My Daughter Called Me "Bye Bye": Overcoming Parenting Stress

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:00]:
Before we dive into today's episode, we want to introduce you to a podcast that we think you're going to love. It's called Talking to Teens with Andy Earle. If you're enjoying our conversations about relationships and personal growth, Talking to Teens is like the parenting version. It's insightful, thought provoking, and full of real, actionable advice. I have enjoyed listening to the episodes that I have. It's been the last week, you know, that I've been listening to several episodes, and I really have enjoyed it. I thought this is good, actionable advice. So what I also have loved is that Andy brings in top experts in psychology, communication, adolescent development, to help parents navigate the terrain of raising teens through all of our stages of development that we go through when we are teenagers.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:00]:
But it. It wasn't heavy or confusing. I really felt like the information was very relatable and practical. And so I think all of us at some point struggle to relate to our teens, connecting with them, having hard conversations, or just understanding what's really going on for them. So I think that this is a great podcast that is worth spending your time. They're also the ones I've listened to anyway, have been shorter - 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And so I would say it is worth the time to check out Talking to Teens with Andy Earle on wherever you listen to podcasts.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:46]:
Okay, back to our show.

Walker Bird [00:01:54]:
My Inner Knowing, empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural abilities to navigate life each day. By sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path. Hello.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:25]:
Hello. How are you?

Walker Bird [00:02:27]:
I'm good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:28]:
Good, good.

Walker Bird [00:02:29]:
I'm good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:30]:
Tell me how good you are.

Walker Bird [00:02:34]:
Well, baby.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:38]:
That good. That good. Yay.

Walker Bird [00:02:40]:
You're still with me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:42]:
I am, yeah.

Walker Bird [00:02:45]:
Playfulness.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:46]:
Yeah, playfulness.

Walker Bird [00:02:49]:
You know, I had work out of town and took an extra couple of days to take care of myself, and it was good. Yeah, it's a little hard to get back in swing, especially with time change, but anyway, I feel pretty good. And it's beautiful. Sunny spring day. I just saw Robin as I was walking over, so. Yay. And we made progress on a. I made progress on a project that we started at your house before Christmas.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:24]:
Oh, yeah. Bathroom remodel.

Walker Bird [00:03:26]:
Yeah. And that felt really good.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:29]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:03:30]:
It's like heart language, right? What do they call it? Love language.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:38]:
Oh. Oh. Acts of service. Yeah, yeah. Acts of service.

Walker Bird [00:03:41]:
So you were cooking me meals for the week and I was fixing bathroom stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:46]:
Yeah. Yay.

Walker Bird [00:03:47]:
Yeah. And I feel good about that. I like it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. I grouted my first floor. I felt good about that.

Walker Bird [00:03:54]:
Oh, that's right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:03:55]:
You did. Sorry.

Walker Bird [00:03:56]:
Well, I grouted a floor. Right? No, I wasn't there when you did it, though.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:03]:
Yeah, no, what I was thinking about was just that sense of accomplishment. Right. Of doing something I hadn't done before. And also, like, this is. I am sure the people that do this regularly would be. Have been much more efficient.

Walker Bird [00:04:19]:
Well, you know how long it took me to get the drywall patch in behind the light fixture? Okay. It's just because, you know, when I. We took the old light fixture off somebody, instead of having the wire hooked to a box, it was just threaded behind drywall and stuck through. Through a hole.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:38]:
Right. It wasn't secure.

Walker Bird [00:04:40]:
Yeah. And they just put a metal plate with a bunch of plat, you know, drywall screws in it that was hanging there. I can't believe the light fixture wasn't just. But anyway, one of those little surpr. We wondered why the guys who put in the shower didn't install the light. And now I know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:54]:
Now I know.

Walker Bird [00:04:55]:
Because they pulled that and they're like, that'll take days.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:58]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:05:00]:
And it did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:01]:
And it did. But it's done.

Walker Bird [00:05:04]:
It's done. And it's going to look great. Last bit of sanding and we're off to the races. But I digress because we have things to talk about.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:11]:
We do. We do. So parenting in our relationships with our children.

Walker Bird [00:05:21]:
Just a little topic.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:22]:
Yeah. A little topic that could have, I don't know, 632 episodes. And. And we will be doing more topics around it. We will be doing more topics around it because a few months ago, we put a question out there for people if there was. What is the conversation? I don't remember exactly, but you wish a parent. A conversation that you wish your parents had had with you.

Walker Bird [00:05:52]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:52]:
Right. And we got a lot of feedback online, direct messaging, text messages. It was a lot.

Walker Bird [00:05:59]:
Yeah. People had. It was a lot.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:01]:
It was a lot. Yeah. And so we will be diving into that. We'll start diving into those different topics around parenting. And again, not just young children, but all ages of children and really mostly adult children.

Walker Bird [00:06:19]:
Yeah. Way out of the nest.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:21]:
Right, right. Way out of the nest.

Walker Bird [00:06:22]:
Like people in their 50s, right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:24]:
60S, 70s, I think, too. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So this is more in general conversation about parenting, including young children and overcoming parenting. Stress. So if you think back to yourself as a young parent, can you kind of walk us through whether the, whether the tools that you tried to implement when you were young were effective or not or healthy or not? What do you feel like were the things that you did to try to help yourself with the stress of parenting over the years?

Walker Bird [00:07:17]:
Oh, for when she was young.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:20]:
Yeah. All the way through. Like, you know, what did you do when she was young? And just what did you notice about the best you did to care for yourself around the stress of parenting?

Walker Bird [00:07:32]:
I honestly, I'm at a loss for what I did to take care of myself.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:36]:
Okay. Okay.

Walker Bird [00:07:38]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:07:39]:
Okay. That's okay. You got big eyes. No.

Walker Bird [00:07:42]:
Well, I'm not. I'm just, just as shocking. But I'm not the only person. You know, I was working crazy hours, but I was, I liked getting up when she needed things in the night or was crying. You know, I was the comforter and the burping, back patter and you know, wake up at. She was. Libby was just an awesome baby. Not colicky or anything, but I still had to get up.

Walker Bird [00:08:12]:
You know, typically she might, after the first month or so, she'd sleep almost through the night, but she'd wake up early because she was like an 8:30 girl always.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:24]:
Maybe 8. So she'd be ready to go at 4:30 or so.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:29]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:30]:
But anyway, you know, I tried just doing fun activities with her. That was kind of my thing because I worked so hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:43]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:08:43]:
But when she got to school age and she would come home from school, she and I would immediately, because I work for myself by then, take off and go do things together like go to the park or go see the donkeys at the, you know, at the little zoo. They had those sorts of things. Walk the dog, fly kites, those. I'm not, I'm talking about activities, not things I did to take care of myself because I just didn't do a very good job of it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:11]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:09:12]:
Whether it was work or her.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:15]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:09:16]:
So if we'd had more than one, who knows what would have happened? I'm guessing I would have found a way. I wouldn't have had a choice then but to take better care of myself from a parenting stress standpoint.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:29]:
Or not.

Walker Bird [00:09:31]:
Or not. I could have just melted down. I do remember learning to pause.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:41]:
Okay.

Walker Bird [00:09:42]:
You know, and if it was, you know, whatever it might be, if she was having a bad day and kicking and screaming and all that, you know, I take her to a room and say, you know, whether that was right or wrong as a parent. She'd go into a room and I. I would like close the door, but I'd be standing right outside, you know, because it's painful when your child is that upset, you know, and you're getting upset, you put in there. You know, maybe I was a little gruff. I don't remember, you know, and then I would stand out in the hallway and we had this teeny little owl, so. And it was just take a breath, try to calm. I had no idea about grounding at that point or meditation or anything, but. And then it would be painful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:39]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:10:42]:
To listen and not go in and try to. To fix.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:49]:
So what did you do? I'm not, again, healthy or unhealthy.

Walker Bird [00:10:54]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:54]:
When it was painful, what did you do to try to, I don't know, be okay?

Walker Bird [00:11:13]:
I don't know. I'm not being very helpful to people who are watching.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:23]:
I don't.

Walker Bird [00:11:23]:
I think I just struggled through it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:26]:
I don't know that that's true, babe. That you're not being helpful.

Walker Bird [00:11:29]:
I would wait until she, you know, calm down and then I would typically go in and pick her up and hold her, you know, and we talk about it doing the best that I knew how to do as far as talking about it. But, you know, honey, are you calm now? You know, and then whatever the issue that brought it on might have been or nothing at all. You know, sometimes kids just go crazy because they're tired or whatever it might be. They don't have the means to share it all with you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:02]:
Yeah. Well, what I feel like really, what you're indicating, and you've already said it clearly, which is it wasn't something you thought about.

Walker Bird [00:12:16]:
No.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:17]:
It wasn't something you were seeking tools around. You were surviving.

Walker Bird [00:12:31]:
Yeah. There just wasn't any support. There's nothing that I could talk with my dad about. I'm sure he very rarely if ever came and did anything with us like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:42]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:12:43]:
Or even really thought about it much. As long as he couldn't hear us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:12:48]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:12:50]:
I remember, you know, me and my wife would. We tried to do, you know, and it just wasn't consistent enough. You know, just parents night out, date night. And I'm sure we did it for a while, but not like we should have.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:07]:
Not like what if might have been.

Walker Bird [00:13:09]:
Helpful to have a break with somebody that we, you know, knew she'd be safe with and just have a break from that being the sole focus of everything we were doing until after 8:30 at night.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:25]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:13:26]:
You know, and then There just weren't enough hours in the day.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:30]:
Yeah. So if you go back to what?

Walker Bird [00:13:35]:
Just my schedule. I mean, it wasn't at first, you know, but there was this huge case I'd been working on for, like, four years that was heated up and it was insane. But my schedule was to get to work at 7, and I would work until, I think, 6. I'd come home for maybe an hour to two hours. Yeah. Be back at work by 8, work till midnight, come back again. And so it's painful to remember that time, you know, because she was always. It was the best part of my day, was walking in the front door because she, you know, just little.

Walker Bird [00:14:25]:
She'd be, you know, plugging in there, ready to see me, and it's, dad, dad. And she'd run, mom, Mom, Dad's home. It was the greatest ever, you know, and we'd turn on Tom Petty and dance around the living room, that sort of stuff, because we had a big mirrored credenza or whatever in there. And she loved to, you know, have me, you know, swing her in close while we were dancing. And we'd laugh. I mean, there was lots of sweet little moments. But I was gone a lot.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:54]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:14:54]:
And it ended up. It got so bad that she called me bye bye.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:01]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:02]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:03]:
That would be hard. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Walker Bird [00:15:09]:
No, it's. You know, and he just. I was a young man, and so you. I mean, 27, 28, 29, you don't recognize what you're doing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:22]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:23]:
You know, and then when somebody you love that much, she didn't have a lot of words, but she would hear bye bye from me. That was how she was identifying me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:35]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:36]:
And there was. It was heartbreaking and it still is. And I didn't think that there was any way out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:15:48]:
You know, I was trying to provide for the family, talk about that provider role thing and. And do it all. And, I mean, not doing a very great job of any of it, apparently. I learned a lot about being a lawyer. So 30 years later, that's paying off now, but it sure was painful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:15]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:16:16]:
So why don't we turn it to you? And maybe you learned a lot of things along the way and were able to do it better. I mean, were there ways that you took care of yourself and you had four.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:35]:
I want to. I don't want to just skip over.

Walker Bird [00:16:41]:
I'm not done yet.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:42]:
Well, what. What you were just saying about. I learned to be a good lawyer. Right, you studied for that. You practiced over and over and over. Right.

Walker Bird [00:17:04]:
I did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:06]:
And to me, whatever it is that we're going to do in life requires practice, experimentation over and over and over. Whether it is being a lawyer, parenting, eating healthy. I mean, it just. It doesn't matter. We want it often to be something that should come easy to us or be natural, whether it's based off our, you know, the stories we were told about ourselves growing up or our intelligence or education. And it's just not that simple. And so for me, it's also a recognition for you that being a really good attorney is because of the amount of time that you spent. But we're not taught, encouraged, or explained to that parenting isn't different and that for some reason, just being a parent should teach us.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:06]:
Like, it'll just come. Right? I mean, could you imagine if you had just walked into a courtroom with no education, no training, and then just started trying to practice law?

Walker Bird [00:18:21]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:22]:
That's ridiculous. Right? But we expect that around parenting.

Walker Bird [00:18:28]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:28]:
You have a child, you're a parent, and you should just figure it out.

Walker Bird [00:18:37]:
It's crazy to me. The. We just didn't get a lot of, you know, our parents didn't. And this is my experience. I don't know what my wife's experience was, but I don't think we got a lot of help. And I don't mean them coming to take care of things. I just mean advice. Sure, how do you do this? But I guessing that's not uncommon because they didn't know, other than, you know, the old school way that I was brought up.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:12]:
Sure, sure, I remember. And this wasn't parenting, but it was marriage. Not too long after I got married, and I was 21 when I got married. I remember that we got into a fight about something. Could not tell you what it was about. And I remember leaving because I did not know what was going on. I did not know what to do. I did not understand.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:41]:
And I went home and I was telling my parents and they were like, not. Not with any attitude or anger, but it was very matter of fact. You're married now. Figure it out.

Walker Bird [00:19:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:56]:
And I was like, okay. Like, somehow that made sense.

Walker Bird [00:20:02]:
It's like being taught how to swim by somebody throwing you in the freaking pool. God.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:08]:
And so really what happened was, you know, like, my parents had this expectation. They told me this is the expectation. And I was like, well, okay, then I guess that's what I have to do. I just have to figure it out. And so, you know, for me, it didn't stop there. But I do remember years later, Thinking my parents didn't know what to tell me, that I don't know that it was something they ever figured out. Right. And so for me, at some point along the way, I recognized that asking people questions, volunteering at the, you know, church nursery, reading books, that they were helpful to me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:06]:
Someone, I think when I was pregnant with my oldest, pretty sure gave me a book called what to Expect when youn're Expecting.

Walker Bird [00:21:21]:
Yeah, I remember that book.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:23]:
And I remember reading it and reading it. I mean, to me it was just like so much information. I didn't know. It was amazing. And that really started, you know, my curiosity. But I don't think I did anything around the stress of parenting for a long time because I. It was never modeled to me for sure. And yes, we did just pause the podcast for a moment so that I could shut the.

Theresa Hubbard [00:21:58]:
The blind, which we really were enjoying having open because it's 70 degrees outside today. But we recognized that the video was going. The camera autofocus was struggling a bit. So anyway, so trying to remember to pick up where I was talking.

Walker Bird [00:22:21]:
Modeling.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:24]:
Modeling.

Walker Bird [00:22:25]:
You didn't have anybody modeling for you, right?

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:28]:
I didn't have anybody modeling being a parent intentionally. I did not have that for sure.

Walker Bird [00:22:34]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:35]:
And it was really just demonstrated by action. It wasn't right. Like, no one was explaining to me how to take care of myself or that I needed to take care of myself. It was just an expectation. So I feel like the majority of it was just surviving. I don't really feel like I knew anything about overcoming stress until I really started working on myself.

Walker Bird [00:23:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:13]:
And going to therapy, having people suggest different things. I didn't ever think I could take a break. I remember when I started taking breaks, you know, like going on retreat, which is really what I did. I was always like, if I'm going to be away, it has to have a purpose. It wasn't. I. I think I once took a break, took care of myself. I'm trying to remember how old I was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:58]:
I think 20 years ago, I took a trip by myself. I had never taken a trip by myself. I just know that I needed to get away. But I didn't think about it as self care. I thought about it as survival. And so I didn't know how to do it on the daily. And while I think that that was really helpful in me learning that I needed to have breaks, I still don't. I think it took years for me to really understand the importance of stepping away.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:40]:
So whether as a parent or, you know, just growing for Me having a break, you know, became, I don't know, more intentional. And so when I think about overcoming stress as a parent now, it has been a lot of reading, a lot of conversation, a lot of observation. Like I'm always watching, you know, other people parent and I am aware that I'm assessing, is that something that I could use with my kids? If I did, how would I use that? What might the response be that would not work with one of my kids? You know, so there. So a lot of observation. I think I learned a lot too because I was so curious from movies and TV shows that I watched. Like I didn't always just assume that it was good. I would be like, oh, that wasn't a very good example or I don't think I'd like that as a child. And so for me it was just a lot of evaluation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:00]:
And man, I can look back so easy and think about the times that I didn't know how to regulate myself very well, that I, instead of releasing my energy in other ways, I took it out on my kids. The helplessness piece. I mean there were some things that, that really didn't bother me that you know, like if something got broken or you know, marked on or whatever, like that stuff wasn't like a trigger for me really. My stuff was more like danger or being someplace on time. Those really were the things that I struggled with. And so it was learning like having the awareness that those were my triggers I think was like first, like I had to recognize that there were things that made me reactive because there were plenty of things that didn't make me reactive. And then how do I better care for myself once I had that awareness? And so some of the overcoming stress was preparing the night before instead of asking Cameron what he wanted to wear in the morning. Because putting it out for him was not a solution.

Walker Bird [00:27:34]:
He liked his duds, didn't he?

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:36]:
He did, he did, he did.

Walker Bird [00:27:39]:
I've seen the pictures. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:42]:
And all of my kids are strong willed, every one of them. I didn't get one, I got four, which was fine. I was too. So I get it and I respected it. And I never wanted to break my kids spirit. So for Cameron it would be asking him the night before, what do you want to wear tomorrow? And Cameron wasn't someone that changed his mind a hundred times. He was pretty clear. And so it was really just like learning who my child was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:14]:
That I feel like was the most helpful thing for me in overcoming stress as a parent.

Walker Bird [00:28:21]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:22]:
It wasn't that I needed to learn this skill. And that was going to work for all four of my kids. Not true. But if I could really pay attention to who my child was and understand what was important to them as best I could for me, then I could figure out the ways to support them best for their success. It doesn't mean it worked all the time, but it really was learning who each one of them was that was most helpful for me in not feeling so stressed as a parent. And I don't think I'm any different now with them. Even though they range 17 to 30, you know, I really engage with them in ways that I think speak to them the best. Again, not always what they need, but I'm always continuing to learn who they are.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:24]:
Yeah. What are you thinking?

Walker Bird [00:29:27]:
That is. It's nice to move into that territory. That if. I mean, I love my daughter and there were many things I did as a father that were great. She has good memories of. Of it, but I have memories probably that she doesn't have or hasn't. They haven't come up yet. And so just the thought of.

Walker Bird [00:29:53]:
And it's really great advice, you know, if you are looking at your child as a human being with their own personality whose brain is not fully developed and won't be right until they're in their mid-20s or older, and make it part of your role as a parent to learn who they are, what do you need instead of this is how it's going to be? Because that's how I was raised by my mom anyway. My dad was. I loved my dad, but he was an absentee. But my mom was a disciplinarian. And I didn't do the same things with Libby that my mom did because I just didn't. I mean, I'm sure there were a couple of times, but typically didn't freak out, lose my temper. But I. I did require behavior to be the way I wanted it.

Walker Bird [00:30:55]:
And I would give her three chances, and I would count them out strong enough that we'd get to three, you know, and. And then she'd have to go to a room. I did take her there. And if I could go back.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:14]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:15]:
To learn more about who she was and what do you need and, you know, what's happening. As best she can. Because they can't always express it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:23]:
No. Nor can we as adults.

Walker Bird [00:31:26]:
And so it's like this. Finding this balance between helping them chart a course. Right. And stifling their spirit. And luckily, Libby is so strong that I didn't stifle her sweet spirit.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:45]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:47]:
And there are other things that I taught her through that process that are really good because she's a good person, she's a hard worker. But I would definitely do take your advice, and it would have made things so much easier. I also think, you know, what comes to mind is that if you're doing it that way, it needs to be a team effort between the parents. If there's more than one parent in the household.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:12]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:32:13]:
When you get that, what. What are you thinking when I say it?

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:16]:
Yeah. I think it's helpful if we can see the experience of parenting, like everything else, as an experiment, and that if we're both working on the experiment. Right. We're much more likely to be successful. Right. Because we have different perspectives and different experiences. And, you know, we can offer so much more to our children if it's a team effort. You know, I think.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:51]:
I mean, one of the things that I talk to parents about is your child being able to hold multiple perspectives, and that be good and safe is one of the biggest gifts that you can give them. And so I'll give this example of, like, let's say that the parents are outside with one or more of their children, and they're laying in the grass, and they're looking up at the clouds, and they're playing the cloud game or whatever you call it, and one of the parents says, oh, look, there's a turtle. The other parent can respond in various ways, but the ones that come to mind and the ones I use it as an example are. The other parent could say, that's not a turtle. That's a dragon. Which is very different than saying, oh, I can't see a turtle, but I can see a dragon.

Walker Bird [00:33:44]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:45]:
Very different lessons that you're teaching your children. And so that's what comes to mind when you talk about it being a team effort.

Walker Bird [00:33:55]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:56]:
You know, not only can we offer our children multiple perspectives and that it's okay to have multiple perspectives, but also that our child has this, you know, the benefit, really, of having two parents who have lived their experiences, who have chosen to collaborate on this experiment of parenting.

Walker Bird [00:34:17]:
I think the collaborate word is a really important one, and I believe 100% about teaching multiple perspectives and that it shouldn't be. Well, this is how we handle every situation because it's not going to work anyway. But you have to be on the same team. In other words, you have a role and I have a role, but we're both heading in the same direction to that end of the field for the touchdown or however you want to, you know, say it. But I think it can happen. And I believe that this happened for me is that, you know, there were very different views and no communication to come to, you know, some common ground as parents.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:04]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:35:07]:
So it was the end. It in part destroyed the relationship between me and my wife.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:14]:
Yeah, I think that happens a lot, babe.

Walker Bird [00:35:16]:
We never, we just never could. We weren't mature enough to communicate well and to. And to respect each other, you know, and that just. It's. Talk about not modeling well for your child.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:38]:
Sure. You know, we've talked about this a little bit. I. We did in the. The essential skills course. You know, we're raised in our family, and some people find out through their friendships that their family isn't like other families. But sometimes we don't really understand that. And so we can come into marriage with, you know, my upbringing was fine, I'm fine, everything's fine.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:12]:
And then we have kids and it's like, well, I'm successful, I went to college, whatever, like, story we can tell ourselves. Right, right. And so how I was raised is the way I should raise my kids. And so we can have really strong opinions about parenting based off our family. Right, Right. Like it. Or the opposite of what we went through, but very strong opinions about what is right and what is wrong in raising our kids. It is an area I don't think we're very curious about, and I don't think we often take the children into consideration.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:57]:
You know, for me, when I think about, like my oldest son, he definitely got the most of my non. Intentional parenting. You know, like in my family, my. Probably because there were eight kids. I don't know if it would have been different if there was three or four, but I don't have a lot of recollection of like, structure around studying. Yeah, it was kind of like, you know, whatever. And so when I realized that Christopher was really smart, I was like, well, I don't really need to do anything because he's really smart. Come to find out later, not only was that not true, it was something that really caused him a significant amount of distress because I did not reinforce any type of structure around studying because I grew up in a house with no reinforcement around studying.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:03]:
I think there was an expectation relatively of grades, but it wasn't like heavy. And so I just. It wasn't something that I thought about or understood or respected until I, you know, until truthfully he got into high school. And studying was something he just didn't know how to do.

Walker Bird [00:38:25]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:26]:
And Then I was like, oh, so that recognition took a while for me. I think my second child, he. I don't know, had a more natural inclination of studying. Like, he just always is seeking out multiple perspectives and, you know, teaching himself. And I think my oldest son, that came more later, learning to teach himself. And then my younger kids definitely are more effective at that, but I'm still not great. Their dad does much better in regards to that, you know.

Walker Bird [00:39:08]:
Well, I think we can compliment each other's strengths too. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:11]:
Right. And I was fine. I didn't challenge that. I just did. Did not. Didn't witness it, didn't experience it, didn't understand it. And so that was something that I did start learning in my second marriage was, oh, there are skills he has, I do not have. But that required me to have an awareness of myself.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:34]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:39:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:35]:
Not to say I turned out fine. Why are you making them study? Right. That was not the attitude that I took.

Walker Bird [00:39:44]:
It's. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad. I just. I think, babe, that there's that. And if you want to take, you know, a really good piece of advice, you know, watch your child get to know.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:59]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [00:40:00]:
What's best for them, how do they respond to structured, you know, events. Structured studying time, that sort of thing, and feel your way through that, but with the recognition. I'm learning what works for you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:14]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:40:14]:
Not my way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:16]:
Right, right.

Walker Bird [00:40:17]:
Me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:17]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:40:20]:
And the other is with your partner. If you. If there is a partner in the parenting relationship. And I know I'm reiterating, but it's really that piece. It hurts my heart to even talk about it, but I think it's just so important that there be communication about it and mutual effort and not at odds with. Well, that's the wrong thing to do. But what's funny is I remember very vividly that my friend had a child way before I did. Right.

Walker Bird [00:40:57]:
And so he's early in the parenting process, and I didn't have kids, and so he would talk to me about it, and he had a disagreement with his wife about some aspect of what she was doing as a mother. And he just said she tore into him, you know, like pulling back a bloody stump. And it taught him not to interfere with her parenting.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:25]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:41:26]:
Because she was the mother and.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:28]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:41:29]:
You know, I just. It's. It's. That's rough. And I just. I think that if you want to create more parenting stress. Stress between the partners, then go continue down that type of road versus mutual respect. Some attempts to clear the air, and I guess sometimes there's not going to be a great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:52]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes there's not going to be a great.

Walker Bird [00:41:56]:
So what do parents do when there's just this diametrically opposed issue?

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:03]:
Oh. Kind of like anything else. Right. That, to me, is an indication of I am unwilling to change my story.

Walker Bird [00:42:12]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:12]:
Right. I have. I have attached my identity to whatever that belief is. Right. And I cannot consider another option. Yeah. And that's. I mean, that's really about our identity as a parent, you know, and so for me, you know, when I'm working with a parent who is really struggling, I'll say, you have a choice to make.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:38]:
What's most important to you? Being right or having a relationship with your child?

Walker Bird [00:42:45]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:46]:
Because you're thinking about this in the short term.

Walker Bird [00:42:49]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:49]:
I'm thinking about the long term, too.

Walker Bird [00:42:51]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:53]:
What are you going to choose? What is most important to you? Yeah, yeah. So we can have beliefs so attached to our identity. If I don't do it this way, then I'm a bad parent. If I don't do it this way, then I have failed. If I don't. If I don't. If I don't. If I don't.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:21]:
So it's not about the child.

Walker Bird [00:43:23]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:24]:
It's really about my story of who I am as a parent.

Walker Bird [00:43:30]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:31]:
That's not being a parent.

Walker Bird [00:43:35]:
But it's the most. Most of us got. Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:38]:
Yes. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:43:40]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:42]:
So educating yourself, constantly, observation, being in conversation, go to therapy. There's so many different resources out there that are available. You know, the. Oh, my gosh, different podcasts. You know, the. The podcast that we talked about at the beginning of this episode, you know, the talking to teens. And that was really helpful. You know, Andy actually found us, and I don't know all the details, but he reached out, having heard some of our podcast, and realized that what he's talking to about teens is similarly to how we talk about things, but ours is a more general, you know, topic.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:31]:
And so, you know, the reason that we, you know, shared Andy's podcast with everybody is because we feel like that level of curiosity. I mean, I. I don't know how many podcast episodes he's had, but, like, 400 with all these different authors and psychologists and speakers, and, I mean, it's just like, just expose yourself. You know, listen. What sounds like my child, what could I try? Right. If we can really see, you know, my opinion about this. But life as an experiment, and everything in life is an experiment as opposed to, I should know the answer or the result. You know, with no data.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:25]:
But I should know. Um, I think that that's really important. And then doing our work, that's the.

Walker Bird [00:45:32]:
Starting point, isn't it? If you want to be the best. Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:35]:
Breathing. Learning to breathe. Learning to pause.

Walker Bird [00:45:38]:
Recognizing triggers.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:39]:
Recognizing triggers. Taking care of ourselves, Taking a break. I mean, I just, I know I started talking about this earlier. It was so much effort for me to step away from the role as mother for a few days at a time to learn more about who I was, you know, the amount of time and energy, you know, organizing this and arranging that and making sure every single thing was covered. But I believe that if I had all four of my children in here and asked them, you know, do you think that time away that I had to work on myself and to learn, was, was that worth it for you? I can't imagine any one of them would be like, absolutely not. I think they'd be like, thank God. Yeah. Because they matured in that time too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:42]:
Right. They learned for a few days at a time, you know, how to be more independent. You know, they're all very self sufficient. They all can cook and bake. They all can fix things and take care of things and, you know, I mean, they all can.

Walker Bird [00:46:57]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:58]:
And if I had never stepped away, not even thinking about that long term, because I wasn't thinking about that long term. I just know that I needed as a parent to be okay. I had to learn to step away.

Walker Bird [00:47:12]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:12]:
And grow and give myself a break. I don't know that they would have developed those skills quite as well.

Walker Bird [00:47:19]:
Yeah. That process that you're talking about of how doing all the other things to be able to step away, I think is another important point. How important is it for if you have a co parent, for them to control the stress of parenting, be able to step into those, those roles?

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:40]:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think it's so much of it depends on the age of the kids and the needs of the kids. I mean, you know, my kids did not have serious health issues. Right. I mean, but initially I didn't even feel like I could ask.

Walker Bird [00:48:00]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:01]:
You know, I felt like it was an inconvenience. And so the people that I asked were my sisters and my mom.

Walker Bird [00:48:08]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:10]:
And. And they did. They were so great. And over time, it became not something I had to spend so much time doing or didn't even think about having to do. But yeah, it wasn't something that I considered asking for help. I think my partner had an expectation that I would take care of arranging all of wasn't something that he wasn't involved enough in the day to day that he could have even have done it without my very detailed email instructions.

Walker Bird [00:48:59]:
I wish we had one of those emails right now to look at who that was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:04]:
That would have been.

Walker Bird [00:49:07]:
Especially when you were first doing it. Right. Can you imagine what you wrote?

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:11]:
I don't even want to think about how much detail I put in.

Walker Bird [00:49:16]:
Oh my goodness.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:18]:
But again, better recognition over time that those emails with that kind of detail were not. Were not needed by me or him or them. That it did evolve. Like people adapted to it, to the process of it.

Walker Bird [00:49:34]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:36]:
And I remember, I think I said this on another episode. The first time I went on retreat, my oldest son was like, you know, where are you going? And I said on retreat. And he's like, why? And I said, because I'm trying to be the best mom that I can be. And I said, is there anything that. That I could work on while I'm gone? And he said, if they could teach you how to play video games, that'd be great because you are terrible. And I was. I could not play Mario Bros. For any.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:03]:
I died all the time. And that's what was important, you know, to him, you know, and of course I just left and said, I'll keep working on that. I don't think I'm any better today, 30 or 25 years later. But I think we have to be curious enough to find our way. Like, I don't think there is one way for us to work on the stress of being a parent. We all have such different circumstances, whatever the things might be that can get in our way of being present with our kids and knowing who our kids are again, I think if we can choose to see parenting like anything else, as an experiment, But I'm just learning in this process, not holding ourselves to some impossible standard, but also not saying it. They'll be fine. I don't think that's helpful either.

Walker Bird [00:51:07]:
So that's my dad.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:10]:
I know what happened.

Walker Bird [00:51:11]:
Or he wasn't even thinking about it. She said, see ya.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:14]:
Yeah, I don't know. Right. I'm sorry.

Walker Bird [00:51:18]:
No, it's okay. It's not out of really pain. Just is. It's. It's humorous at this end of the.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:26]:
Spectrum, but not when you were young.

Walker Bird [00:51:28]:
Oh no, it's very dramatic. But anyway, yeah, you know, I just. I keep going back to the couples aspect of this thing or partners aspect. And I think, you know, going back in time, you know, I don't. We were doing this approximately the same time period. But I'd never even heard about retreat. The most I'd ever heard of was the trial lawyers college, which would have been a really good thing if I'd done it. But that would have been three weeks.

Walker Bird [00:52:00]:
Yeah, we didn't take separate time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:04]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:52:05]:
But I think supporting one another, recognizing that just an afternoon of shopping or whatever doesn't cut the mustard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:12]:
No, not for long term gain.

Walker Bird [00:52:15]:
And it precludes the potential of two things. One, the parent who's leaving, trusting the other parent will do it well enough to the parent who is staying, gaining the confidence because you will be able to do it, to take care of things appropriately and not being criticized because you didn't do it the way the other parent would have done it when they get back from their. Their retreat or their trip or whatever it is. But a few days, I think really supportive by the parent who's staying and good in so many ways. But recognizing, hey, a few days would be really, really good at the appropriate age.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:03]:
Right, right. Yeah. Whatever that might be. Again, everybody's situation is so different.

Walker Bird [00:53:13]:
Well, yeah. Health conditions too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:15]:
Yeah. A lot of things to take into account. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, what, you know, came to mind when you said that about, you know, the afternoon shopping was it. To me it's not. It's not so much. Well, that's not true.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:33]:
Okay. I'm just trying to think how, I want to say this. If the stress of parenting is too much and we don't choose to see parenting as an experiment that we will continue to learn from as we try this and this and this over time. But it's an expectation that I'm doing it right or wrong. We will find things, whatever those things are, to help us cope. Shopping, drinking, exercising, reading. I mean, working. Like, I think we can put our energy into things that actually do make us feel better in the short term.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:33]:
But if we're not consciously, intentionally choosing to learn from being a parent and to again see it as something that we build skill around. All of those things can just be things we escape into. Yeah, right. Because maybe we're like, oh, drinking that glass of wine was really helpful. So then maybe I have three or four or five. Right. Or maybe I feel more competent at work. So I'm just going to work more because I don't feel so competent as a parent.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:09]:
That is too stressful for me. And so for me, anything can become an escape. So for me it is looking for. What am I learning in this process? Not to not Take a break. And by recognizing that as a short term solution. Am I working on a long term solution or I'm always just doing a short term solution. And so for me, making, building competency, reducing our stress over time in regards to parenting is knowing that it is a very intentional process where I'm incorporating both short term relief and long term relief.

Walker Bird [00:56:09]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:10]:
Does that make sense?

Walker Bird [00:56:12]:
Absolutely.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:13]:
Yeah. What are you thinking when I.

Walker Bird [00:56:16]:
What I'm thinking is that after doing divorce work as a lawyer for so many years and custody fights.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:26]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:56:27]:
What I always wanted to say was, sit down and let's have a talk. When you make decisions, make whatever decision is in the best interest of your child. Not necessarily you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:44]:
Yeah. Who do you think that people know how to do that? Make a decision in the best interest of their child?

Walker Bird [00:56:56]:
And do I think people know how to do it? Not very many.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:59]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:57:00]:
But it's a good perspective to have.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:03]:
It is a good perspective to have. The reason I don't think it happens very often because I think we are taught to not take our child's perspective into account or we do the opposite. We take their perspective into account all the time. Because again, that's like a reactive parenting. Right. And so we're not, again, we're not doing any of the long term work. Right. We're doing the short term work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:34]:
And so I think it's difficult because even if we're taking the child's perspective into account all the time, that's not really in the child's best interest.

Walker Bird [00:57:45]:
Yeah. The word perspective is a huge difference between the two.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:49]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:57:50]:
You still have to be a leader.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:53]:
Right. And how do we become a leader? Practice, practice and work on ourselves. We do it is, you know, we don't want it to be that. I think we just, you know, we continue to look for the simple solution. But healthy. Any part of our life isn't simple. It requires effort and learning. It's skill building.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:18]:
Practice, practice, practice, experiment. Experiment, Experiment.

Walker Bird [00:58:23]:
Yeah. And do your best and don't beat yourself up constantly. You know, the, the stress of parenting, I mean, what a crazy experience it is. And there's so much that's wrapped up around it. Just so much, so many layers, identity. And you know, even now, I just, even in this conversation, there were regrets that came up. And I know better than that. It's done, you know, But I do, I want to do it better when grandchildren come along.

Walker Bird [00:58:56]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:56]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:56]:
I think that's a lot easier too. But it's still important to have the same perspective of what we've been talking about. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:07]:
Anyway, long term, short term. Yeah. What is. How is this going to impact them? Short term and long term.

Walker Bird [00:59:13]:
Yeah. And when we mess up, because it is an experiment. Let it go as best you can. Just let it go and do your best.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:21]:
Yeah. I would say you have said in other episodes, and I will try again tomorrow.

Walker Bird [00:59:29]:
Yes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:29]:
Yes. Yeah. And to me, the try means effort. Not just tomorrow is another day.

Walker Bird [00:59:40]:
To.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:40]:
Do the same non. Intentional parenting.

Walker Bird [00:59:45]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:46]:
But I will learn, you know, again, you know, Even if it's 10 minutes on a car ride somewhere listening to somebody else's perspective.

Walker Bird [00:59:54]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:55]:
You know, that's a lot of time that accumulates that we can take in other perspectives that can teach us.

Walker Bird [01:00:00]:
Yeah. Audible's an amazing thing.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:02]:
Audible is amazing.

Walker Bird [01:00:03]:
YouTube podcast.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:04]:
YouTube podcast. Yeah. Whatever. Any podcast. Right. Whatever the platform. And not just one. You know, it's one of the things where, you know, we recommend a lot of other resources, not just ours.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:19]:
You know, we know that having multiple perspectives is helpful. I mean, I love learning from other people.

Walker Bird [01:00:28]:
And nobody has all the answers.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:30]:
Nobody has all the answers for you.

Walker Bird [01:00:32]:
Right, right.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:32]:
Right.

Walker Bird [01:00:33]:
And so you have to try on a bunch of different things to figure out what works for you and your family.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:38]:
Right, right. Thanks for the conversation and thank you.

Walker Bird [01:00:45]:
To appreciate the insights.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:47]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:00:47]:
Nice.

Theresa Hubbard [01:00:48]:
Yeah. And look forward to the. The adult children parenting conversations that we'll be having later this year. Yeah. Yeah. They're important. Deep. A lot that we carry around about our parents.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:09]:
Yeah. Looking for more freedom for all of us.

Walker Bird [01:01:14]:
Yeah. Caring about our children, too.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:16]:
Yes.

Walker Bird [01:01:16]:
Right.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:17]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:01:19]:
Always room for growth both ways. Right.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:21]:
Yes, always. All levels of relationship.

Walker Bird [01:01:25]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:26]:
Thank you. I love you.

Walker Bird [01:01:28]:
Love you, too. If you've been wishing for deeper trust and authenticity in your relationships, looking for better communication skills with your partner, we hope that you'll join us for our latest course, 10 Essential Skills to Build Stronger and Healthier Relationships.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:43]:
Yeah. Everything that Walker and I do is something that we put energy into creating it thoughtfully and intentionally. We're very curious about what might be most helpful for people in building healthier skills in relationship. We recognize it's something that we all need to practice time and time again and know that we're not just talking about intimate partners in this course. We're talking about family, co workers, friends. We really want to walk through this process of building healthier relationship in all areas of our life, and we hope that you consider joining us. Enrollment opens February 1st. Launching March 20th, first day of spring and the first day of our retreat.

Walker Bird [01:02:34]:
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see you there.

Theresa Hubbard [01:02:36]:
Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.