From Conflict to Connection: A Real Talk on Relationships

Walker Bird [00:00:00]:
If you've been wishing for deeper trust and authenticity in your relationships, looking for better communication skills with your partner, we hope that you'll join us for our latest course, 10 Essential Skills to Build Stronger and Healthier Relationships.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:13]:
Yeah. Everything that Walker and I do is something that we put energy into creating it thoughtfully and intentionally. We're very curious about what might be most helpful for people in building healthier skills in relationship. We recognize it's something that we all need to practice time and time again and know that we're not just talking about intimate partners in this course. We're talking about family, co workers, friends. We really want to walk through this process of building healthier relationship in all areas of our life, and we hope that you consider joining us. Enrollment opens February 1st. Launching March 20th.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:00]:
First day of spring and the first day of our retreat.

Walker Bird [00:01:03]:
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see you there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:06]:
Thank you.

Walker Bird [00:01:11]:
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:39]:
Well, hello.

Walker Bird [00:01:39]:
Hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:40]:
How are you?

Walker Bird [00:01:42]:
I am, I'm okay. Yeah. I, I, I don't want to, but I want to because I know it's good for relationship. Have a conversation about a fight we had just over the weekend.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:59]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:00]:
Are you good with that?

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:01]:
I'm good with that.

Walker Bird [00:02:02]:
Okay. It. We're complex and we're messy, and despite all the personal work we do and everything else, sometimes, you know, we can't hold it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:19]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:20]:
And I think, I think the big, the positive part is being able to, because we've already discussed it and worked through some of it, but there's more for me. So I want to have one of those hard conversations.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:38]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:40]:
It's hard to talk about, you know, failings, but again, it's not. The failing would be to have had the fight and then just brush it under the rug.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:53]:
Agreed. Agreed.

Walker Bird [00:02:56]:
Otherwise, it's just another opportunity for growth and hopefully closeness. This is what I want.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:03]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:03:04]:
I want to do it. Well, I love you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:06]:
I love you, too.

Walker Bird [00:03:08]:
Yeah. So I'll set the stage, I guess. Was it Friday night?

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:20]:
I think so.

Walker Bird [00:03:21]:
Was it Saturday?

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:22]:
It was Friday.

Walker Bird [00:03:23]:
Friday night. Okay. Yeah. So I hadn't started working on the bathroom yet. Right. No, I don't. I think we were just tired and decided we'd do the bathroom work starting On Saturday and Sunday, we both had.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:39]:
Had a long day.

Walker Bird [00:03:42]:
Oh, that's right. I was in depositions all day.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:44]:
You're in deposition? I was in therapy and working all day. I mean, my personal therapy and working all day.

Walker Bird [00:03:49]:
Yeah, I was detoxing from the attorney stuff. Ah. So it was getting close to bedtime. We were both. I know we were both really tired, but. So you're in the bedroom. I think you just had pulled a load of laundry from the dryer and you were folding clothes on the bed.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:19]:
I think I was folding clothes.

Walker Bird [00:04:21]:
Okay. Anyway, so I come in the bedroom and I head over towards my side of the bed. Um, and, you know, we don't live together full time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:35]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:04:35]:
So I get to come over on the weekends. And that's just the way things are given our child situation. Right. And so I. I get over there and there's. And what's so funny is it wasn't even mine, but I believed it was mine, and I'm not. I think I share pretty well with you. Would you agree with that? Most of the time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:06]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Walker Bird [00:05:09]:
And you do, too, most of the time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:16]:
Not baked goods.

Walker Bird [00:05:18]:
I wasn't gonna say it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:19]:
But you did. I love that you do not give my croissant y. I love about you.

Walker Bird [00:05:27]:
Well, you share, but it's not like, you know, a bite for you. Hand it over. You know, just. I actually like it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:38]:
Thanks.

Walker Bird [00:05:38]:
Yeah, I mean, let's get to know something we really, really enjoy. Right. If it was a bowl of ice cream, I might not share, so. Well, I don't know that I've ever shared ice cream with you. Like, here's a bite. Well, actually, we have in the car.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:50]:
Yeah. Recently. Because I haven't been ordering as much ice cream when we've had it. And so I did ask you recently, and you did share.

Walker Bird [00:05:57]:
Yeah. So I don't think that's what it was about. Well, I'm pretty sure, actually. I'm 100 sure, actually. But I did believe it was mine.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:09]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:06:10]:
And the part that stuck. So anyway, the plug and the super long charging cord for my phone. So. Because we get in bed and we'll usually, you know, we've already been talking through the evening, so we usually both pick up our phones and just kind of settled in and, you know, showing each other reels that are funny and, you know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:29]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:06:29]:
You show me funny people, and I show you cute animals doing funny things. And it's nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:36]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:06:36]:
You know, I wouldn't want to be lost like that all night. But it is fun. And I do like the sharing part because it just feels like, you know, at least we're doing something together.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:48]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:06:51]:
So anyway, the charging cord was gone.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:53]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:06:54]:
And it's been in the same socket.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:56]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:06:57]:
To me for, like, two years.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:59]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:07:00]:
And it was gone. And so. And you'll have to. I don't know the exact words, but I used a tone with you. It's like, where's my charging cord?

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:11]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:07:12]:
Or maybe even, what did you do with my charging cord? But I think I said where, because I thought maybe somebody else took it. And this is my recall. I don't know that the deep. Maybe the details are important, so if you need to say no, that's not exactly how it happened. That's good. So I used an attitude. And, you know, normally I. That sort of thing doesn't.

Walker Bird [00:07:43]:
I've gotten beyond that a lot. But I want to talk to you about why. And we've talked about it a little bit, but in any event, you responded by saying, I took it to charge my iPad. It's downstairs. You can go get it. And I laughed, not in a kind way, because in my mind, I got all up in the feels about, wait a minute, you took my cord? That's been there for two years. That's my side of the room. And you took it downstairs and you're giving me permission to go get it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:22]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:23]:
So all up in ego and, you know, whatever. I mean, we're gonna get there. What I believe was the underlying piece. Right. And so you didn't like the laugh. Didn't appreciate the tone of the laugh either. And you're like, why are you laughing? And it just started to slam dance from there as I. And I wasn't.

Walker Bird [00:08:46]:
I wasn't particularly worked up. I was just being snarky, I think. But maybe I was more worked up than I thought. And so you got quiet. This is my observation. You got quiet. My experience. And I knew you were mad.

Walker Bird [00:09:11]:
And you're folding clothes harder. You know how that goes. So anyway, I go and get in bed, and I pick up my phone, and I'm looking at the phone, like, thinking, you know, and then you disappear. And then you come back in and you've got the charging cord and the plug, and you plug it in and kind of, you know, flick the cord at me. And then we were on. And I probably said something that we've recommended in our, you know, course modules. Yeah, that's probably those. These things aren't helpful, you know, um.

Walker Bird [00:09:57]:
Or at least, you know, we've talked about doing a segment on relationship killers, you know, and I probably was like, I don't know why you're being. And I said this more than once. Why are you being so sensitive about a phone cord? You know, and I remember you didn't like it. Our voices got raised, and then you. It. I was the first one to curse, and I didn't curse you, but I said, I don't need your effing permission, you know, to go get a cord that is mine. And you moved. And I'm laughing at myself now because the mind part was part of it, I guess, because I kept saying it, and it turns out that it was yours.

Walker Bird [00:11:01]:
And I don't know if you told me that in the moment. I think you did. Yelling, you know, and since we've talked, you know, I understand. You know, it's hard enough to get down to go use the elliptical, something that you've started wanting to do. And now I know that your iPad doesn't hold a charge, so it's got to be plugged in the whole time. And that you, when you took it, were contemplating ordering one. It just hadn't happened yet, you know, all that stuff. And so, you know, a part of me was just like, what the hell? Why are we fighting over this cord? But you were really upset, too, and I want to know more about that, because I don't know that we've ever really gotten to it, but there was an underlying current going on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:11:51]:
That I don't think we've talked through. Do you agree?

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:11:57]:
Yeah, sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:57]:
There's more to share. Always.

Walker Bird [00:12:01]:
Okay. So do you want to share or want me to share? Since I've been doing all the talk, Maybe there's corrections, too, because maybe I said things differently than I remember, because in the midst of all that, you're like, you don't even know what you said.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:14]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:12:15]:
So what did I say?

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:18]:
Well, what I would start off with, I. While when you asked me at the beginning if I was okay if we talked about this and I said yes, I don't want it to come across that it doesn't mean it doesn't make me anxious or that I don't feel it in my body. Right. It's just I'm always going to say yes to having the hard conversation. That doesn't mean that it's easy, and it doesn't mean that it won't be uncomfortable. So I wanted to be clear about that. Do you want me to share from my perspective from the beginning, is that what would Be helpful or do you want me to?

Walker Bird [00:12:59]:
I. No, I just, if I was, if I had because I got upset, you know, didn't register what I said or the, you know, how I said it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:14]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:13:17]:
That it would probably be helpful to see that part of me if you want to share it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:25]:
Sure. So, you know, for me, I don't, I recognize that we don't remember as much as we think we remember. I'm really clear and I talk about that in session all the time. Well, as best as I recall, or this may not be what you said, but I think this is, you know, what I took away from it. So I'm really thoughtful and careful about that part because we can think, we remember and a lot of us don't.

Walker Bird [00:13:58]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:59]:
So I don't know that I could tell you really the words is as much as what I observed in myself and you. I mean, I, I do remember and I, and I need to do it this way because I need to walk through the process of it. I'm a very process oriented person and so it's hard for me as you know, to step into the middle of something. I. The way my brain works is I have to go through the process. So. So yes, I was in the bedroom, I was folding clothes. You came in, you made the comment about the cord.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:37]:
And I said, yeah, I took it downstairs, you can go get it. And for me it was like, no attitude. It was, I'm just folding clothes. If you want to go get it, go get it. I don't know how much charge your phone has. You know what I mean? There was nothing in me that was like being directive. I was just saying, you can go get it. It's not no big deal.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:58]:
So when you had the response of whatever it was, you said, I don't remember something about, I don't need your permission. Then that's when I was like.

Walker Bird [00:15:12]:
Yes, I recall that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:18]:
And then I was like, okay, I don't know what this is about, but if he wants the cord, he knows where the cord is. I'm just going to keep folding laundry. And then for me, because of the way that, you know, my brain works, then you just got into bed and I was like, oh, so he's not going to go get the phone charging cord. Okay. So then I. This is again how I think, I think, what does this look like tomorrow when he doesn't have his phone charged because he didn't go downstairs to get the charging cord? That's where I go.

Walker Bird [00:16:00]:
What did you think it was going.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:01]:
To look like that, you'd be grumpy tomorrow because your phone wasn't charged. And for me, I'm like, you know, we can all have a bad day and we're tired and whatever, but I don't want to drag it over into the next day. And so. So I went down and got the cord, and. And I don't remember what the look on your face was when I came back in with the cord, but whatever that was, I don't know. I just remember thinking, well, that wasn't helpful. And then that's when I plugged it in and flipped the. The cord at you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:47]:
So, yeah, so for me, it was, you know, the thought process was, you know, I'm folding clothes. I don't even know why we're here other than we're tired. Yeah, that's. I mean, up to that point, I can tell you. Up to that point. So was that helpful?

Walker Bird [00:17:15]:
Yeah, I think so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:16]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:17:18]:
Yeah. So in the midst of it, I'm saying, I'm not doing this. I am not doing this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:24]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:17:30]:
And I wanted to run.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:31]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:17:33]:
So, you know, because when you flick the cord, I was like, are you really that mad? And you're like, yes, darn tootin. Right. I am. You know, and then it was on. Right, right, right. So anyway, I kept saying that, and you're like, what do you mean? And I don't know that I even responded. I think I just said it again. And then I started packing up my stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:01]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:18:03]:
And so I got to the laundry room because I had clothes in the dryer that weren't dry and clothes in the washer that were wet.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:09]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:18:10]:
But, you know, through those in my little duffel bag thing. And you came in, and what I remember you saying is, I. I don't want this. Something along those lines. And you're looking at me. You weren't blinking very much, what I noticed. And I'm not talking because I'm like, in. Like, I'm out of here, you know, I'm running.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:43]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:18:44]:
And you. Then you. I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything, I think, for the rest of the night, but. So you said, I don't want this. And then you said, if I made you feel unsafe, I'm sorry. I think that's what you said. Maybe you'll recall it differently, but in any event, you know, and I remember just continuing to look at you, and I was trying to stare at you, you know, like, look into your eyes because I didn't think you were blinking much.

Walker Bird [00:19:21]:
So Talk about going into your inner child. But in any event, you know, and sometimes if. If we get that far along, we're both in teenager mode for the most part. You were not in teenager mode at that point, but I felt like maybe part of you was trying to intimidate me with the stare. You know, this is everything that's going on in my mind, so I'm trying to do it back. And what I realized, you know, so instead of looking you in the middle of the nose, you know, or both eyes, trying, you know, because you know how you do sometimes when you start paying attention, it's odd. So I'm trying to focus on your right eye. Right.

Walker Bird [00:19:57]:
But what I could feel was. And I'm guessing because you're so observant, you know this, but my eyes kept doing that. And I'm sure that there's a, you know, psychological reason behind that. You can share it with me. So after hell, I don't know, what was it? A minute, two minutes, three minutes? I don't know how long it was. It was quite a while. Yeah, it wasn't three minutes, but something seemed like a long time. I turned around and I put the clothes back in the dryer and the clothes back in the washer, started the dryer, and then just walked past you.

Walker Bird [00:20:39]:
And the most I could muster at that point, and I, you know, I wanted. I wanted to. To be able to have the strength to try to talk it out then, but all I had was staying. That was the most I could do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:59]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:21:00]:
You know, so got in bed and I don't know how you laid there, but my back was to you, you know, and what was. I was thinking, and I couldn't go to sleep for quite a while, but what I was thinking was of that picture from the. What is that? The Burning Man Inner child. Yeah. Where the two people sitting with their backs to each other, angry or upset, and their little children are facing each other and touching hands. And so that came to mind, but I was just too flooded.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:39]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:21:40]:
Too tired. So I don't think we really talked about it until like 9:30. So we had a. A podcast interview.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:55]:
Oh, yeah, I remember. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:21:57]:
So we met over here and then we kind of hashed out a little bit. And then afterwards, the working together to do that professionally and well, and be kind and welcoming to our guest, I think helped put our energy back together. And then we discussed it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:22:16]:
So how was the rest of it from your perspective?

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:18]:
Sure, sure. So. So you had gone down. Oh, so you went downstairs to put the cord back on my iPad. Right.

Walker Bird [00:22:31]:
And so I'll show you that' Oh, I forgot that part. What's coming next? Yeah. And I did speak. You did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:43]:
And. And so when you were coming upstairs, I think I said something like, you know, what's really going on for you? Or what are you not saying? Or something like that. And then we were both in the living room, and the lights weren't on. I mean, the living room's pretty bright anyway, but. And the lights weren't on, and I was sharing my frustration about why are we here in this place? Why. Why has it gotten to this place? And I remember, like, I had my hands in front of me and I was doing this, you know.

Walker Bird [00:23:19]:
Yeah, you can't do this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:20]:
And you said, don't raise your hand at me. And I'm like, raise my hand at you. And so that was really what surprised me was. And I didn't. And I. What I know about you is that was real. You weren't doing that to manipulate me, right?

Walker Bird [00:23:40]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:40]:
And so I knew that it was. It was a. It was a real reaction. I could feel it in your body. I could see it on your face. And so. And then you went back into the laundry room, and then that's when I was. Came in and said, if I made you feel unsafe, I'm.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:57]:
You know, I'm sorry. I don't. I don't want to do things that trigger your trauma. And I didn't. I didn't mean to, but I'm very aware that that's what happened. And so. And so. And I was maintaining eye contact, obviously in no way intimidating, because that's not.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:16]:
That's not me. But it was really just like, I'm serious. Like, what I'm sharing with you is genuine, you know, but that reaction that you had to me using my hands to talk was what shifted, you know, me out of the frustrated place. I mean, I was. I was out of it mostly by the time you went downstairs, because I thought it was funny that you went in to plug in my charging cord again.

Walker Bird [00:24:47]:
Wasn't going to take from you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:48]:
I know. And you said that I'm not going to take. Oh, you're right. Because I said, babe, I was going to order another cord because now that I'm going to start doing the elliptical in the morning, I meant to order one, and I forgot. And you were like, if you order.

Walker Bird [00:25:01]:
That, that was the last thing that was said before going to sleep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:04]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:25:05]:
If you order that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:06]:
If you order that, I'm Going to throw it away. So I was like, well, whatever. So I knew you were doing all that you could to not leave, because the leaving is what you learned. It was your way of surviving. And so the reality is, I was proud of you that you stayed even if you couldn't have the conversation. And when you said that it's not that it, you know, it hurt me, you know, I'm not going to take from you. And I was like, you know, that's just not our relationship. And so I know that, you know, when you're saying some things like that, that you're not talking to me, that it's something else, that it's triggering something else.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:00]:
Because we do share. We give each other a lot. So, anyway, so, yeah, I laid there for a while. I fell asleep at some point. I don't remember.

Walker Bird [00:26:16]:
Yeah, I think I heard you snore. And I was like, of course she fell asleep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:19]:
Yeah. Right.

Walker Bird [00:26:29]:
You know, the. Are you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:31]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Walker Bird [00:26:32]:
Because they don't want to interrupt your process when you made the statement about I don't want to trigger your trauma, you know, in that moment, it felt condescending to me, like, oh, you're broken, honey. You know? Yeah. And I mean, part of that. I mean, it. It's like you can have two sides working once or 15, whatever. It's just like, part of me knew that you meant it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:05]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:27:05]:
But another part was just like, you know, oh, so I'm broken because I didn't like something you did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:12]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:27:13]:
You know, so, you know, part of what we haven't discussed is, you know, part of me was feeling like I was telling myself that when I tell you that I don't like something that you did, that you get angry, like, overly angry. And I don't know where that came from, you know, But I. In the midst of it all, I was just like, you know, So I can't tell you that I don't like something you did now in a more productive, less tonal way, maybe. But anyway, that's there, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:09]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:28:09]:
And I don't understand. Understand it other than it's something from the past is what I think. Or maybe you don't like it when I. But I don't criticize you very often.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:23]:
No, it's the tone. I don't care if you give me feedback about something that I did. No, it's really. It is the. It's facial expressions.

Walker Bird [00:28:32]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:32]:
And tone of voice. For sure.

Walker Bird [00:28:34]:
Apparently, I use a lot of facial expression when I'm dissatisfied and you really pick up on it more than I. I mean, it's not like I'm trying to speak, squeeze my face a particular way. It just happens.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:46]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:28:46]:
No, it's a big deal, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:47]:
It's very. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you come up to me and you're like, hey, babe, I. That. I don't. I don't like it when you do that. I'm like, okay. Like, it's not a big deal.

Walker Bird [00:28:59]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:00]:
But the facial expressions and the tone, you know, for me, you know, it's. I mean, it's interesting because when I think, what is it? Some of it is, you know, feeling not seen. I work hard, you know, and I am thoughtful and I am generous. And so when, you know, you were so upset about the cord. I mean, I literally was just like, I was going to buy one, and I just didn't, you know, like, there was just a busy week, and it was. And so it was like you not being able to see me, you know, I think is really difficult for me. Yeah. Like, you're accusing me of, you know, taking from you that I didn't do it perfectly.

Walker Bird [00:29:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:56]:
That I wasn't. I wasn't trying hard enough or thoughtful enough. And so that's really what's.

Walker Bird [00:30:04]:
I think that's all me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:06]:
Oh, no. Yeah, for sure. I think that's my story. Yeah. So. Because I don't get upset often. And so, you know, for me, it is that peace. I don't have any, you know, doubt even just, you know, what happened earlier, you know, in the day, just processing through my own, you know, stuff and story, you know, tired.

Walker Bird [00:30:30]:
Yeah. You know, therapy is exhausting. Or can be.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:34]:
Can be. Yeah. Contributing to that.

Walker Bird [00:30:39]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:42]:
Yeah. So I think it's a mixture. Yeah. But I think a lot of it's, you know, that you're. You don't see me. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:49]:
In those moments.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:50]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:30:50]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:51]:
Sure. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:30:53]:
Yeah, yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:30:54]:
I'm gonna work as hard as I can to be a good partner, and it's not going to be enough. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:09]:
All over phone court. So silly, the whole thing, you know, But.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:17]:
But it's not.

Walker Bird [00:31:18]:
Well, I think there. I mean, there's more for me, and I touched on it with you, but I want to talk about that. Okay. To keep doing it. So. You know how badly I've wanted a home. Right. And it goes back to childhood.

Walker Bird [00:31:34]:
It's like when we do retreats. One of my favorite parts is, I always say, is coming in after the firewalk and you've made cookies or brownies for everybody. And by then, you know, everybody's been growing closer the first two nights, but that event, like, breaks the, you know, the ice for sure. And then everybody's talk about the experience and then they're talking about, you know, personal things and they get out the coloring books and they're chit chatting. And so I like to linger outside, making sure the fire's out, but also just love that part. And it's something that I've wanted since I was a kid. And I don't, you know, there were times, like at my grandmother's house, that sort of thing, but not at my home. And so.

Walker Bird [00:32:32]:
And this is hard. And I, We've talked about it in different contexts, but what I told you the other day was, you know, there's just, I, I, I don't get to be at your house all the time. Right. And, you know, I was part of it for a while. We live together, and then one of your children and I don't get along. Right. It was hard. It was hard in a lot of ways because they had really loved me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:34]:
Mm.

Walker Bird [00:33:36]:
And we'd done things together, that sort of stuff. And, you know, a lot. Taught them to ride a bike, taught. I taught them to swim. And I was able to, to get through to them, you know, and then that had faded off. You know, there were. And part of it was my fault. Part of it is other circumstances.

Walker Bird [00:34:05]:
But one of the things in moving in was I needed some, you know, space because the other house you had was too small. And I had a lot going on. You know, my life was turned upside down. Daughter at that point was not happy with me. I was being blamed for my own divorce and just very unsettled and alone. And I lived in. Shoot. I don't know how many places have I lived in.

Walker Bird [00:34:37]:
Six years, seven years, six or seven different moves. So there's a lot of unsettledness around the home piece for me, and that's been even recent, me saying, I need a home. You know, the Taurus in me is just like, you need all. There's just a whole lot. Why a phone plug or phone charging cord could result in such a, you know, such a reaction. And so, you know, because we don't get along, I'm, I am excluded from some family things, and sometimes they are excluded from some family things if you've invited me. But normally, and, and it's, this is your child, so I understand the choices that you have to make. Even though you love me, it doesn't make it less hurtful sometimes.

Walker Bird [00:35:54]:
But I felt like I had, you know, I've come a long way in that process, worked really hard not to be reactive. I mean, there's still some reaction, but so much less. And thought that that was, you know, that I had been able to take most of the energy off that, but. But it's not true. It's not true is the fact. And so it's just like the. The one little constant over the last two years, you know, because the schedule was always changing. It's like, well, it's going to be Friday to Monday.

Walker Bird [00:36:39]:
And then. Well, no, it's going to be, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. And then it just kept changing, kept changing, kept changing. And, you know, that took a lot of work on my part to just finally just say, okay, whatever, but it felt like having to live at somebody else's whim, you know, and in a way, it's true, but I feel like I've done a really good job of just understanding. Listen, if I want to stay in relationship with this woman that I adore, then those are things that I need to learn to handle. Well, of course that's what happened, you know, and just let it go and not be so worked up, but to be grateful for the time that I get. But anyway, that little cord in the wall for two years was like, I don't know why that's such a big deal. And I hadn't thought about it, but I recognized afterwards why I cared so much, you know, and then it's gone, you know, And I.

Walker Bird [00:37:58]:
I thought your child had taken it at first, which was part of the trigger. Right. Not having a safe space. So there's just all that. And I didn't even. You know, I've been working on it today with my own therapist. Right. And so a lot of that stuff came back up, and I.

Walker Bird [00:38:20]:
There was emotion around it still, like, heavy. Right in here. I could feel it in my heart. And, you know, it's just like, we do so well together, and our energy's great. We do great work together. We do great projects together. We laugh a lot, you know, and I love you, but that part still hurts me. And there's nothing really that you can do about it.

Walker Bird [00:39:02]:
And so I just. I wanted to share that process with you and also to just say that it's still there. It just feels like, you know, we're so great in so many ways, but we're pulling this weight of that severed relationship, you know, between me and your child.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:23]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:39:24]:
And so we're lugging that along. And I thought well, it's. You know, I don't know. I think part of it is sweeping that under the rug. Well, let's hope for the best, you know, And I don't. They're just. We haven't come up with a solution. So in any event.

Walker Bird [00:39:47]:
And I don't know that there needs to be a solution. I mean, that was one of the things that I was working on with my therapist today, which is, listen, you know, remember, we're talking about recognizing emotions and allowing without jumping to a solution. But I think we have to be careful, too, not to just sweep it under the rug in the allowing process. You know, that's like. You think you're headed down that road, but actually, you know, like following the Google map, all of a sudden you're on the wrong street. So I'm sorry if I'm hurting you in the process of telling my truth, but that's true.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:29]:
Why do you think it hurts?

Walker Bird [00:40:38]:
It's just. I don't know if it's an assumption or it's an intuition. I think a feeling of helplessness, probably.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:52]:
I think I used to feel helpless.

Walker Bird [00:40:58]:
How about I don't guess. You tell me?

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:09]:
I understand how complex we are. Your story, their story. And I don't mean the rupture. I mean the bigger context of our lives and relationship. And I think it's sad. I think that you're both missing out. I mean, I'm just telling you what I think. I think you're both stubborn and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:01]:
And I don't. I mean, I'm hopeful for repair. I still believe that repair will happen. And I know there's nothing I can do about it, that's for sure. I know it's up to you and them. I know you're both really great people, and I understand the survival piece that came up for both of you. I'm really proud of the other kids for figuring out what they needed for themselves, because I know for them, it's a really tricky place because they love you and they love their sibling, too. So the impact has been, you know, significant.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:28]:
And there for sure, used to be a lot of, how can I fix this? But I don't think I have that energy as much as I believe you will repair. In what way? I don't know. When? I don't know. But, you know, I know there's, you know, we've also recently. Sorry, I need to blow my nose.

Walker Bird [00:44:07]:
We're getting real now, as if we weren't already.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:15]:
Right? Right. You know, but there's also some big family Events coming up that are, you know, outside of just, you know, a birthday or, you know, Christmas or whatever. And we've got some big weddings coming up. One next month and one next year. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:44:41]:
A niece of yours that I really, really like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you'll both be there and you'll both figure it out.

Walker Bird [00:44:49]:
Yeah, I don't think so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:51]:
Yeah. And that's what I mean.

Walker Bird [00:44:53]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:53]:
That, that said that that's the choice that you're going to make.

Walker Bird [00:44:56]:
Yeah. And we'll talk about it because I've been clear. Oh, I know. I know that you said. Well, it's just you're gonna have to deal with it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:10]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:11]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:14]:
And I know it's hard.

Walker Bird [00:45:16]:
Yeah. I just, you know, I picture what that looks like and it looks like me sitting, you know, half a room away somewhere by myself because they will want to be with you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:32]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:45:33]:
And with all of your family and I love your family. I enjoy being around them and visiting, etc, but I see that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:46]:
Well. And to me it doesn't have to be that what you picture in your head. It can be something else.

Walker Bird [00:45:53]:
Yeah. What do you imagine?

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:55]:
I don't know. Talking to my niece and asking her. Because it's not that she doesn't know, so. But what I know is it's her day.

Walker Bird [00:46:12]:
Yeah. And no, nothing drama from my side is going to interrupt that for sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:17]:
And no drama from either side. No, I. I mean, the reality is, whether it's realistic or not, I just expect. Expect everybody to be an adult and figure it out and know it's going to be hard and uncomfortable and do it anyway because that's what we do. We don't have to. It's a choice. It's just my expectation is what I'm saying.

Walker Bird [00:46:48]:
Yeah. I mean, you had said it a few weeks ago. I think it's just kind of an offhand way and I guess. Yeah. I just swept it under the rug.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:04]:
Yeah. I just try to be clear. I mean, you can choose what you want. And when I say that, I don't mean I'm giving you permission. I'm just saying choose what you want. That's just what my expectation is. So. But there's no consequence for that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:25]:
There's no punishment. If you choose to not come, there's no punishment. I'll be sad, disappointed. But there isn't that other than my emotional experience, there is no threat. I don't need you to do anything. It's just I'm being clear about what I want. So. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:54]:
And you both have Your own choice. But I think the whole thing said. But I also understand.

Walker Bird [00:48:07]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:11]:
Relationship is complex. Step families are complex always. It's hard to blend families without there being something that gets in the way.

Walker Bird [00:48:40]:
True.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:43]:
Yeah. And I didn't have that growing up, but I know you did.

Walker Bird [00:48:48]:
Yeah. Each parent married four times.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:50]:
Yeah. And you had a lot of half siblings. Did you have step siblings, too, or just all half siblings? What?

Walker Bird [00:49:03]:
I'm just trying to think that one through.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:06]:
Oh, you did have step siblings, didn't you?

Walker Bird [00:49:08]:
No, they're all half siblings. And other than. My dad's last wife had a daughter, but, you know, we were both grown and out of the house, so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:17]:
Oh, okay. I was. There was.

Walker Bird [00:49:19]:
Oh, I did, actually. Yeah. The. My first stepfather, the one who killed himself in the front yard, he had two boys and a girl.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:30]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:49:30]:
And the boys lived with us for a while. Yeah, I loved them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:34]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:49:37]:
We got some trouble together as kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was hard, you know, I mean, he was. Had mental illness, obviously.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:54]:
I was thinking.

Walker Bird [00:49:55]:
But I loved him.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:56]:
Yeah, I know you did. I was thinking that maybe it was a half sibling, but I thought there was one of your stepmoms that, like, you guys, they had their own separate refrigerator or something where you guys couldn't.

Walker Bird [00:50:10]:
Eat food out of those Are my half siblings.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:13]:
Oh, okay. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:50:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't have a really good experience with step parents.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:22]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:50:22]:
You know, was pretty ugly, actually.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:25]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:50:26]:
On both sides. Really bad. Yeah. And so, you know, it's been important to me to try to be as kind as I can, but I also recognize everything that I was going through, needing, you know, a safe space and, you know, kids not in my bed, you know, and your child still needed that. And so me, trying to create safety for myself, was threatening them to take their mom away. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:08]:
It was threatening to them. Well, yeah, to that one, I think.

Walker Bird [00:51:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:12]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:51:12]:
Yeah. Well, the others didn't need that anymore, for the most part.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:17]:
Yeah. And they had a lot going on in their, you know, dad's life at the time.

Walker Bird [00:51:22]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:23]:
That was, you know, I would say, creating even another layer of not feeling safe or not, like, where's my place? And all of this that's happening.

Walker Bird [00:51:35]:
Yeah. And then, I mean, that impacted, too, because we had, I thought, a really nice relationship.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:44]:
You did?

Walker Bird [00:51:45]:
Yeah, I was walkie talkie.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:51:48]:
You know, and I remember you looking at me one time saying, I think they like you better than they like me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:51:56]:
And then it turned and changed, and there was, like, it was early, you know, Puberty, teenage years coming on. I mean, there was a whole storm of events associated with. With it. Not just, you know, I need a space where I can. You know, the bedroom needs to be our space.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:15]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:16]:
But that still created trauma.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:19]:
Sure. And Covid. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:21]:
12 years coven on top of all of us. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:24]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:25]:
So. Yeah, it's just that's. It's hurts me that I wasn't able to be more sensitive and. And have a conversation, you know, maybe work that out somehow better than I did. But also that we had been so close and then I was evil.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:53]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:57]:
You know, it's. It's. You know, but we've talked about it, too. It's still the same. There's, like, you try to be. Even if you're trying to be a really good stepparent or surrogate, whatever you want to call it, you know, serve in that role. Just love kids. There's a loyalty piece that most of the time, I think creates a barrier, you know? And your other kids, I love, love, love them.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:31]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:33]:
And still I sometimes get hurt just because of the loyalty piece. And I think it's happened with you, too, right? And my daughter.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:41]:
Oh, sure, sure. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:44]:
You know, and it's. I get it, but. Doesn't make it any easier. It just is, um. I don't know how we reconcile it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:54]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:55]:
Time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:57]:
Time and effort. I mean, truth. Well, I think effort mostly. Keep doing our own work. Keep trying to understand ourselves and others better. Time. Emotional maturity. I mean, I think, you know, perspective.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:13]:
I mean, we just. We don't have a lot of perspective. I mean. I mean, I just think until our mid-20s, you know, there's, you know, our brain. There are certain aspects of our brain that just don't all come together. And I'm not talking about. I think brain development ends at 25. I don't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:32]:
I'm just saying that mid-20s, things start making more sense to us. So whatever that's about. Yeah. And so I remain hopeful.

Walker Bird [00:54:51]:
Thanks for having the conversation and for sitting with it, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:57]:
It's important. It's important for me to practice just allowing it instead of trying to have the fix.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:07]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:07]:
Doesn't mean that I don't want the fix, but I will try very hard to recognize that emotional reaction. If there's. Let's say, there's some other thing that seems to be an anchor that I didn't realize was an anchor.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:26]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:55:26]:
Maybe it's the basket next to my side of the bed. Hell, I don't know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:31]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:34]:
But to try to keep you in mind, you know, see you, like you ask. And to say it better, I mean, if it irritates me or I don't like something, I need to be able to tell you that too. And that part, I think is another piece for me to be working on, which is, you know, female anchor and how I respond, you know, can respond to it in a better way. But any. What I'm trying to say is I am sorry that I use the tone and. And I'm sorry that I hurt you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:08]:
Thanks, babe. I'm sorry that we lost an evening.

Walker Bird [00:56:14]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:15]:
Yeah. And I know that we're growing from it too, because it's important. I know it's important to me. I believe it's important to you that we have as healthy a relationship as we can. And this is how it happens. We just keep stepping in. So thanks for wanting to talk about it, Being brave again. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:56:45]:
Well, thank you for being brave too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:49]:
I love you.

Walker Bird [00:56:49]:
Yeah. The anxiety that you felt, you know, when I said, do you want to talk about that? It does take courage.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:59]:
It does.

Walker Bird [00:57:00]:
It's. What's. It's scary that, you know, will this devolve into more of the same? Will the other person abandon me? You know, those things? I mean, that is not on the top of my. But it could have been.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:15]:
Oh, sure. It would have been in the past four years ago.

Walker Bird [00:57:19]:
Five years ago.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:20]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:20]:
Five years ago. Yeah. Absolutely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:23]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:24]:
And five years ago, I'd have kept going with my wet laundry.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:28]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So thank you again.

Walker Bird [00:57:38]:
Well, I'm glad I stayed, but, man, it was hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:43]:
Yeah. But it's so good because that's how we break our patterns. You know, we give our body a different experience. Right.

Walker Bird [00:57:51]:
Well, I can tell you that I never ran before. I would just disappear. And so that's something new in our relationship. I mean, it's not new to our relationship, but it's new for me in relationship.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:08]:
Sure. It makes sense to me.

Walker Bird [00:58:11]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:14]:
I think, you know, you can go.

Walker Bird [00:58:19]:
Yeah. I don't know. That's probably a whole other episode. All right. That's all I can do tonight. I love you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:29]:
I love you too, babe.

Walker Bird [00:58:31]:
We are so excited about sharing with you our new retreat. Becoming Unshakeable: From Self-Doubt to Daring.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:39]:
Yeah, we love doing retreats. It's a lot of fun. We really enjoy that group in person process. Everything that Walker and I create is something that we do with a lot of intention. Every retreat we do is a new retreat. We don't repeat retreats. And so it's always an adventure for us in creating the next one based off where he and I are and our own personal growth journey.

Walker Bird [00:59:08]:
Yeah. We look forward to holding space for you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:10]:
Yeah. We hope you'll consider joining us. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.