How to Build Confidence at Work & Strengthen Workplace Relationships

Walker Bird [00:00:00]:
We are so excited about sharing with you our new retreat. Becoming Unshakeable: From Self-Doubt to Daring

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:08]:
Yeah, we love doing retreats. It's a lot of fun. We really enjoy that group in person process. Everything that Walker and I create is something that we do with a lot of intention. Every retreat we do is a new retreat. We don't repeat retreats. And so it's always an adventure for us in creating the next one based off where he and I are in our own personal growth journey.

Walker Bird [00:00:36]:
Yeah, we look forward to holding space for you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:38]:
Yeah. We hope you'll consider joining us.

Walker Bird [00:00:45]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:13]:
Well, hello. Hi. How are you?

Walker Bird [00:01:17]:
I'm good, yeah. I'm a little stressed out. I'm just, you know, came just got here from work and just a lot of things going on, but happy to be here. I love you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:29]:
I love you too. It's good to see you.

Walker Bird [00:01:31]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:34]:
So, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:01:37]:
I wanted to visit with you today about relationships in the workplace and how to gain confidence at work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:49]:
Sure. Wow. Where to start? I'll start with relationships in the workplace. I mean, I think about that's as it is probably for all of us that have a job outside the home, a significant part of our life, we can spend more time with the people we work with than the people that we live with. And so I think they can be really supportive kind of world expanding. It can be really difficult, very unhealthy. So I think my first job where I got paid a paycheck was when I was 13 and I worked with my dad every summer at his work. And a lot of the time I was by myself working on projects, painting or mowing or scraping bird poop off statues or whatever needed to be done.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:09]:
But it was at a private school and there were nuns that worked there, they ran the school and worked there. So I guess I would have called them my co workers because there was nobody else there my age. So it was my dad and them. And they were kind, nurturing, funny, quirky, lovely people. They really were. The one I remember most was Sister Geraldine and she was, I don't know, 4 foot 8, probably just tiny. But she was really engaging and curious and so it was a nice relationship. She was supportive she would.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:03]:
If it was really, really hot, she'd bring me a drink and a banana potassium.

Walker Bird [00:04:11]:
Make sure you didn't get cramped.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:13]:
Yeah, so. So that was really nice. Loving. They were people who had traveled the world, and they were people who were willing to share stories. And when I got married and the. The sisters sold the school to a private group of parents, and, you know, they actually gave him some of my first furniture that I had when I was married. And so it was loving and supportive, and I felt like I learned a lot from them. And I know this is something you've never heard, because I don't think about it very often, but when you ask, I'm like, whoo.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:00]:
Going back to work, it was. It was really nice having people who were, I don't know, paid attention, engaged, supportive, nurturing. It was lovely. Then my first job, not connected to my parents, would have been when I was 16. I got a job at a fabric store, and that was fascinating.

Walker Bird [00:05:29]:
Yeah. What about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:31]:
You know, I had. I went. I was raised Catholic, Catholic grade school, Catholic high school, Catholic college. And in my church, at least, we didn't really talk about other religions, and so I really had no understanding of other religions at all. I mean, at all.

Walker Bird [00:05:53]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:54]:
So there was a group of kids that worked there, and they were really kind. They belonged to a Baptist church, which was right by my house, and their lives were very different than mine. Very. I mean, I don't know. I guess I didn't think of my life as being church focused, but I guess I was just immersed in it. Even though I didn't really feel connected to it, it was what I did every day. Probably the only day I wasn't there was almost every Saturday. But they were people that I feel like, expanded my world again.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:36]:
The kids that I worked with were kind. Their friends were kind. I hung out with them. It's funny because I didn't think about them when we did our podcast on friendships, but when I was in high school, I hung out with them too, and they were actually who I went drag racing with. They weren't the people I went to high school with. Nice. They were a different group of kids.

Walker Bird [00:07:07]:
Kids, yes. Teresa's got.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:12]:
Even though she won't admit it, I admit it.

Walker Bird [00:07:19]:
I'm glad you survived your drag racing years.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:21]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Walker Bird [00:07:22]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:25]:
And so they were really kind. I didn't. I struggled with their parents, but I didn't struggle with them. They were really sweet. Overall, if there were problems, I wasn't aware that there were problems.

Walker Bird [00:07:42]:
What do you think?

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:45]:
Yeah, go ahead.

Walker Bird [00:07:45]:
What do you think the ideal workplace relationship looks like?

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:51]:
Who? That's interesting. I mean, I think about. Man, there's just been so many ideal.

Walker Bird [00:08:07]:
Don't put too much, like, overlay of judgment on that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:11]:
Yeah, okay.

Walker Bird [00:08:12]:
What's that? Let me ask it this way. What do you think a healthy workplace relationship, whether it's one on one or as a group. What does that look like to you?

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:22]:
To me? Thank you. Because I was going to say. Well, to me, what I have now is really nice and how I would describe that, which, you know, is, again, my perspective. It may not necessarily be everybody else in the office perspective, but I think overall we are kind to each other.

Walker Bird [00:08:51]:
Kind is a repeat. Theme.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:53]:
Theme.

Walker Bird [00:08:53]:
Important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:58]:
Curious. You know, we share, you know, different things that are going on in our life, but we. We have our own lives. You know, we come to work and we work and do our thing and we go home and have that life. And so for me, it's, you know, connected and curious and kind. But I don't. I don't need. I don't need them to be okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:36]:
I mean. Right, right. I don't need them to be my friend to be okay. And I mean friend as in hanging out regularly, texting, regularly, calling regularly. I mean, I don't drink, but drinking together, like, I don't like that, you know, piece. I don't need in order to be connected and care for them and enjoy hearing whatever, you know, I mean, I think often we share funny stories that are going on in our life, but a lot of times we are. I mean, I think our relationship centers around some level of respect for each other, but also passion about the work that we do together. And so I think that matters that we enjoy what we're doing, we enjoy where we're doing it, that we are all, you know, curious seekers.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:50]:
But I don't. It's very different than when I was younger.

Walker Bird [00:11:12]:
When you were younger or like when you were working at the law firm or the accounting firm?

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:17]:
Law firm. Accounting firm.

Walker Bird [00:11:18]:
Okay. Yeah, tell me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:19]:
I think that there was more of a need for a relationship.

Walker Bird [00:11:25]:
Really.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:26]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:11:26]:
Okay.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:27]:
Yeah. I think about the first law firm that I worked at and a woman that worked there, she was a similar age, maybe two years older than me. She was in a very different phase of life, though. You know, she was, you know, had a steady boyfriend and was getting married and. And I had a boyfriend, but he worked evenings. And so, you know, after work, she and I would often hang out and it would be like the Three of us hanging out, like, her and I and her boyfriend. Fiance.

Walker Bird [00:12:02]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:02]:
Okay. And I think there was a sense of, like, being chosen that I needed. I don't recall struggling to be home alone, but I don't know that I was often home alone. And I think that that continued into my other corporate jobs that I had. I think it continued through graduate school, too. And so I. I feel like. I mean, what's coming to mind is we're talking about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:45]:
This is the. The nonviolent communication piece where you talk about your needs assessment. You're, like, looking at, like, what needs are getting met, what needs are not getting met. And what comes to me now was that there were. There were definitely needs I was not getting met in my relationships. And so whether that was family or friends or partner. And so I feel like the work friendships I had were. There was probably a desperateness to some of them where I feel like, what.

Walker Bird [00:13:34]:
Do you mean by that?

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:35]:
That I needed to be seen. Chosen, recognized value. So I think there was always some level of tension. I think it was easier for me to get drawn into workplace drama or gossip when I was younger, you know, looking for my place.

Walker Bird [00:14:07]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:10]:
And. And I would say probably too. I mean, now, looking back, probably also trying to form relationship with who I thought had the most power, but I don't. I didn't have any awareness of that then. That's something that I can look back on and be like, oh, sure. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:14:33]:
Interesting, isn't it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my mind, on whatever level of consciousness, trying to ensure some level of safety. Yeah. What are you thinking when I say that?

Walker Bird [00:14:51]:
Oh, I was just trying to tab back through, you know, my career path. You know, I've been on just basically working for myself with a. Maybe a paralegal and maybe an associate, but mostly just me, 21 years.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:09]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:15:10]:
It's been a long time since I've worked with other people, so I was tabbing back to those times and way back when I first, you know, had my first job out of college and what that was like, you know, whether I could see myself gravitating that way to which way? The. What you were just describing about, you know, the group dynamic and the person with power and how to fit in and that sort of thing. So anyway, sorry, I got. I'm taking you off track.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:40]:
No, no, it's not off track.

Walker Bird [00:15:42]:
Yeah. I think that it's probably not uncommon when we're young. No different than in a social setting. So it's. It's different. And I've Worked in what I think are good work environments. When I worked for the Treasury Department, you know, it was very progressive for its day back in the, you know, shoot 80s, late 80s, early 90s.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:17]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:16:19]:
And very professional. But people were kind. There were activities, people's retirements and, you know, babies and different things like that. There would be, you know, we'd take a break and there'd be a cake and that sort of thing is. It was a really nice, supportive environment. If I needed help understanding something, I could ask and not be ashamed for the most part. And it was. It was a great place to work.

Walker Bird [00:16:52]:
But not all places I've worked have been that way. I worked in a battery factory when I was in College from 3:30 to midnight, you know, mopping floors and sand, blasting battery casings and different things like that. And in that environment, there was a lot of teasing that went on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:12]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:17:13]:
You know, like they toilet papered my Jeep and just a lot of teasing, you know, name calling in a supposedly joking way, that sort of stuff. So it wasn't a supportive environment.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:30]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:17:31]:
And then, of course, I worked as a lawyer and that's a whole different ball game.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:36]:
Yeah. What do you mean?

Walker Bird [00:17:42]:
And this isn't everybody's experience, but my experience in that workplace was there was a superficial camaraderie. You know, we would all go to lunch every day.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:56]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:17:58]:
And then with individuals, there would be joking around and you know, that sort of stuff to lighten the tension of what we had to do. But I think that there was always an underlying competition for who was going to. To get the most credit or make the most money.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:16]:
No. Okay. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:18:18]:
And so just in thinking about relationships in the workplace, it's just, you know, if you have a. What I call a healthy environment where people are kind to one another, they're professional and passionate about what they do, there's like a unified. I mean, everybody's not going to see it the same way. When I say unified, we're all moving in the same direction and people are bringing their individual talents to make this some or the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:46]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:18:47]:
Kind of how I view what goes on at your office for the most part. And when I say the most part, I mean that there have been some hires that didn't work out and that can change that whole dynamic.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:00]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:19:01]:
So anyway, without me going on and on about it, let's talk about your environment. Because it's, you know, it is what you described, at least from an outsider's perspective. But when you've had people that, I don't know, want to gossip or talk about somebody behind their backs or whatever the other experiences might be. And I'm not saying that this is exactly what's happened, because I don't know everything that's happened at your office. I just know that some people have come and gone and it hasn't been helpful. You know, when. When you have a dynamic with somebody in the workplace that is moving it from this. Healthy.

Walker Bird [00:19:46]:
At least how we're discussing healthy. Everybody is contributing and giving their best effort. They're passionate. You're moving in the same direction, and it starts detracting from that or putting a wet blanket on it. How do you handle that if, you know, say you're not the boss? Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:04]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:20:06]:
How do we navigate that sea?

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:11]:
Well, it's so interesting because my first thought is, who? We don't do that very well. And I can think of plenty of times in my past that I didn't handle that very well. Sure, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:20:23]:
And you worked in places that were big enough, you would. There would always be somebody that triggered something.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:28]:
Oh, sure, sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Hundreds of people, for sure. That I was around every day. You know, for me, at this point, it really is about getting curious, doing enough work on myself that I can work on not taking it personally. I can work on not feeling a need to defend myself. That I can. It's not excusing the other person's behavior, but look for what might be contributing to the struggle.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:09]:
I'm looking to see if this is a pattern of behavior or an exception to behavior, like we've talked about before. Because to me, a pattern of behavior is indicative of something different than an exception to behavior. Like if someone just has a really bad day and you're like, whoa, what? You know, what's up with that?

Walker Bird [00:21:27]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:28]:
Not to, you know, throw the person away because they had a really bad reaction to something. Really looking for a pattern of unhealth. And so for me, even in. Even if I'm more in an observer role with that person, let's say, in a larger company, and you're in a meeting and there's somebody who really can be disruptive, for me, it would be being curious with them in the meeting when they bring up something, you know, even if it's something we don't agree with. You know, tell me more about that. Tell me your thought process about that. Help me understand. Walk me through it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:07]:
I'm really wanting to, you know, create more curiosity and connection. It doesn't mean I'll always Work, though. I mean, some people don't want that.

Walker Bird [00:22:22]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:22]:
A lot of us do, but some people don't. And so it's really not about, you know, trying to change the other person's behavior for me, it's learning how much energy am I going to put in trying to change their behavior if there's no point.

Walker Bird [00:22:40]:
Sure. And how do I regulate myself Right. Around what they do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:43]:
Right, right. Yeah. What came to mind when you were thinking about.

Walker Bird [00:22:48]:
Well, you know, and it's not. It isn't. It's still my work environment. But I told you about my experience at court the other day.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:55]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:22:55]:
Where a judge came walk down the hallway and I greeted him. We were friendly, all that stuff. And, and I said, he said, what have you been doing? I said, oh, I was in the courtroom next door. And he said, well, how did that judge treat you? And I said, great. Well, I'm going to have to talk with them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:14]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:23:15]:
And it's that sort. And, you know, it's not unusual. I'm sure I ran into that from time to time at the bigger law firms. Right. There's some people and. And it can be a pattern that you have to work yourself around.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:30]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:23:31]:
Of somebody who wants to say those sorts of things to keep you off balance and make you insecure because of whatever their issues are. Right, right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:40]:
Do you remember how you responded to that at court the other day?

Walker Bird [00:23:44]:
Oh, I didn't get angry.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:45]:
Yeah. I mean, but do you remember, like, did you say anything? Did you laugh?

Walker Bird [00:23:50]:
Oh, I think I chuckled. You know, that laugh that, that I have. Yeah. And I think I said, well, I hope not. Something like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, you know, like, in a circumstance like that where in this particular case, I've had exposure to that judge. And so for me, in that case, anytime he approached me in the future outside of the courtroom, I would not engage in conversation.

Walker Bird [00:24:25]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:26]:
They'd just be like, so, good to see you. I gotta go. Right. Because typically they're information seeking and it's going to be used against you in some way, even if it's just to, you know, connect through negative.

Walker Bird [00:24:44]:
Come up with the next negative thing to state.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:46]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:24:47]:
Yeah, right. It is learning to, to set boundaries around. And it's like I said, that could be anybody in a, in a workplace.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:57]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:24:58]:
That they just, you know, I think when I was younger, I would get angry. You know, they have it out for me and, and maybe they do, but it, it is distracting from what you're there to do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:13]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:25:13]:
And that's part of the gaining confidence in the workplace piece that we'll, we'll turn to before this is done. But. Right, yeah. I think you're, what you're saying about I'm not going to, you know, leave that boundary wide open so they can steer this. I'm going to regulate myself. Number one, very important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:35]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:25:36]:
And harder to do when you're younger.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:38]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:25:38]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:39]:
Well, I don't even know that we know that that's a thing most people regulating ourselves.

Walker Bird [00:25:44]:
Well, and I guess let's be specific. I've learned over time, especially after starting doing meditation, to exercise that pause between stimulus and response.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:56]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:25:56]:
And also to have a broader view. What is, what are my words, you know, how will they impact the other person? How are they coming for me, you know, before I say them? And so that pause piece though, for me is regulating. It's like, okay, if somebody dings me in the past, I would have responded with, you know, some passive aggressive response. Right. Well, fuck you too, you know, or whatever.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:27]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:26:28]:
Nice backhanded statement. What? And I don't need to prove myself that way anymore.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:33]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:26:35]:
So that's regulating to me to, you know, getting grounded, feeling my feet on the floor, taking a breath. And it doesn't have to be awkward or weird is you just once you start that process, you can bring yourself pretty present pretty quickly.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:49]:
Absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:26:50]:
Boom.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:50]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:26:51]:
And then what you're saying is, yeah, great to see you. Hey, how are you? Great to see you. Gotta. Got an appointment.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:58]:
Right, Right.

Walker Bird [00:26:59]:
That way you're not giving them that opportunity.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:03]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:27:03]:
Or if they're just awful. Because some people can be.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:07]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:27:08]:
What do you do then?

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, I think about in the workplace and in that particular case, the positional piece and which conversations are going have a possibility of having an impact and which ones don't.

Walker Bird [00:27:29]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:32]:
And so when. If someone was really not kind or competitive, I really am just observing them in other interactions, trying to understand what's happening. So I'm not taking it so personally. And maybe we are the only person that they're targeting, but oftentimes we're not.

Walker Bird [00:28:04]:
It feels like it doesn't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:05]:
It feels like it. Right.

Walker Bird [00:28:06]:
When someone's got a real powerful vibe.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:09]:
Right. Right. It can feel like it's just us when it's like really naturally that's it's maybe everybody, but maybe a few people they don't do that with. Maybe people that they see as more powerful than them or they feel they.

Walker Bird [00:28:20]:
Can get something from yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:22]:
They can get something from them. And so, yeah, I think going into observer mode, I think is most important first, along with grounding, regulating, like you were talking about, really trying to see more clearly what's happening that way. We're not always in reactive mode.

Walker Bird [00:28:41]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:43]:
Because I think that is often where we are.

Walker Bird [00:28:45]:
Yeah. You know, it's. It's interesting. What's occurring to me is the, you know, the confidence, gaining confidence in the workplace, I think, comes into play right at this moment.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:55]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:28:56]:
Okay. Which is if. If we. Now, if the person's your boss, it could be a whole different ball game.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:04]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:29:04]:
Still.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:04]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:29:05]:
What I tell people in the interview process when they're prepping is, what is your value added?

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:11]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:29:12]:
Why do you want this in the first place? So why am I working here?

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:17]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:29:17]:
You know, and if the answer is just for a paycheck, then it's going to be. Going to be hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:27]:
It is.

Walker Bird [00:29:27]:
You know, and so even if it is just for a paycheck for a while, there's still the fact is you're working, you're getting paid. My advice and, you know, have I always done it? I'm sure not. But my advice would be figure out what's your value added. How can I contribute to this company even at this point, and what can I do to move forward in that direction as often as possible throughout the day, Engaging or getting upset or taking it personally with this person who wants to do it is not on mission. Right, Right. And I think to gain confidence in the workplace, you first have to know, what am I doing here?

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:11]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:13]:
And once you know that, it's. It's like, I don't know, the vision that comes is like a lighthouse on the. You know, you got rising seas, all that. And there it is.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:24]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:30:24]:
So you can bring you back. Present to. This is the. My mission, what I'm supposed to be doing, how I feel good about myself, that I've been ethical and responsible and doing the things that I should do to get a paycheck.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:42]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:30:42]:
And, you know, how am I contributing to this company? Because if you ask yourself that every day and you ask your boss that you're going to gain confidence because you'll get positive feedback because you intend it and you want it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:00]:
Right. You may not get positive feedback, but you're going to get feedback.

Walker Bird [00:31:04]:
True.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:06]:
Just because you are curious and inquiring doesn't mean you'll get positive feedback. Right. And so. But the feedback regardless. And it's interesting. You know what I think about when you say that is I don't know how many of us actually want feedback.

Walker Bird [00:31:21]:
Was scary, right? For sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:23]:
Right. And so gaining confidence is that part of being brave, which is I do want feedback. I need to ask for feedback. Feedback, even if I'm afraid of it, avoiding it isn't healthy or helpful. And if I ask for feedback and it's consistently, you know, shaming or off putting or diminishing or whatever, that gives us information too. I just think we are often conditioned to avoid. So we don't really have to make a choice.

Walker Bird [00:32:05]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:06]:
And so we can avoid asking for feedback at work so that we don't have to choose to do something different or to leave or to set boundaries or whatever. So it's not healthy. So for me, gaining confidence, is that what you were just talking about? Stepping in, being brave, being curious? And if the reaction is consistently negative, then. Then go. Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:32:37]:
Yeah. You know, also just because it's negative, you know, part of this is just that bigger picture that we're talking about is the grounding and the pausing process, but also not taking it personally. And sometimes it is personal. Right. And a lot of times it may not be. Maybe you've just got a cranky boss that, you know, loves people outside of the moment, but, man, they're there and they're just cranky, you know, and so they cut you off in a meeting, for example. Well, that's not the way the company does things. What's the effective way to address that? To get all upset and resentful and, you know, have an attitude around the office or to have a conversation with the boss and say, I.

Walker Bird [00:33:24]:
I would love to hear how I can do this better because I want to contribute.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:30]:
Yeah. So it's interesting. Oh, it's so much judgment. And again, that's why I think the observation going into the observer is the best place to. To start so that we can really see what's happening. I don't think if we have a negative, you know, experience that, you know, like, I need to then sit down with my boss right now because I need to move forward.

Walker Bird [00:33:53]:
Oh, no, I'm not talking about right now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:55]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:33:56]:
That would be, to me, the wrong time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:58]:
Be reactive. Right. They would feel.

Walker Bird [00:34:01]:
Rest.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:01]:
Compulsive. Right. So getting grounded, getting clear, going into your observer. And you know, what I imagine is if you have a boss, that's really fine. But they tend to be grouchy in meetings because they don't know how to deliver a message. Well. Or they're afraid of people's reactions. And so the only way they know how to do it is to be blunt about it because there is that right there is that for me, if it's really just a matter of delivery, but it's not really their heart or their mission, I would sit down with them and I would recommend trying to say something like, I will do my work on this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:34:47]:
I'm not asking you to do my work for me. But what I recognize is that in meetings, for myself, when something is asked of you in the way you respond, it doesn't seem like you're taking it into consideration. It feels like we lose productivity, it feels like we lose our focus. It feels like as a team we are not as connected, that we all go into some level of self preservation and we're not really putting energy towards the goal. And so I'm going to keep doing my work because I value the work and the job and being here. I just recognize that. And because I don't think, you know, most of us are just struggling and we're not thinking about the impact that we're having on other people.

Walker Bird [00:35:48]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:49]:
We're just trying to push through our own fear, our own anxiety, our own reactivity. And so I feel like if we are genuinely observant and thoughtful and it's not telling somebody what to do, it really is for me bringing awareness in regards to efficiency. You know, I think about that, you know, company that I worked with the last few years and you know, so many conversations with people, whether it was, you know, mid management or whatever, all the levels, like when I would suggest talking to someone that was their superior in that way, it was kind of like, you know, that's so scary. Yeah, and I understand it's scary. My expectation of you is to be brave. That's my expectation. And so, and it's not about being blunt, it's just really about being an observer and sharing what you notice the impact has on you. But again, you're not saying that's all your fault and you're responsible for my reaction.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:07]:
But I'm not sure, I'm not sure if you recognize the impact that it's having. And so what happens is the meeting ends and then people are spending two hours talking about what happened at the meeting instead of executing whatever it is that you wanted us to execute. Because everybody then is having to process whatever their experience was before they can get focused again. And you know this about me. My expectation of leaders is that they do their work.

Walker Bird [00:37:46]:
Sure. No, I hear you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:50]:
So it may be, it's not the right place for you.

Walker Bird [00:37:57]:
Oh. If you can't get traction when you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:00]:
Are reflective, calm, compassionate, curious. Sure. I just think most of us, I mean, I see this in the therapy room all the time. I'm afraid to leave. I'm afraid I won't get paid as much. I'm. I'm afraid of taking, you know, even a lateral move. I'll look like I'm unreliable or immature.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:27]:
I don't want to take something that looks like it is a lesser position because then people will. I mean, we have all of these reasons that come up that take away our power.

Walker Bird [00:38:39]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:40]:
And so instead of having a compassionate, kind, curious voice, we hold it in.

Walker Bird [00:38:49]:
Get cynical.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:50]:
Get cynical. Right.

Walker Bird [00:38:52]:
Start gossiping.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:53]:
Gossiping. Right. Instead of being brave.

Walker Bird [00:38:59]:
Yeah. And also forgetting the whole reason we're there, which is to contribute to the company that we're working for.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:05]:
Right. Which I think is a great point that you brought up earlier. You know, why are you here at this place, doing this job at this time?

Walker Bird [00:39:15]:
What is the best I can do under those circumstances?

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:39:19]:
And if that's your focus, the rest comes around or it's time to move on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:24]:
Right. Yeah. And I. I feel like, you know, when people come in and, you know, maybe things are difficult at a company that they're at, maybe the company is struggling. Maybe it's a pattern for the company, maybe it's not. I'll say, where are you going to put your energy? It doesn't help if we focus it on the distress. And it doesn't mean we don't process it and have conversation about it. It just means that doesn't become where our energy goes.

Walker Bird [00:39:59]:
What's the typical answer to that?

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:01]:
Or is there a typical answer to which part?

Walker Bird [00:40:04]:
When you say, where do you think you should put your energy?

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:10]:
For me, it's finding something that maybe is getting neglected within a company. I can guarantee you probably at almost every single workplace, if you needed something that you felt like you had some level of control over, that you could put some energy into that. If you wouldn't asked whoever, you know, the owner or HR or whatever, there'd be something that you could do. Even if it is mentoring someone. I just don't think we ask. I think we just get stuck in whatever.

Walker Bird [00:41:00]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:00]:
Pattern we're in. You know, volunteering. Bigger companies have a lot of opportunities for people to volunteer for different committees and things. I mean, I remember that. That from when I was there.

Walker Bird [00:41:15]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:15]:
And so for me, you know, if the job you have is a struggle, are there Other things you can do within the company to put energy into that make you feel like you have more purpose. For now, my, like, philosophy is do something so that you have contrast. Don't just keep doing it and not doing anything else, because then we just sit there and spin and we get stuck. And so for me, if you're stepping into something that is unfamiliar, if you're volunteering, if you're taking on a mentee, you're providing contrast for yourself, you're doing something else that's going to teach you, is this enough or is it not enough? But if we just sit and we spin, when do we move into action? Yeah, when we get just so fed up we're just fucking done and we walk out the door when we really haven't put energy into doing it any differently. I mean, I think that happens often. So putting energy into something, and if it's not at work, maybe you take up something else that you enjoy. I mean, this is. It's been a long time since I worked at a big corporation, but, you know, there were people who would put energy into.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:43]:
Big brothers, big sisters.

Walker Bird [00:42:45]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:46]:
And so it wasn't as much the work they were doing, it was the things that they were connected to because of work that. That. That filled some level of, you know, passion or, I don't know, a sense of accomplishment in them that they wouldn't have had access to otherwise.

Walker Bird [00:43:07]:
And so, yeah, I mean, I think if we're finding purpose and meaning associated with work or directly, then the confidence is going to come. And the other part is put in the time to become competent at what you do. I mean, you know, I'm always reading some article. I buy books all the time. I go to seminars across the country because I want. If I'm going to be a trial lawyer.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:34]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:43:34]:
I want to be the best when I walk in to that courtroom.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:38]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:43:38]:
And I've learned so much. But that's the work behind making, you know, having real confidence in what you do. And it takes time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:48]:
It does.

Walker Bird [00:43:48]:
You got to be patient with yourself. It takes time to become and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:55]:
And resources, you know, for me. You know, that about me, too. I'm always learning, exploring, taking a new class, reading another book, research, whatever. I think I learned early on to step into that learning that I was not going to rely on my very busy bosses to be the one that taught me that I had to grow on my own.

Walker Bird [00:44:26]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:27]:
That I had to choose to grow in whatever capacity. It didn't matter.

Walker Bird [00:44:32]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:34]:
But, you know, waiting around for, you know, the attorneys that I worked for to have time, you know, to teach me. Yeah, and it was harder. It required more effort, for sure, back then, you know, the library microfiche, you know, it was, it wasn't like today. It wasn't like today Google. Right, Exactly.

Walker Bird [00:44:54]:
Or now chat.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:56]:
Yeah, yeah. And so for me, it's that the continual choice to learn, to be curious. There are so many free resources out there that people just don't even know exist. Like, you can, you know, if you're into science and technology. MIT has so many courses that are free. I mean, you don't get credit for them, but they're, they, they're available to you. And so whether that is, you know, YouTube or a university auditing a class, you know, to me, you know, gaining confidence in the workplace requires you to put effort into learning, growing, exploring, experimenting, and not waiting around. Because if.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:48]:
If you think you're going to gain confidence in the workplace by waiting around for, to help grow you up, you will wait a very long time.

Walker Bird [00:45:59]:
Well, sure. And it's. If the boss has to try to do that, you know, you don't shine nearly as bright as if you're out there trying or you go to the boss. I'm interested in becoming the best at what I do to make the most contribution I can. Can you give me some advice?

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:20]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:46:21]:
And then go take care of it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:22]:
Right. Do it.

Walker Bird [00:46:23]:
Asking them to, you know, do that for you now. I mean, if it develops into a mentoring relationship, that's great, but you've got to read the tea leaves. His bosses are busy.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:33]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:46:34]:
However, let's step back into your experience. You had a boss that taught you a lot as a mentor.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:42]:
Yeah, he, he did. And what I would say is, is that I respected him and the work he did. So any advice he gave me, I did. It didn't matter what it was. You know, I remember him trying to help me learn how to keep track of all the projects that, you know, I had to do. And he gave me this very basic, I don't know, a thousand times copied Xerox of a, of a forum, you know, and I took it and recreated it in Excel at some point, but I used that for, I don't know, 20 years to keep track of everything. And he was really helpful. So if he said, hey, read that or try that, I would always be like, okay, I'll do that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:46]:
It was always helpful. He was watching me, he was observing, and I could go to him and ask and he would give me feedback. And if he saw Something he would give me feedback. What I trusted in that particular regard was that he wanted better for me.

Walker Bird [00:48:08]:
Right. That's what I meant. Or the difference between a lot of people and a mentor.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:14]:
Yes. Yeah. And I definitely not everybody has that. Yeah. But he really did, I would say, supported my curiosity and efforts. And I really wanted to be, you know, the best version of myself in whatever, you know, job I had.

Walker Bird [00:48:37]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:39]:
And it wasn't, you know, I always wanted to and still do want to find my edge in everything. I don't want to. I learned at some point that waiting for someone to teach me that I wasn't ever going to have that. Truly, even Steve, who was so significant in my growth, I didn't stay there. And he wanted me to stay. It's just that because I didn't have a degree in accounting, my degree was in philosophy, they weren't going to pay me.

Walker Bird [00:49:31]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:32]:
And, you know, even though I believe that he didn't care, he wasn't the only partner there. There were plenty of others.

Walker Bird [00:49:43]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:44]:
And so. And maybe they didn't think I would leave. I don't know. But I did walk away from that mentorship by leaving. And for me, that was about being respected. And I also talked to one of my managers about it because I was really struggling because I valued so much the education that I got there. And he said, teresa, do not stay for people. We will all be gone one day.

Walker Bird [00:50:13]:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's an important point about relationship, relationships in the workplace. And again, to me, it comes back to what your focus, you know, so. Yeah. And you have to take that piece that you just stated, you know, and. And use it positively. Right. Which isn't.

Walker Bird [00:50:32]:
Well, screw everybody else.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:34]:
Oh, right, right.

Walker Bird [00:50:35]:
I'm all out for number one.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:36]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:50:37]:
That's. I don't think is, you know, is healthy in the workplace relationship. But recognizing that, you know, I'm going to work hard, I want to bring my best, do the best that I can to contribute to whatever the goal that the boss is laying down is. Right. And regardless of whether I get recognized or not, that benefits me because I am learning every step of the way. And it comes to the point where, you know, I need to move on because I don't feel respective and I respect it and I've done my best. Then I'm not staying out of some piece of loyalty like I owe somebody.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:16]:
Right, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:51:20]:
Powerful stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:21]:
Yeah. That I'm responsible for. Whatever.

Walker Bird [00:51:24]:
Yeah. As a young person with that, you know, because you had a Lot of respect for him.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:30]:
I did.

Walker Bird [00:51:31]:
You know, and really heartfelt feelings for him all these years later to. To be able to stand up for yourself and just say, you know, I. I'm worth more than this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:44]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:51:45]:
And thank you so much for everything that you've taught me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:48]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:51:49]:
And go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:58]:
I guess it's like every other area of our life. How brave will we choose to be?

Walker Bird [00:52:05]:
Yeah. Learning to. To. I, you know, for me, it's interesting in the, in the law business, it took me years, you know, and it's just like, gosh, I wish I'd had somebody, you know, a mentor, you know, but that was waiting, I think when putting it in context to this conversation, I was waiting for somebody else to come and save me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:26]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:52:26]:
You know, or recognize me or whatever that was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:29]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:52:30]:
Young.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:31]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:52:32]:
But I didn't understand the business side of what you do as a lawyer. Right. And I wasn't stepping back to look at the big picture of the company that I was working for.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:47]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:52:47]:
To say to myself, why am I here? And what's. How is. How am I contributing to their goal?

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:57]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:52:58]:
Yeah. How am I contributing?

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:59]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:00]:
Because I really was just waiting for somebody to hand me a case to work on versus bringing cases.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:07]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:08]:
And that made a huge difference for how long it took me to take off. Years.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:15]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:53:16]:
And a lot of pain.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:17]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:19]:
So I think your point is really well taken. We have to have agency.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:24]:
We do. We do. I believe that, you know, I think about going back to that company that I would often bring up a book for everybody to read. I don't know that anybody ever read what I suggested. And all of them, any of them would have been helpful for them to have read to better understand themselves, the people that worked around them. I'm going to pull up my audible library really quick just to read some of them off. You know, understanding how business works better, but doing it really from a person perspective. And so this one called Blue Ocean Strategy was really, really interesting to me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:22]:
Let's see. The Fearless Organization. The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. Let's see, we're going to get duals. The Anatomy of Peace. The Psychology of Achievement. Those are leadership. Oh, leadership.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:44]:
And self deception. Oh, my gosh, that was such a good one. Oh, yeah. Those are the ones that, you know, are at the top of my. At the top of my list. And so I think about, you know, again, how much energy am I going to put into, you know, becoming the best version of myself in the workforce? Right, right. And so I feel like. Was there anything you wanted to bring up?

Walker Bird [00:55:12]:
Brian Tracy's stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:13]:
Oh, right. Brian Tracy's right.

Walker Bird [00:55:15]:
Eat that frog. Do it now. The story of Lululemon. Great stuff. The mountain is you. The psychology of achievement is what you recommended to me, and I absolutely have listened to it at least twice now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:33]:
Yeah. And I started listening to that when I was 18.

Walker Bird [00:55:36]:
12 week, year 12, rules for life. Jordan Peterson compete to create. That's Michael Gervais and Pete Carroll, a NFL coach. I mean, lots of different things, but that's what we're talking about, which is, you know, if to sit back and say, well, my company doesn't give very good training, or I'm waiting for that extra, you know, if. If you want to gain your own confidence and build yourself, and it's to contribute to the company the best way you can in that moment, but it also is building yourself.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:09]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:56:09]:
You'll be confident and have lots of skills and knowledge that will translate into the next job. If this one has its. Run its course.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:18]:
Right. Or even, you know, spending the time and effort to educate yourself, you may find that in meetings you have more confidence because you have a better understanding of what is happening.

Walker Bird [00:56:33]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:33]:
There just may be context that we don't have. I mean, I have learned so much over the last 30 years. And so. So to me, gaining confidence in the workplace is, you know, are you taking the time, are you making the effort to continue to educate yourself about, you know, what you do, how businesses work, the relationship piece. There's just so much that we can step into. So agency, as you said, do I accept responsibility for myself at work, or am I waiting around for someone to rescue me?

Walker Bird [00:57:13]:
Oh, and the other part it takes is just, you know, some time per day, even if it's an hour.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:20]:
That you set aside to read audio books on the way anytime you're driving. I can't. All the years I wasted, you know, and I love music, love listening to it when I drive, etc. But it's so much more productive to listen to a book on tape. You know, it's audible.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:35]:
So for me to learn what I do when I get my car is what do I need right now? Do I need quiet? Does my brain need something to noodle around? Do I need music? What do I need? As opposed to just turning something on, you know, like it being reflexive, you know, I'm intentional about, you know, what I listen to.

Walker Bird [00:57:59]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:00]:
And sometimes I think it's. I want to learn tonight and I turn it on. I'M like, I don't want to learn tonight.

Walker Bird [00:58:06]:
Well, you know, the thing is it's all so much more available than it was back in the day. You know, when you were using cassette tapes to listen to the psychology of a cheat.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:14]:
Oh yeah, I have two sets still.

Walker Bird [00:58:17]:
You were lucky you had a cassette player in your car probably. But it, you know, it is. And I think anytime you're working to make yourself a better person is contributing in one way or another to the, you know, to the whoever it is you're working for but also to yourself and your future and, and making the space in the day. And this brings me back. You know, I listen to Jim Rohn a lot. He's an old motivational speaker back before Tony Robbins. He was one of Tony Robbins, his mentors actually. Jim Rohn is great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:51]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:58:52]:
Old school, you know. But you know, and he would say when you're at work, work and when you're with your family, be with your family.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:03]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:59:03]:
And Brian Tracy would say, you know, don't stand around at the water cooler. The person who is going to advance and have the most confidence and blow the lid off this thing is the one. It's not that you have no interest in being friendly with your co employees but they're, you know, don't come in and sit around for the first three hours of the day drinking coffee and chit chatting or reading the paper and doing those sorts of things. Get to work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:32]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:59:33]:
And, and if somebody wants to distract you because there are. And I used to be one of these people. Hey, can you chat about this? And it wasn't about blah. It was just like me processing because I wasn't confident in what I was doing as a lawyer.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:45]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:59:46]:
You know, is setting boundaries. You know, love to talk with you. We need to set a time, you know, over lunch or after work. But I've got to get this done.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:55]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:59:56]:
And I mean it's just that. Let's go. And you can be kind in setting those boundaries.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:02]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [01:00:02]:
And not ostracize yourself from the rest of the the office. But it all is also recognizing if I'm using that time efficiently to get the job done, then I'm going to have, you know, an hour to go work out. I'll have another hour if I want to study or read or listen. You know, if I'm just listening to that book on the way to work and back home. Home can make all the difference over a year's time.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:26]:
Absolutely.

Walker Bird [01:00:27]:
Anyway, I got all excited about it because I wish that I'd done it differently, but I do it now.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [01:00:35]:
And it's made a big difference.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:39]:
Yeah. You know, going back to where we started, it's like, is work work, or are we trying to make work our substitute family? Are we trying to make work our substitute friendships? I don't know. Just things to think about, questions to ask ourselves. What is work for us? And it's not about not having relationship. You know, being kind and compassionate, caring. But what's our goal? I think you started out there. You know, what, why am I here? Why am I doing what I'm doing? Those questions we don't ask ourselves very often. You know, being really clear.

Walker Bird [01:01:22]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:23]:
I think is helpful. Yeah. You know, and. And we can find great friends at work. But if our friendship becomes the focus and not work, it get really messy.

Walker Bird [01:01:43]:
Yeah. Friendship ends. It gets messy. We're not focused on work. We're focused on chit chatting with friends. That's messy too. It's not helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:51]:
Yeah. Distracting to other people.

Walker Bird [01:01:53]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:53]:
Yeah. There can be consequence to that. Right. So are we making choice?

Walker Bird [01:02:00]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:02:01]:
Are we growing? Why are we working? Are we doing what we like? Because it's hard to stay focused when we're not doing things we like.

Walker Bird [01:02:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:02:14]:
Or find value in maybe. It doesn't even have to be something we like as much as it is something we value. It's just asking ourself questions. I think we're just not very curious with ourself. Why am I doing what I'm doing? What's really important to me? What am I most afraid of? I just don't think we ask ourselves what it's.

Walker Bird [01:02:45]:
It's just nice to look back over it and feel like I've progressed to the point. And I know I work alone, but it's still. I do a lot to be a professional. You know, despite struggles with health and focus, that sort of stuff, I still work really hard to be the best that I can be.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:06]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:03:07]:
And it's nice. I wish I'd done it when I was much younger.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:10]:
Yeah. Well, I think I just keep working on it.

Walker Bird [01:03:13]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:14]:
I'm always trying to find the balance. It would be easy for me to work by myself all day, every day because of the way my brain works. So it's so interesting because I think, what would my life be like if I wasn't a therapist? What would friendships mean to me at work if I wasn't a therapist? That's a big question, you know, because I connect deeply with people all day and so typically When I'm at my work desk, I am working. Yeah. Yeah. Then I go back to the needs thing. And I think what needs would be getting met and what needs wouldn't be getting met if I wasn't a therapist? Fascinating.

Walker Bird [01:04:15]:
Yeah. And I think part of what we're talking about is having those conversations with ourselves. Ourselves. Whether you can just do it, you know, by thinking or journaling or having a conversation with somebody that you like to talk with.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:27]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:04:28]:
But what. You know, why am I here?

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:31]:
Right.

Walker Bird [01:04:33]:
And how am I contributing?

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:35]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:04:36]:
You know.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:36]:
Yeah. I wouldn't change anything.

Walker Bird [01:04:38]:
Why do I want this?

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:40]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:04:41]:
It's just. It's so important to really do that.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:44]:
Well, I think it's the only way we can really make choice. And are we surviving or are we choosing the life that we're living?

Walker Bird [01:04:54]:
Yeah. And I. Yeah. I mean, for me, for years, was just existing.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:01]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:05:02]:
Yeah. In so many ways. But work, too, you know, and it didn't serve me well.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:08]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:05:08]:
I mean, I was still a good attorney, but not as really good as I am now. But also, you know, I. Without learn, you know, out. Without asking that question, I was not contributing.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:24]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:05:24]:
In the way that they expected.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:27]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:05:28]:
So I learned that the hard way.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:30]:
Right.

Walker Bird [01:05:30]:
Go out on my own.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:31]:
Right.

Walker Bird [01:05:32]:
You're either gonna starve and your family's gonna starve or you're gonna learn how to swim.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:37]:
Right. Right.

Walker Bird [01:05:38]:
And I learned. But even that took a long time.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:41]:
Well, there you go. There's the contrast.

Walker Bird [01:05:43]:
Yeah. There is the contrast. Anyway.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:45]:
Yeah. Well, interesting conversation.

Walker Bird [01:05:47]:
Very.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:48]:
Thanks, babe.

Walker Bird [01:05:48]:
I love you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:49]:
I love you, too.

Walker Bird [01:05:51]:
If you've been wishing for deeper trust and authenticity in your relationships, looking for better communication skills with your partner, we hope that you'll join us for our latest course, 10 Essential Skills to Build Stronger and Healthier Relationships.

Theresa Hubbard [01:06:04]:
Yeah. Everything that Walker and I do is something that we put energy into creating it thoughtfully and intentionally. We're very curious about what might be most helpful for people in building healthier skills in a relationship. We recognize it's something that we all need to practice time and time again and know that we're not just talking about intimate partners in this course. We're talking about family, coworkers, friends. We really want to walk through this process of building healthier relationship in all areas of our life, and we hope that you consider joining us. Enrollment opens February 1st. Launching March 20th.

Theresa Hubbard [01:06:51]:
First day of spring and the first day of our retreat.

Walker Bird [01:06:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:06:55]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:06:56]:
We'll see you there.

Theresa Hubbard [01:06:57]:
Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.