that's how I treat myself. Yeah. If I'm not thinking and then I spot it. But you know, what I'm interested in is your experience. You know, how it was that you got to the point where you didn't do that and maybe you never did very much. But anyway, we can talk about that. I want to get us off track, but I, I do.
Walker Bird [00:08:35]:
I did it today, as a matter of fact. I'll finish typically thinking about some past event and I'll say, what an effing dumbass, you know, or you stupid mf. And it's usually shame related, you know, I'm shaming myself.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:55]:
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Walker Bird [00:08:57]:
Yeah. I mean it's things that unless somebody got me really, really, really mad, I wouldn't say to somebody else. Yeah, the younger me might have. I don't know. I say a lot of jackass if I'm angry and driving.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:16]:
But that's other directed. Are you directing it to yourself too and other drivers?
Walker Bird [00:09:21]:
When I'm, you know, and I realize, oh, I'm angry, you know, and then I've gotten to the point where I can settle that down really quick, you know, just recognizing that's about me just because it is. Just because somebody does something that is unsafe, you know, that's usually what it is if they put me or others at risk when that comes out. But sometimes it's just because I'm mad about something else and that just comes. So, you know, and I've done a lot of work too, but it's still there.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:56]:
So do you think you. So there's you calling yourself names and then there's you calling other people names. Do you think that when you're struggling with yourself is when you're more likely to do like the jackass thing.
Walker Bird [00:10:14]:
Yeah. In the car. It's not like I do it if we're standing at the grocery store, you know that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:20]:
Oh yeah. Oh, no, I wasn't saying that.
Walker Bird [00:10:22]:
It's vehicle related, which I don't think is uncommon.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:25]:
Yeah. You know what that's about?
Walker Bird [00:10:27]:
I don't know. Maybe it's the power piece, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:31]:
Oh, like we're in your vehicle and you.
Walker Bird [00:10:33]:
We're powerful because we're in control of the. Of large. How many thousand pounds that is. You can go 100 miles an hour, all that stuff. I think that may have some bearing on it. I don't know. Maybe it's. There's a risk factor.
Walker Bird [00:10:48]:
You know, it's a little. At some level, you're just. You realize, you know, accidents, crashes happen. They just do. And so maybe that's all of that put together that makes that start to come out more often anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:05]:
Yeah. Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:11:06]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:06]:
Yeah. That's not something that I've thought about. Hmm. But I could see how if we're struggling with some type of shame reaction, that our reactions to other people would be more increased. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think about what comes to mind was at one of our retreats, and we may have talked about this on an episode.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:38]:
I don't remember, but when we did the retreat, who said that? Who said that? Right. Do you want to share about that exercise that we did? The kind of, like the psychodrama exercise?
Walker Bird [00:11:53]:
You can do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:53]:
Are you sure?
Walker Bird [00:11:54]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:54]:
Okay. Well, I was a witness. Right, Because. Because you were facilitating. And it was beautiful, you know, to witness.
Walker Bird [00:12:02]:
Thank you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:02]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:12:03]:
It was good work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:04]:
Yeah. Hard work. It makes me emotional to even think.
Walker Bird [00:12:07]:
About talking about it when we talk to people that were. That participated, the people that came.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:13]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:12:13]:
It was significant and hard.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:15]:
It was. Yeah. So that retreat was really a kind of a deep dive into how do we talk to ourselves. Right, right. And so we spent those four days exploring those different voices. And then, you know, if we could, where did those voices come from? And so there was a lot of, you know, self inquiry, you know, like a meditative type experience. And. And then I think it was.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:49]:
Must have been Saturday afternoon before the firewalk we did, or maybe Saturday morning, we went outside and, like, you know, got gathered in a circle. And you, really were people's guide in regards to choosing people to other people in the group. So, like, if you picked one person to be the person to work on their stuff, and then they would pick other people in the group to represent their voice.
Walker Bird [00:13:31]:
Right. Or the voices.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:33]:
Or their voices.
Walker Bird [00:13:34]:
The players of the voices. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:36]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:13:36]:
And I. What I did was I took their arm if they wanted. I offered because it's scary and it helps, you know, settle down. Also takes people to younger. A younger place. Exactly. So I'd walk in a circle, and then we'd walk back and we'd have a conversation about some of the voices. And then I'd have them pick who would play those voices.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:59]:
Jesus. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:00]:
So.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:01]:
And then they would have that person. They would tell that person what voice to use and what the words were and the tone and inflection and all of that. And then they would practice that voice, and it was very powerful experience. And then we had them invite in all of those people into the middle of the circle with them. And then those people would put their hand on their shoulder, like standing behind them, and then they would start saying those voices. And it would be, you know, you're so stupid, or you're not good enough or you're not smart or. I mean, it was a lot. And.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:48]:
And then the. The, like the pressure of someone's hand on their shoulder and just the. The repetitiveness of hearing that. And then the person. Really, what the exercise was, was, how long am I going to continue doing this? This is a real thing. These are real things I say to myself. These are stories that I use that keep me stuck. And will I continue to carry these stories or can I acknowledge them and release them? And so they're standing there and the people start, and then they have.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:33]:
We asked them to make a choice to remove those voices. And that would be by, like, taking someone's hand off. Like, I'm ready to let that voice go. I'm ready to let that voice go. I'm ready to let that voice go. But how hard sometimes it was for people to let one of the voices go.
Walker Bird [00:15:57]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:58]:
Like somehow there was some part of them that felt like, I have to keep that voice that shames me around in some way. Thinking that it'll keep me in line.
Walker Bird [00:16:13]:
Chords came to mind.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:15]:
Yeah. Share more.
Walker Bird [00:16:16]:
Well, just also a fear that without that, who will I be? You know, an underlying piece.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:24]:
That's just coming to mind. And that wasn't what somebody expressed, but I'm guessing that's a part of it too.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do I feel worthy to take on the new voices?
Walker Bird [00:16:35]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:36]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:16:38]:
And that's interesting, babe. You know, a nice positive follow up to that exercise would be choosing new voices and having the same experience.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:47]:
Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:49]:
So, yeah, I like it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:51]:
New retreat ideas.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:53]:
Yeah. People are like, no, it's so funny. Yeah. Right. In that. Yeah, we did do positive voices that weekend, but not in that same exercise. And it's always so powerful for people to step into that energy of those voices, even though I think it often feels like it doesn't fit or it doesn't feel true or it feels like I can't, you know, say that.
Walker Bird [00:17:32]:
The positive piece.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:33]:
Yeah, the positive piece. Right, right, right.
Walker Bird [00:17:36]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:37]:
Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:17:39]:
I just. That you've Got to try it on. And it's hard.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:43]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:17:43]:
But it's work. I mean, that's the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:17:45]:
It was easy. We could all just sit on a beach and stay there forever. Right. Never get out of our chair. Yeah, yeah. That's not life.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:56]:
No, no. I think it brings to mind that that exercise we did, the. The mirror exercise with those two women in Sedona. You know when you're looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, I love you, all the emotion that that can come with that. When you're looking yourself in the eye and telling yourself that you love yourself.
Walker Bird [00:18:21]:
Do you think you love yourself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:25]:
I think that it's a work in process, probably for the rest of my life. Their story that I'm aware of and their story that I'm still not yet aware of.
Walker Bird [00:18:39]:
Right, right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:40]:
And so I think so much better than I used to. I think I, you know, like when you were saying. I'm not sure I've heard you say things out loud, but internally, you know, as you were saying, for sure, I'm sure there are things that I'm still not aware of that I. Yeah, actually that's not hard for me to think at all of the thing of my internal dialogue that I'm aware of, that I'm still working on. Absolutely. Yeah. Really truly believing in myself. Feeling like I deserve freedom and peace and joy.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:25]:
Yeah. That everything doesn't have to be hard, that I don't have to work hard all the time to have value. Yeah. What?
Walker Bird [00:19:43]:
Yeah, I see it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:48]:
Yeah. So obviously we're very curious what other people are aware of that they call themselves. And, you know, if you could find, you know, a safe person in your life, whether it's a friend or partner or family member who could give you feedback about how you talk to yourself. This is hard work.
Walker Bird [00:20:18]:
Yeah. Well, a feedback from a positive perspective, too, because when you say those things, it's easy for me to say. Well, I know the answer to all those, but so do you. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:28]:
What are you thinking? Tell me.
Walker Bird [00:20:29]:
Just all the examples you just gave of the things that you are working through. You know, am I worthy? Do I have to work every second and so hard? I know the answer to that for you. And it's just. It's so crazy that we know it, but we don't know it. You know what I'm saying?
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:48]:
Oh, I.
Walker Bird [00:20:49]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think all we can do is keep coming back. And when you raise the mirror exercise, I was thinking, I need to do that. And we've got a Participant from our retreat. She's a. Has come to many, actually. One of our super fans. And, you know, I.
Walker Bird [00:21:10]:
I raised that exercise, and. And she. It's just like, it sticks. And so it was like. It was a gift that I gave her. I need to remind myself, too, and I know that. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:22]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:22]:
But I think I need to do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:25]:
We. Oh, gosh. Our lives ebb and flow.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:31]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:32]:
Right. I just hope I keep coming back to that shore less and less often so I can move on down, down the coast. Where the winds are calm and the skies are sunny.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:48]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:50]:
With the occasional storm. You know what I'm saying? Just not always blustery. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:00]:
You know, I think every once in a while. Not often, but every once in a while I have a client will say, I wish that I had. I didn't understand so much. It's so much harder. Right.
Walker Bird [00:22:27]:
Periods of time. It is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:30]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:32]:
Yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:35]:
And it's not, like, completely true. It's just. No, they're sharing their. Like, this is hard work to be aware of yourself and the impact that you have on people. The impact you have on yourself.
Walker Bird [00:22:52]:
Yes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:54]:
The energy that it takes to change those ways that we engage with ourselves.
Walker Bird [00:23:03]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:04]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:06]:
I understand completely. And I feel that way sometimes myself still. But I also know. And thank goodness I have that understanding that it's part of why I'm here, to have that experience. So I learn, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:25]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:28]:
And I remember before.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:31]:
What?
Walker Bird [00:23:32]:
Well, before I had cancer. That's how I live my life. And it just. It was. And I just wasn't here.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:43]:
No. You mean present.
Walker Bird [00:23:44]:
Present. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:46]:
And I just. It's, you know, autopilot, just kind of drifting through. And I think. It's hard to say I'm grateful for the times that I've suffered, but I am, because I have that perspective. And I think that for me, that leads to more meaning for why we're here, you know, for my life, anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:16]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:16]:
What are you thinking when you say that?
Walker Bird [00:24:18]:
I. I think when you have that perspective that suffering teaches me, working through calling myself names or haven't been called names and then doing it myself for years or decades, you know, or a lifetime. But working through that is. It's painful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:39]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:40]:
Right. And it's easier to just stuff it away. Well. But realizing that that process is teaching.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:50]:
Me.
Walker Bird [00:24:52]:
Gives my life more meaning than. I just had a bad experience, so I struggled. I never considered it or stepped into the present to look at it, to make choices. I just went through life and then it was over what did I learn if I didn't try to get perspective? But getting perspective, you got to pay the toll. And it's. I don't mean in a punishment kind of a way, but it. You have to put in the effort.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:25]:
Yeah. It's so interesting. It makes me think about a conversation that we had yesterday. We did a journey into the gray event yesterday, and I wish I could remember what the person said. And I said, I wonder how our life would be different if we were taught life was an experiment. You know, would it be so hard if that was the lens that we were brought up with from. From little. Right, right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:00]:
Because instead of getting to a place where it's just like, ugh, okay, how do I learn from these experiences? As opposed to. I'm going to learn from these experiences. Of course I am. Right.
Walker Bird [00:26:17]:
Feels like freedom to me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:19]:
You know, if you'd had that put in from the very beginning, taught that you came here to practice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking, you know, in sharing that if from the beginning we were taught that life was an experiment, I really do believe that our life would be less painful, our expectations would be more full of curiosity as opposed to certainty.
Walker Bird [00:27:09]:
Believing that life is an experiment would also, I think, alleviate a lot of the perfectionism that we so many people carry.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:19]:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I just think about it, not the retreat a few weeks ago, but the one in November where the very first night I said, whoever has struggles with perfectionism, raise your hand. And everybody raised their hand. And everybody's looking around like, what? Everybody here with perfectionism? Yes. Yeah. Fascinating.
Walker Bird [00:27:47]:
It is. I mean, it just. Part of me wonders if you taught the opposite, if it would stick or if that's just part of our human nature.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:59]:
I don't know that it's part of our human nature. I mean, I think a certain amount of certainty is Right. But if we're conditioned. Right.
Walker Bird [00:28:08]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:09]:
That this is an experiment. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like that was something that I allowed my kids a lot of leeway around, was experimenting whether. I know. I've told those stories, you know, Xander with the massage. The special massage product that she made out of flour and water and toothpaste and. Yeah. Cameron taking electronics apart that we got that he could take apart after he took apart something that I didn't want him to take apart.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:52]:
Right. But allowing that room, I didn't think about it as creating perspective. I really was them. I really was just wanting them to find what was interesting to them. But there probably was a perspective piece that they were learning, too, by being able to experiment. But I think I got to experiment, too. I'm not saying that it was always handled very well. I mean, if I, you know, like when I flushed a washcloth down the toilet when we had a septic system, because I was trying to figure out how to wash out a diaper, you know, because I would watch my mom do that, you know, like, she'd, like, hold the.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:42]:
The cloth diaper in the toilet to get most of it off. Right. And then she would wash it. And that's what I was trying to do. I'm very. I have a very clear memory of that. And then the washcloth going shut.
Walker Bird [00:29:59]:
Freak out.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:00]:
I can absolutely guarantee that he did freak out. Yeah. Subjects systems are, you know, sensitive, especially back then. I'm sure was worse. Yeah. 50 years ago. Sure. What?
Walker Bird [00:30:16]:
Just messing with you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:19]:
You.
Walker Bird [00:30:20]:
I thought you were 40.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:23]:
You.
Walker Bird [00:30:23]:
Well, you look forward a.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:25]:
Thanks, babe.
Walker Bird [00:30:27]:
Thank you. Smooth.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:30]:
You're. You.
Walker Bird [00:30:34]:
It's your fancy outfit.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:36]:
It is, I'm sure. Ah, so interesting. Yeah. So with this conversation, again, really just encouraging people that are listening, you know, I've talked about this for sure, but about. This isn't a real thing other than in my mind and description. But, you know, when I talk about consciousness, I talk about, you know, 27 levels or layers of consciousness. And so, you know, for me, often the conversations we're having are about increasing our awareness. So whatever that part of us that that level of consciousness that it's resting in can increase so that we have a better ability to see it and recognize it and grab a hold of it when it does kind of like flash through our mind, you know, that little awareness that happens so that we can, you know, examine it more intentionally so that we can see ourselves more clearly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:31:51]:
Because I think often we can know things but we didn't know it. And so I feel like we're trying to go to a place where we can raise it high enough in our consciousness that we can know it, you know, because how often do we say to ourselves, oh, I knew that. Yeah, right. But not enough. We didn't know it enough. Right. I mean, there are plenty of things that I can think of where I had some level of awareness, but not enough for me to truly pause and to consider the choice that I was making, that they were choices that would have been more, I think, probably rationalized. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:32:39]:
Or just disregarded because I, for whatever reason, wasn't ready to see or couldn't allow myself to see.
Walker Bird [00:32:49]:
Yeah. I think. I think the journal you know, journaling is such an important piece of this, and I'm still working on consistency with it. It's, you know, you're really facing it when you start to put it down on paper, but it focus. It helps focus you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:07]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:33:07]:
And there's just something about the old school pen on paper that, for me, lets those words come out and maybe the experience that they're tied to, you know, and now, you know, I use it. Why I use it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:24]:
Yeah. So I can see that.
Walker Bird [00:33:27]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:27]:
The journaling piece, bringing it higher up.
Walker Bird [00:33:33]:
Yeah. I did my experience just sitting and thinking about it. It's easy to run, you know, and it's easy to run when you start the journaling piece until you stick with it. Right. Well, worried about whatever else besides this, but I do think it's a useful tool.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:50]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:33:50]:
Without a doubt. For this type of work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:54]:
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I know quite a few people that have found journaling helpful. It's just, what are we journaling? Are we using it to beat ourself up later, or are we using it to keep things in our awareness so that we can choose healthier choices?
Walker Bird [00:34:24]:
I think with intention, you know, you may be beating yourself up, but it, to me, if it's intentional, it's a release, focus, tool.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:34]:
Right, sure. It. It makes me think about the. The difference between, like a physical release. You know, we talk about that. Right. It's. You can journal and it not be intentional.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:46]:
You can journal because you are supposed to. Because that's a healthy thing. Right. Just because you journal doesn't mean that growth comes from it. I've had people over the years who are like, journaling is not helpful for me, and so is it intentional? Why am I doing this? What am I hoping to learn and understand? Right. Or do I do it in such a way to reinforce my struggle? Which we can do with the physical release, too. We can become very hypnotic, and then we're not releasing anything. We're just reinforcing something.
Walker Bird [00:35:25]:
Sure, man.
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:26]:
Our intention is so important, isn't.
Walker Bird [00:35:29]:
Is?
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:30]:
Yeah. So even thinking about that, if people were going to create an intention for journaling around, do they call themselves names? What comes to mind for you? Something that they could ask themselves.
Walker Bird [00:35:55]:
How many times in the last week did I call myself something or did I speak to myself harshly or in a way that I wouldn't speak to anybody else? You could even say the last 48 hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:08]:
Sure.
Walker Bird [00:36:09]:
And then I would make the list, you know, what did I say? And where did that come from?
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:17]:
As best as I'm aware, as best I know. Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:36:24]:
And then I think the positive aspect is, what would I be like if I was able to put that down?
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:31]:
Who would I be without that story? Oh, yeah, yeah. Who would I be without that story? More myself.
Walker Bird [00:36:46]:
Freer, vibrant. Yeah. More joyful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:53]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:36:54]:
All those things.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:56]:
Agreed. Well, we hope you all step into this work of exploring that and I would say even consider asking, like we talked about earlier, someone that you feel like would give you honest feedback. Because sometimes we want feedback, but we want feedback we want. We don't want feedback we don't want. And so we ask people to give us feedback who are just going to give us the feedback we want, want. And then there are people who are. Who want to help us see ourselves more clearly.
Walker Bird [00:37:48]:
I think part of it is in the asking, too. What do you think of me is a whole lot different than how do you see me treat myself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:37:58]:
Absolutely.
Walker Bird [00:37:59]:
What have you heard me call myself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:02]:
Yes.
Walker Bird [00:38:03]:
Would generate a completely different response from somebody who has the ability to observe you and be direct.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:11]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:38:11]:
But if you just asked, what do you think of me? Or how do you experience me? That's powerful in itself. How do you experience me? Because it can be teaching.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:19]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:38:20]:
I think for this, if you put it in that other perspective, you'll get a lot more traction.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:27]:
Yeah. Hmm. Powerful exercise it is.
Walker Bird [00:38:35]:
Thanks, babe. I love you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:36]:
Yeah, I love you too. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:32]:
Well, hello.
Walker Bird [00:00:33]:
Hello.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:33]:
How are you?
Walker Bird [00:00:34]:
I'm good.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:35]:
Good, good.
Walker Bird [00:00:36]:
We're dressed a little bit differently today. It's so formal.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:39]:
I know, I know. So we want to do a shout out. Hey, Megan.
Walker Bird [00:00:44]:
Megan.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:45]:
Adam.
Walker Bird [00:00:46]:
Congratulations. It's wedding day.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:48]:
It is wedding day. And so Meg is my niece, one of my older sisters, youngest child. And Meg has been with us from the beginning of my inner knowing.
Walker Bird [00:01:03]:
Thanks, Meg.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:04]:
Yeah, thanks.
Walker Bird [00:01:04]:
You're awesome.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:05]:
Yeah, we're really excited to see what else is to come because there's more coming. So Megan has done our branding and design and our website and just so much creative talent. And we just love you. We love you. So thank you for everything that you've done and seeing our vision and believing in us and supporting us and loving us and. Yeah. So we are very excited for today.
Walker Bird [00:01:39]:
I can't follow that up any better. I love you too. And thanks.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:45]:
Yeah. So we are working on the conversations that we wish our parents had had with us. But what Walker and I realized when we sat down to record our first one was that it was really hard. And so we're stepping back from that. Not long. The next episode we record. We'll start there. But we realized there was just more perspective we needed to gain around each one of those topics that we're going to cover.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:23]:
Because I think right now there's at least 15 different topics that people presented to us. When I made that post on social media, we got texts and emails and messenger messages and some responses on the post of different conversations. And so we're getting there. We're working on it. It's just something that Walker and I take very seriously. And so we recognized there was just more background and foundational work we needed to do before we stepped into that. So for those of you that were waiting, they're coming. We promise.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:02]:
So today we're going to talk about calling ourselves names. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:03:14]:
Just waiting.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:15]:
Just waiting.
Walker Bird [00:03:16]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:19]:
So for me, it was not something that I had an awareness of, as best I recall, until in 2006, when I almost died, my mom came and spent time with me at the house as part of my, like, recovery after I got out of the hospital. And I don't remember exactly what we were doing. I feel like we were outside and she called herself stupid. And I was like, what? I mean, it's not even a word I would begin to associate with my mom. And so I would guess that it was something that I had heard before. It was just the first time I was aware of it. And I said something to her about it, and she didn't have any awareness that she was saying it. And now it is something that I believe she has more awareness around.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:39]:
My siblings have more awareness around it, and we point it out to her when we hear her say it. The other thing that my mom calls herself is lazy. I know. Isn't it funny, right? Another word I would not ever associate with my mom. And so, you know, with that first exposure, you know, 19 years ago, it's just something that I notice and I point out, you know, when it feels like it is appropriate. I had a colleague just a few weeks ago. We were having a conversation about something that she was struggling with, and she called herself an idiot twice. And I said to her when she got done, I said, how often do you call yourself names? And she said, what are you talking about? And I said, well, you just called yourself an idiot twice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:40]:
And she said, I did. And I said, you did? She's like, I didn't know that. I was like, yeah, I don't know that. We often do know that we're calling ourselves names, but I think it happens more than we realize. And so for me, the conversation is, can we continue to increase our awareness that we do that so that we can change how we talk to ourselves? That's. That's where I'd like to start. Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:06:17]:
I wonder what you call yourself or if you stopped.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:24]:
That is a really good question. I still think I call myself fat. You know, like, maybe I don't say I'm fat, but. But that's, like, in there.
Walker Bird [00:06:41]:
I heard you once say, stupid, stupid, stupid.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:44]:
Really? Do you remember what it was about?
Walker Bird [00:06:47]:
Yeah, but I'm not gonna say.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:53]:
O.
Walker Bird [00:06:57]:
You not making it up?
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:00]:
Okay. You'll have to tell me later. Yeah. What do you hear me call myself other than that incident?
Walker Bird [00:07:14]:
I just don't think I can think of another instance, to tell you the truth, that you just. I. If you do, it's not very often out loud anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:07:33]:
I would guess internally, too, you've done a lot of work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:37]:
For the rest of our lives.
Walker Bird [00:07:39]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:41]:
Yeah. Do you have an awareness for yourself?
Walker Bird [00:07:45]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's usually curse words and Usually comes in threes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:51]:
Oh, really?
Walker Bird [00:07:52]:
Well, it's usually JFC something.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:57]:
Oh, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:08:01]:
So, yeah, I know my dad cursed a lot and I think that's where it comes from. I mean, I learned many on my own, I'm sure, but that's how I treat myself. Yeah. If I'm not thinking and then I spot it. But you know, what I'm interested in is your experience. You know, how it was that you got to the point where you didn't do that and maybe you never did very much. But anyway, we can talk about that. I want to get us off track, but I, I do.
Walker Bird [00:08:35]:
I did it today, as a matter of fact. I'll finish typically thinking about some past event and I'll say, what an effing dumbass, you know, or you stupid mf. And it's usually shame related, you know, I'm shaming myself.
Theresa Hubbard [00:08:55]:
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Walker Bird [00:08:57]:
Yeah. I mean it's things that unless somebody got me really, really, really mad, I wouldn't say to somebody else. Yeah, the younger me might have. I don't know. I say a lot of jackass if I'm angry and driving.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:16]:
But that's other directed. Are you directing it to yourself too and other drivers?
Walker Bird [00:09:21]:
When I'm, you know, and I realize, oh, I'm angry, you know, and then I've gotten to the point where I can settle that down really quick, you know, just recognizing that's about me just because it is. Just because somebody does something that is unsafe, you know, that's usually what it is if they put me or others at risk when that comes out. But sometimes it's just because I'm mad about something else and that just comes. So, you know, and I've done a lot of work too, but it's still there.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:56]:
So do you think you. So there's you calling yourself names and then there's you calling other people names. Do you think that when you're struggling with yourself is when you're more likely to do like the jackass thing.
Walker Bird [00:10:14]:
Yeah. In the car. It's not like I do it if we're standing at the grocery store, you know that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:20]:
Oh yeah. Oh, no, I wasn't saying that.
Walker Bird [00:10:22]:
It's vehicle related, which I don't think is uncommon.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:25]:
Yeah. You know what that's about?
Walker Bird [00:10:27]:
I don't know. Maybe it's the power piece, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:10:31]:
Oh, like we're in your vehicle and you.
Walker Bird [00:10:33]:
We're powerful because we're in control of the. Of large. How many thousand pounds that is. You can go 100 miles an hour, all that stuff. I think that may have some bearing on it. I don't know. Maybe it's. There's a risk factor.
Walker Bird [00:10:48]:
You know, it's a little. At some level, you're just. You realize, you know, accidents, crashes happen. They just do. And so maybe that's all of that put together that makes that start to come out more often anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:05]:
Yeah. Interesting.
Walker Bird [00:11:06]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:06]:
Yeah. That's not something that I've thought about. Hmm. But I could see how if we're struggling with some type of shame reaction, that our reactions to other people would be more increased. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think about what comes to mind was at one of our retreats, and we may have talked about this on an episode.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:38]:
I don't remember, but when we did the retreat, who said that? Who said that? Right. Do you want to share about that exercise that we did? The kind of, like the psychodrama exercise?
Walker Bird [00:11:53]:
You can do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:53]:
Are you sure?
Walker Bird [00:11:54]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:54]:
Okay. Well, I was a witness. Right, Because. Because you were facilitating. And it was beautiful, you know, to witness.
Walker Bird [00:12:02]:
Thank you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:02]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:12:03]:
It was good work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:04]:
Yeah. Hard work. It makes me emotional to even think.
Walker Bird [00:12:07]:
About talking about it when we talk to people that were. That participated, the people that came.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:13]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:12:13]:
It was significant and hard.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:15]:
It was. Yeah. So that retreat was really a kind of a deep dive into how do we talk to ourselves. Right, right. And so we spent those four days exploring those different voices. And then, you know, if we could, where did those voices come from? And so there was a lot of, you know, self inquiry, you know, like a meditative type experience. And. And then I think it was.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:49]:
Must have been Saturday afternoon before the firewalk we did, or maybe Saturday morning, we went outside and, like, you know, got gathered in a circle. And you, really were people's guide in regards to choosing people to other people in the group. So, like, if you picked one person to be the person to work on their stuff, and then they would pick other people in the group to represent their voice.
Walker Bird [00:13:31]:
Right. Or the voices.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:33]:
Or their voices.
Walker Bird [00:13:34]:
The players of the voices. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:36]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:13:36]:
And I. What I did was I took their arm if they wanted. I offered because it's scary and it helps, you know, settle down. Also takes people to younger. A younger place. Exactly. So I'd walk in a circle, and then we'd walk back and we'd have a conversation about some of the voices. And then I'd have them pick who would play those voices.
Theresa Hubbard [00:13:59]:
Jesus. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:14:00]:
So.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:01]:
And then they would have that person. They would tell that person what voice to use and what the words were and the tone and inflection and all of that. And then they would practice that voice, and it was very powerful experience. And then we had them invite in all of those people into the middle of the circle with them. And then those people would put their hand on their shoulder, like standing behind them, and then they would start saying those voices. And it would be, you know, you're so stupid, or you're not good enough or you're not smart or. I mean, it was a lot. And.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:48]:
And then the. The, like the pressure of someone's hand on their shoulder and just the. The repetitiveness of hearing that. And then the person. Really, what the exercise was, was, how long am I going to continue doing this? This is a real thing. These are real things I say to myself. These are stories that I use that keep me stuck. And will I continue to carry these stories or can I acknowledge them and release them? And so they're standing there and the people start, and then they have.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:33]:
We asked them to make a choice to remove those voices. And that would be by, like, taking someone's hand off. Like, I'm ready to let that voice go. I'm ready to let that voice go. I'm ready to let that voice go. But how hard sometimes it was for people to let one of the voices go.
Walker Bird [00:15:57]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:58]:
Like somehow there was some part of them that felt like, I have to keep that voice that shames me around in some way. Thinking that it'll keep me in line.
Walker Bird [00:16:13]:
Chords came to mind.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:15]:
Yeah. Share more.
Walker Bird [00:16:16]:
Well, just also a fear that without that, who will I be? You know, an underlying piece.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:24]:
That's just coming to mind. And that wasn't what somebody expressed, but I'm guessing that's a part of it too.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do I feel worthy to take on the new voices?
Walker Bird [00:16:35]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:36]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:16:38]:
And that's interesting, babe. You know, a nice positive follow up to that exercise would be choosing new voices and having the same experience.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:47]:
Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:49]:
So, yeah, I like it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:16:51]:
New retreat ideas.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:53]:
Yeah. People are like, no, it's so funny. Yeah. Right. In that. Yeah, we did do positive voices that weekend, but not in that same exercise. And it's always so powerful for people to step into that energy of those voices, even though I think it often feels like it doesn't fit or it doesn't feel true or it feels like I can't, you know, say that.
Walker Bird [00:17:32]:
The positive piece.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:33]:
Yeah, the positive piece. Right, right, right.
Walker Bird [00:17:36]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:37]:
Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:17:39]:
I just. That you've Got to try it on. And it's hard.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:43]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:17:43]:
But it's work. I mean, that's the point.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:17:45]:
It was easy. We could all just sit on a beach and stay there forever. Right. Never get out of our chair. Yeah, yeah. That's not life.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:56]:
No, no. I think it brings to mind that that exercise we did, the. The mirror exercise with those two women in Sedona. You know when you're looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, I love you, all the emotion that that can come with that. When you're looking yourself in the eye and telling yourself that you love yourself.
Walker Bird [00:18:21]:
Do you think you love yourself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:25]:
I think that it's a work in process, probably for the rest of my life. Their story that I'm aware of and their story that I'm still not yet aware of.
Walker Bird [00:18:39]:
Right, right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:40]:
And so I think so much better than I used to. I think I, you know, like when you were saying. I'm not sure I've heard you say things out loud, but internally, you know, as you were saying, for sure, I'm sure there are things that I'm still not aware of that I. Yeah, actually that's not hard for me to think at all of the thing of my internal dialogue that I'm aware of, that I'm still working on. Absolutely. Yeah. Really truly believing in myself. Feeling like I deserve freedom and peace and joy.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:25]:
Yeah. That everything doesn't have to be hard, that I don't have to work hard all the time to have value. Yeah. What?
Walker Bird [00:19:43]:
Yeah, I see it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:48]:
Yeah. So obviously we're very curious what other people are aware of that they call themselves. And, you know, if you could find, you know, a safe person in your life, whether it's a friend or partner or family member who could give you feedback about how you talk to yourself. This is hard work.
Walker Bird [00:20:18]:
Yeah. Well, a feedback from a positive perspective, too, because when you say those things, it's easy for me to say. Well, I know the answer to all those, but so do you. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:28]:
What are you thinking? Tell me.
Walker Bird [00:20:29]:
Just all the examples you just gave of the things that you are working through. You know, am I worthy? Do I have to work every second and so hard? I know the answer to that for you. And it's just. It's so crazy that we know it, but we don't know it. You know what I'm saying?
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:48]:
Oh, I.
Walker Bird [00:20:49]:
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think all we can do is keep coming back. And when you raise the mirror exercise, I was thinking, I need to do that. And we've got a Participant from our retreat. She's a. Has come to many, actually. One of our super fans. And, you know, I.
Walker Bird [00:21:10]:
I raised that exercise, and. And she. It's just like, it sticks. And so it was like. It was a gift that I gave her. I need to remind myself, too, and I know that. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:22]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:22]:
But I think I need to do it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:25]:
We. Oh, gosh. Our lives ebb and flow.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:31]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:32]:
Right. I just hope I keep coming back to that shore less and less often so I can move on down, down the coast. Where the winds are calm and the skies are sunny.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:48]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:50]:
With the occasional storm. You know what I'm saying? Just not always blustery. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:00]:
You know, I think every once in a while. Not often, but every once in a while I have a client will say, I wish that I had. I didn't understand so much. It's so much harder. Right.
Walker Bird [00:22:27]:
Periods of time. It is.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:30]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:32]:
Yeah, yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:35]:
And it's not, like, completely true. It's just. No, they're sharing their. Like, this is hard work to be aware of yourself and the impact that you have on people. The impact you have on yourself.
Walker Bird [00:22:52]:
Yes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:54]:
The energy that it takes to change those ways that we engage with ourselves.
Walker Bird [00:23:03]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:04]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:06]:
I understand completely. And I feel that way sometimes myself still. But I also know. And thank goodness I have that understanding that it's part of why I'm here, to have that experience. So I learn, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:25]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:28]:
And I remember before.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:31]:
What?
Walker Bird [00:23:32]:
Well, before I had cancer. That's how I live my life. And it just. It was. And I just wasn't here.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:43]:
No. You mean present.
Walker Bird [00:23:44]:
Present. Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:45]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:23:46]:
And I just. It's, you know, autopilot, just kind of drifting through. And I think. It's hard to say I'm grateful for the times that I've suffered, but I am, because I have that perspective. And I think that for me, that leads to more meaning for why we're here, you know, for my life, anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:16]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:16]:
What are you thinking when you say that?
Walker Bird [00:24:18]:
I. I think when you have that perspective that suffering teaches me, working through calling myself names or haven't been called names and then doing it myself for years or decades, you know, or a lifetime. But working through that is. It's painful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:39]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:40]:
Right. And it's easier to just stuff it away. Well. But realizing that that process is teaching.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:50]:
Me.
Walker Bird [00:24:52]:
Gives my life more meaning than. I just had a bad experience, so I struggled. I never considered it or stepped into the present to look at it, to make choices. I just went through life and then it was over what did I learn if I didn't try to get perspective? But getting perspective, you got to pay the toll. And it's. I don't mean in a punishment kind of a way, but it. You have to put in the effort.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:25]:
Yeah. It's so interesting. It makes me think about a conversation that we had yesterday. We did a journey into the gray event yesterday, and I wish I could remember what the person said. And I said, I wonder how our life would be different if we were taught life was an experiment. You know, would it be so hard if that was the lens that we were brought up with from. From little. Right, right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:00]:
Because instead of getting to a place where it's just like, ugh, okay, how do I learn from these experiences? As opposed to. I'm going to learn from these experiences. Of course I am. Right.
Walker Bird [00:26:17]:
Feels like freedom to me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:19]:
You know, if you'd had that put in from the very beginning, taught that you came here to practice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking, you know, in sharing that if from the beginning we were taught that life was an experiment, I really do believe that our life would be less painful, our expectations would be more full of curiosity as opposed to certainty.
Walker Bird [00:27:09]:
Believing that life is an experiment would also, I think, alleviate a lot of the perfectionism that we so many people carry.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:19]:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I just think about it, not the retreat a few weeks ago, but the one in November where the very first night I said, whoever has struggles with perfectionism, raise your hand. And everybody raised their hand. And everybody's looking around like, what? Everybody here with perfectionism? Yes. Yeah. Fascinating.
Walker Bird [00:27:47]:
It is. I mean, it just. Part of me wonders if you taught the opposite, if it would stick or if that's just part of our human nature.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:59]:
I don't know that it's part of our human nature. I mean, I think a certain amount of certainty is Right. But if we're conditioned. Right.
Walker Bird [00:28:08]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:09]:
That this is an experiment. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like that was something that I allowed my kids a lot of leeway around, was experimenting whether. I know. I've told those stories, you know, Xander with the massage. The special massage product that she made out of flour and water and toothpaste and. Yeah. Cameron taking electronics apart that we got that he could take apart after he took apart something that I didn't want him to take apart.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:52]:
Right. But allowing that room, I didn't think about it as creating perspective. I really was them. I really was just wanting them to find what was interesting to them. But there probably was a perspective piece that they were learning, too, by being able to experiment. But I think I got to experiment, too. I'm not saying that it was always handled very well. I mean, if I, you know, like when I flushed a washcloth down the toilet when we had a septic system, because I was trying to figure out how to wash out a diaper, you know, because I would watch my mom do that, you know, like, she'd, like, hold the.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:42]:
The cloth diaper in the toilet to get most of it off. Right. And then she would wash it. And that's what I was trying to do. I'm very. I have a very clear memory of that. And then the washcloth going shut.
Walker Bird [00:29:59]:
Freak out.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:00]:
I can absolutely guarantee that he did freak out. Yeah. Subjects systems are, you know, sensitive, especially back then. I'm sure was worse. Yeah. 50 years ago. Sure. What?
Walker Bird [00:30:16]:
Just messing with you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:19]:
You.
Walker Bird [00:30:20]:
I thought you were 40.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:23]:
You.
Walker Bird [00:30:23]:
Well, you look forward a.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:25]:
Thanks, babe.
Walker Bird [00:30:27]:
Thank you. Smooth.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:30]:
You're. You.
Walker Bird [00:30:34]:
It's your fancy outfit.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:36]:
It is, I'm sure. Ah, so interesting. Yeah. So with this conversation, again, really just encouraging people that are listening, you know, I've talked about this for sure, but about. This isn't a real thing other than in my mind and description. But, you know, when I talk about consciousness, I talk about, you know, 27 levels or layers of consciousness. And so, you know, for me, often the conversations we're having are about increasing our awareness. So whatever that part of us that that level of consciousness that it's resting in can increase so that we have a better ability to see it and recognize it and grab a hold of it when it does kind of like flash through our mind, you know, that little awareness that happens so that we can, you know, examine it more intentionally so that we can see ourselves more clearly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:31:51]:
Because I think often we can know things but we didn't know it. And so I feel like we're trying to go to a place where we can raise it high enough in our consciousness that we can know it, you know, because how often do we say to ourselves, oh, I knew that. Yeah, right. But not enough. We didn't know it enough. Right. I mean, there are plenty of things that I can think of where I had some level of awareness, but not enough for me to truly pause and to consider the choice that I was making, that they were choices that would have been more, I think, probably rationalized. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:32:39]:
Or just disregarded because I, for whatever reason, wasn't ready to see or couldn't allow myself to see.
Walker Bird [00:32:49]:
Yeah. I think. I think the journal you know, journaling is such an important piece of this, and I'm still working on consistency with it. It's, you know, you're really facing it when you start to put it down on paper, but it focus. It helps focus you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:07]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:33:07]:
And there's just something about the old school pen on paper that, for me, lets those words come out and maybe the experience that they're tied to, you know, and now, you know, I use it. Why I use it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:24]:
Yeah. So I can see that.
Walker Bird [00:33:27]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:27]:
The journaling piece, bringing it higher up.
Walker Bird [00:33:33]:
Yeah. I did my experience just sitting and thinking about it. It's easy to run, you know, and it's easy to run when you start the journaling piece until you stick with it. Right. Well, worried about whatever else besides this, but I do think it's a useful tool.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:50]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:33:50]:
Without a doubt. For this type of work.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:54]:
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I know quite a few people that have found journaling helpful. It's just, what are we journaling? Are we using it to beat ourself up later, or are we using it to keep things in our awareness so that we can choose healthier choices?
Walker Bird [00:34:24]:
I think with intention, you know, you may be beating yourself up, but it, to me, if it's intentional, it's a release, focus, tool.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:34]:
Right, sure. It. It makes me think about the. The difference between, like a physical release. You know, we talk about that. Right. It's. You can journal and it not be intentional.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:46]:
You can journal because you are supposed to. Because that's a healthy thing. Right. Just because you journal doesn't mean that growth comes from it. I've had people over the years who are like, journaling is not helpful for me, and so is it intentional? Why am I doing this? What am I hoping to learn and understand? Right. Or do I do it in such a way to reinforce my struggle? Which we can do with the physical release, too. We can become very hypnotic, and then we're not releasing anything. We're just reinforcing something.
Walker Bird [00:35:25]:
Sure, man.
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:26]:
Our intention is so important, isn't.
Walker Bird [00:35:29]:
Is?
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:30]:
Yeah. So even thinking about that, if people were going to create an intention for journaling around, do they call themselves names? What comes to mind for you? Something that they could ask themselves.
Walker Bird [00:35:55]:
How many times in the last week did I call myself something or did I speak to myself harshly or in a way that I wouldn't speak to anybody else? You could even say the last 48 hours.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:08]:
Sure.
Walker Bird [00:36:09]:
And then I would make the list, you know, what did I say? And where did that come from?
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:17]:
As best as I'm aware, as best I know. Yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:36:24]:
And then I think the positive aspect is, what would I be like if I was able to put that down?
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:31]:
Who would I be without that story? Oh, yeah, yeah. Who would I be without that story? More myself.
Walker Bird [00:36:46]:
Freer, vibrant. Yeah. More joyful.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:53]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:36:54]:
All those things.
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:56]:
Agreed. Well, we hope you all step into this work of exploring that and I would say even consider asking, like we talked about earlier, someone that you feel like would give you honest feedback. Because sometimes we want feedback, but we want feedback we want. We don't want feedback we don't want. And so we ask people to give us feedback who are just going to give us the feedback we want, want. And then there are people who are. Who want to help us see ourselves more clearly.
Walker Bird [00:37:48]:
I think part of it is in the asking, too. What do you think of me is a whole lot different than how do you see me treat myself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:37:58]:
Absolutely.
Walker Bird [00:37:59]:
What have you heard me call myself?
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:02]:
Yes.
Walker Bird [00:38:03]:
Would generate a completely different response from somebody who has the ability to observe you and be direct.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:11]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:38:11]:
But if you just asked, what do you think of me? Or how do you experience me? That's powerful in itself. How do you experience me? Because it can be teaching.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:19]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:38:20]:
I think for this, if you put it in that other perspective, you'll get a lot more traction.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:27]:
Yeah. Hmm. Powerful exercise it is.
Walker Bird [00:38:35]:
Thanks, babe. I love you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:36]:
Yeah, I love you too. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.