We Are The Medicine

Theresa Hubbard and Walker Bird

In this episode, Walker Bird and Theresa Hubbard sit down with Connor Link to discuss the journey of self-discovery, healing, and human connection. Connor shares how his experience as a competitive climber helped him build trust in himself and face fear head-on, eventually leading him to his work as a facilitator and coach.

They explore what it means to integrate healing, the power of sharing circles, and the idea that "we are the medicine"—that we all have the capacity to heal ourselves but sometimes need others to remind us of that truth. Connor also introduces his BRAVE journal method (Breathe, Release, Allow, Visualize, Express) and discusses creating safe, intentional spaces for growth.

This episode is full of personal stories and insights about connection and transformation. Plus, you'll hear about exciting upcoming opportunities, like a new course on building stronger relationships and the "Becoming Unshakeable: From Self-Doubt to Daring" retreat, where Connor will be a guest facilitator.

Are you ready to embrace your own unshakeable journey? Discover how you can join Theresa and Walker at their transformative wellness retreat in Missouri this March: ⁠My Inner Knowing Retreats⁠.

Episode Links & Resources

My Inner Knowing full episode ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠link⁠⁠

Connor's Website

Book - Man’s Search for Meaning

Book - Maps of Meaning

Connect with My Inner Knowing!⁠

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Walker Bird [00:00:00]:
If you've been wishing for deeper trust and authenticity in your relationships, looking for better communication skills with your partner, we hope that you'll join us for our latest course, 10 Essential Skills to Building Stronger and Healthier Relationships.

Theresa Hubbard [00:00:13]:
Yeah. Everything that Walker and I do is something that we put energy into creating it thoughtfully and intentionally. We're very curious about what might be most helpful for people in building healthier skills in relationship. We recognize it's something that we all need to practice time and time again and know that we're not just talking about intimate partners in this course. We're talking about family, co workers, friends. We really want to walk through this process of building healthier relationship in all areas of our life, and we hope that you consider joining us. Enrollment opens February 1st. Launching March 20th.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:00]:
First day of spring and the first day of our retreat. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:01:04]:
Yeah, we'll see you there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:06]:
Thank you.

Walker Bird [00:01:11]:
My Inner Knowing. Empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:39]:
Well, hello.

Connor Link [00:01:40]:
Hi. Hello.

Connor Link [00:01:43]:
Hi.

Connor Link [00:01:43]:
Officially.

Theresa Hubbard [00:01:44]:
Hi. Officially. That's right. How are you, Connor?

Connor Link [00:01:48]:
I'm good. I'm good. I wanted to acknowledge both of you guys for this space that you're creating and just how you guys are. Cause it is a choice. Like, being yourselves and being in general is a choice. And you guys are, like, fully choosing that. Like, being over at your house, like, I just felt like I could stay there for a year and no one would care. It was great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:18]:
Aw.

Connor Link [00:02:19]:
So I really appreciate that. Yeah. And. Yeah, of course. And. And, like, your willingness to, like, help me explore and, like, what I'm working on, it just felt really nice. And I just feel, like, really appreciated and seen. So thank you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:36]:
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. We've enjoyed our time with you. Yeah, it's been really nice.

Connor Link [00:02:41]:
Likewise.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:42]:
Yeah. We look forward to this conversation today.

Connor Link [00:02:46]:
Me too. Been really excited about it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:02:48]:
Well, good. Yay. Well, when you think about your inner knowing as best as you can describe it at this point in your life, what does it feel like for you?

Connor Link [00:03:11]:
Yeah, it's like a. It's. There's an ease to it. There's a trust that's available, that comes online really powerfully. Yeah. I feel like trust is the biggest thing. And then when I feel into that space and it feels like my heart, like My owner knowing feels for me, like, my heart space. This, like, space comes online that, like, my innocence can come forward, and that feels really natural to me.

Connor Link [00:03:55]:
Like, I've, like. I'm just excited about, like, life and people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:01]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:04:02]:
And I feel like when I'm trusting my inner knowing, when I'm settling into it, that comes online for me. It feels like. It feels alive and energizing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:15]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:04:16]:
Like. Like an espresso. Yeah, but without the dip.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:23]:
Without the dip. That's good.

Connor Link [00:04:25]:
I still like espresso, though. Yeah. So it's like. It feels like it's a really beautiful space. Someone in the workshop from last night, someone was describing to me what they were seeing, and it felt like they were seeing my heart. And they were describing. They were describing, like, me as a boy with overalls on. She didn't say cowboy boots, but I would have probably had cowboy boots on.

Theresa Hubbard [00:04:58]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:04:59]:
But I was, like, kind of frolicking through the woods and then through an open field and just, like, really happy by myself, but not alone, you know, not feeling alone. So. Yeah, it's kind of that space.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:14]:
Yeah. That's nice.

Connor Link [00:05:17]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:05:17]:
Yeah. When do you think you realized it was even a thing for you?

Connor Link [00:05:25]:
Yeah, that's a good question. Okay. So when I was in college, I remember we had an assignment where we had to ask each other a question, and mine was, what was it? It was like. It wasn't quite values yet. It was, what are you passionate about? Because that was, like, really alive for me. I was really passionate about climbing. It was really there for me, and I was really surprised that no one had an answer. And it, like.

Connor Link [00:06:07]:
It was kind of like I realized that, like. Like, not everybody has, like, something that. Yeah. It's like, I feel like climbing helped me find it, because I feel like I was. I started to get kind of disconnected from my body.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:29]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:06:29]:
And it helped me find, like, this space of, like, trust in myself, just how I navigated the world. And also navigating, like, fear, like, being in situations that aren't necessarily dangerous, but they're really scary, you know? Everything in my being doesn't understand that I'm safe.

Theresa Hubbard [00:06:50]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:06:51]:
Because I'm high up in the air. So I feel like that is when it started to, like, bubble up for me. And then that class is when I realized, like, that why is this important for me? And, like, why do I have this? Why is this here for me? And then other people, it's not there for them. I was just, like. I started to notice it and question it, and then I read. I read Viktor Frankl's oh, sure, Man's Search for Meaning. Search for meaning. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:07:23]:
And that, like, brought meaning into meaning making into my awareness. And that was like a huge shift. And then maps of Meaning. Jordan Peterson has this lecture series that he did a long time ago when he was a professor, and he goes through and, like, maps out like the Bible, but is in a meaning making sense. And that had a big impact on me too, because then I had a context for. Oh, religion can be like. Like these old stories can be like these. These beautiful stories that I can have my own context for and meaning making around.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:05]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:08:06]:
It doesn't have to, like, be a certain way. And that helped me see, like, a lot of the beauty in like, different religions is more of, like, like something to be experienced and not something to, like, identify with. Because I think I was in the world of, like, the wrong making of, like, identifying with a certain religion.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:26]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:08:27]:
At the time. So that gave me a broader context of, like, exploration. And I got excited about, like, what is this meaning making deal? Like, okay, where am I making meaning? Where am I not making meaning? And it really started to shift, like, what I was doing. I like, fully. I, like, I remember I was like, okay, I don't. I don't want to go to college anymore. I know that's, like, alive for me. And I was, like, worried about talking to my parents about it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:54]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:08:54]:
And this is like, soon after that class.

Theresa Hubbard [00:08:56]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:08:57]:
And I sat them down and I was like, I don't want to go to school anymore. I feel like I want to explore something else. I don't know what that is yet. And they were like, great. And I was like, oh, okay. I was like, really making this a lot different than that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:16]:
So. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:09:18]:
So that was really nice. And I, like, really acknowledge him for that because they could tell that, like, I had really been, like, exploring that. And I. I was like, you know, I had like a. I came to a decision.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:30]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:09:30]:
And they were really supportive. And then climbing became, like, my focus for a while and then teaching and coaching and that stuff kind of started to bubble up from there.

Theresa Hubbard [00:09:42]:
Wow.

Connor Link [00:09:42]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:09:44]:
How did you know? You know, how did you know the climbing is my direction at that point in time?

Connor Link [00:09:50]:
That's a good question. I felt. I felt like this excitement. Like, I never. Besides, like, gaming or even competitive gaming or just like, connecting with people, there was like, this. I could just do it all the time. You know, it was just. There was always like a newness, a freshness about it, and it Just was, like, endlessly deep.

Connor Link [00:10:23]:
I'd never found. I hadn't at that point. Yeah. Found something that was, like, in that endlessly deep for me. Yeah. There was, like, a depth to it that, like, spoke to me. I feel like.

Walker Bird [00:10:38]:
When you say endlessly deep, what do you mean?

Connor Link [00:10:41]:
So if you decide there's not anything else left to discover, you're right. But there always is more if you're open to it. With climb. I mean, with anything. But I just had that context with climbing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:10:58]:
Gotcha.

Walker Bird [00:10:59]:
It was your path.

Connor Link [00:11:00]:
Yeah. I was like. I was just seeing. I was like, this is endlessly deep. I could explore this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:07]:
Right. Like, just keep.

Connor Link [00:11:08]:
Let's do this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:09]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:11:10]:
Let's explore this.

Theresa Hubbard [00:11:11]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:11:12]:
And then the gym owner. One of the first gyms I climbed out was like, have you tried. Would you want to try coaching? I feel like you'd be good at it. And I was like, sure. And so at first, I was kind of just, like, saying yes to a bunch of different things, and it was like, really, like, I was like. I just said yes to whoever came in to, like, coaching. Like, there was this. There was this young lady who had autism, and I remember the owner of the gym was like, would you be comfortable, like, teaching her? And I was like, I don't know, but I'm open to it.

Connor Link [00:11:56]:
And that was kind of just like. It was just. It kept being like that. I don't know, but I'm open to it. And it was like that for a while, you know, which was. Yeah, it was really great. It was interesting.

Walker Bird [00:12:12]:
What made you even try it in the first place? You took a course, but what made you think, so I'll do this?

Connor Link [00:12:18]:
That's a good question. Yeah. The Lifetime Fitness was the gym that we went to, like, our family went to. And it was, like, newer. At the time I was in high school, I was probably, like, 16 or 17. Probably 17. And next to the basketball courts, there was a little climbing area. And for me and my brother, it was just like.

Connor Link [00:12:40]:
Instantly, we were like, I want to go in there. Like, I want to try that. And it really, like, man, it really was, like. It caught on fast. And we were really lucky because one of the managers there was this guy, Tom Spackow. He's a really good friend of mine. He's a wild dude. He's awesome.

Connor Link [00:13:00]:
He, like, grew up and spent most of his life in Colorado.

Theresa Hubbard [00:13:04]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:13:05]:
And had done a lot of climbing outside and stuff. So he knew a lot about climbing and, like, a greater context. So he was, like, teaching us and, like, showing us, like, he took us outside, and we, like, started meeting people who were climbing outside. And it's like, I didn't even know people did this. This is awesome. Like, why didn't we know about this, like, earlier on? And then it was really funny. Like, this is my. Definitely my ornery side.

Connor Link [00:13:36]:
So there was just a curtain that they would pull across the climbing area next to the basketball courts. And Lifetime was open. Like, I think it was open all night or something like that, which is crazy. But so I would go there. I started going there super late at night, like, 8, 9, 10pm and I would just go into the curtain and start climbing. But I would climb, like, high up. I'd stay in, like, bouldering height. And then I realized all that they did to lock where the holds were was an Allen key.

Connor Link [00:14:14]:
So I would. I would set my own routes, like, bouldering routes in the gym and, like, traverses and stuff. And then, like, my brother would, too. And then one of our other friends started, too. And then they were, like, noticing. And then they, like. They never checked the cameras, but they checked the cameras and were like. They, like, talked to us.

Connor Link [00:14:32]:
They were like, you guys are setting routes. We were like, yeah, we are. You have to tell us. Like, you can't just set routes. We're like, sorry, can we keep doing it, though? Because it's really fun. And so they. They luckily, like, let us keep doing it. And especially one of our friends that climbed and had climbed outside was setting stuff for us to, like, teach.

Connor Link [00:14:56]:
Teach us, like, movement.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:58]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:14:58]:
To go outside.

Theresa Hubbard [00:14:59]:
Interesting.

Connor Link [00:15:00]:
So that really built, like, the Lifetime was, like, the first place. So, like, whenever people are oftentimes, like, have judgment about, like, where they started climbing because they're like, oh, yeah, I just started in a gym. I'm like, I started at Lifetime Fitness next to the basketball courts, right? Like, it doesn't matter.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:17]:
It doesn't matter.

Connor Link [00:15:18]:
No. And that was, like, at the time, that was the coolest shit ever, right? Like, of all time, you know, because I didn't have any idea about it. So that's. Yeah, that was. It was just, like, totally, like, went and tried it and, like, loved it, like, straight away. And I guess we had climbed. There's a place called Galleons. You guys ever remember that place, you know, where Dick's Sporting Goods is now in Overland Park? That used to be Galleons.

Connor Link [00:15:47]:
And it was like this really cool. They had, like, really cool stuff. They had, like, really. They had paintball gear. They had climbing gear.

Theresa Hubbard [00:15:55]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:15:56]:
They had more like, off the wall stuff. And they had a climbing wall that you could, like, kind of rent out, like a little birthday party or whatever.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:06]:
Oh, sure, sure.

Connor Link [00:16:07]:
It was kind of like a spire that went up. So if you're on the second level, you could see people climbing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:12]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:16:12]:
It was really cool.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:13]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:16:14]:
And it was, like, really far ahead of their time. Like, now climbing gyms will do that. So, like, if you're on the second level, like, working out or on an elliptical, people are, like, climbing past you.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:24]:
Oh, wow.

Connor Link [00:16:25]:
It's, like, really cool because you're just, like, able to watch them, and it's, like, really fun.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:30]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:16:30]:
But that was, like, the first. Very first time when we were little. But there wasn't really anything, any place you could do it, like, consistently, I feel like. So Lifetime Fitness was the first. Yeah, it was the first place. Yeah. I used to go in there and create my own climbs and, like, just. Yeah, just be doing that.

Connor Link [00:16:54]:
It was the best.

Theresa Hubbard [00:16:55]:
What do you think you learned about yourself?

Connor Link [00:16:58]:
Yeah, I feel like I learned, like, that I'm capable. That I'm, like, physically capable, too, that I can, like, deal with, like, difficult situations. I feel like that was a big thing. Okay. Because I. I used to get really mad when I was a kid. Like, I would just get so mad, and I feel like it allowed me to channel, like, this, like, fierceness in a way that felt, like, almost, like, acceptable, you know, in a way.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:37]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:17:38]:
But to me, it felt, like, better. Like, it just felt better to like, let it, you know, let it be seen or just, like, be with it in that way, like, trying really hard.

Theresa Hubbard [00:17:50]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:17:51]:
I don't think I'd ever tried something to the level of, like, just, like, everything I have, you know, like, just. Yeah. Just giving, like, 100% to something I'd never. Like, physically.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:07]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:18:07]:
I don't feel like I'd ever done that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:10]:
Sure.

Connor Link [00:18:11]:
Yeah. Maybe with basketball, but with sports, I don't know if I ever got to that point where it was, like. It was, like. It was, like, choice, you know? Like, I had nothing left, but I could still choose to, like, keep going and just see what happened.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. So interesting.

Connor Link [00:18:29]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:18:30]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:18:30]:
I never. Yeah. Never gone to that place until I climbed.

Walker Bird [00:18:37]:
Can you remember? And it's just I. I have only gone rappelling. Okay. And it was terrifying. We did it on a real cliff, for starters. It was terrifying the first time. And then I'm running to get back up and go back down.

Connor Link [00:18:49]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:18:51]:
Is there a moment that you can recall, whether indoors or outdoors, where you're in the midst of that and you have some sort of awakening or epiphany or. Do you ever have a moment like that where you were climbing?

Connor Link [00:19:07]:
I did.

Walker Bird [00:19:08]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:19:08]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:19:09]:
Can you tell us about it?

Connor Link [00:19:10]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:19:10]:
And I've never asked you this question before, so I'm like, sure, sure.

Connor Link [00:19:14]:
Yeah. No, it's. Yeah, it's interesting because a specific one comes up. I was climbing in Kentucky. It's called the Red River Gorge. Just these giant, like. It's this giant gorge that looks like Jurassic Park. It's insane.

Connor Link [00:19:28]:
It doesn't make sense that it's in Kentucky, but it's amazing. Like, there's these, like, giant sweeping cliffs that, like, are so overhung that if you stand at the start of a climb and look up, you can't see the top of the cloud because it's so, like this.

Walker Bird [00:19:43]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:19:44]:
And it's just, like, really epic, really grand scale. So it can be really overwhelming to climb there because it's, like, you just feel so exposed and, like. Like, so vulnerable because you're so high up. There's so much space around you. The falls are big, but they're safe because you're. It's overhung. So if you fall, you're not gonna swing into the wall or anything.

Theresa Hubbard [00:20:10]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:20:10]:
But it's just scary. And it's the first time I was, like. Something about how I'm breathing or, like, focusing on breathing, I feel, like, could be helpful. I don't remember what I was, like, learning at the time, but that was, like. For some reason, that was there. So I was like, okay, on this climb, I'm literally just going to focus on my breath and, like, just, like, breathe as loud as I feel like I need to. Just whatever. And I did.

Connor Link [00:20:41]:
And I like. So on that climb, it's probably, like, 80ft. And there's this spot. There's a spot that you get to that's just like, this huge jug hold that. That's, like, amazing. Like, you can put. You're like. It's such a comfortable hold, and you can, like, put your feet up and you can, like, shake out and rest before, like, the last part.

Connor Link [00:21:05]:
And I remember I was just at that hold. All of a sudden, I started the climb, and then I, like, came to, and I was at the hold, and I was like, what the fuck? Like, I was so present that I, like. I, like, got to the rest hold, like, relaxed, and then I was like, whoa, I'm right here. And I was, like, kind of overwhelmed by it because it was like, not that I was, like, out of my body, but I was like. It almost was like that. It was like I snapped back, and I was like, at the rest hold, like, 80ft or, like 60ft off the ground, like, shaking out. And I was like, whoa, what was that about? And I came down after the climb, and my friend was like, that was insane. Like, how did you do that? He was like, you were like.

Connor Link [00:21:59]:
Like, like no hesitation. I didn't have any hesitation. I was just, like, climbing, like, breathing, like, clipping, like, usually clips, especially at the time, like, so pulling my rope up to clip to the quick draw. So that way, if I fall, I fall from that point.

Theresa Hubbard [00:22:14]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:22:15]:
And since it's so overhang, it can be kind of spacey, like, where your clips are. So when you go to clips, sometimes it can be kind of scary if you're, like, kind of let yourself think about it because you're. You're both. You're grabbing the rope so you're looking down, right? So you're pulling the rope up, and then you're seeing where your next clip.

Walker Bird [00:22:40]:
Is, where you'll drop.

Connor Link [00:22:42]:
Yes. And then you're also like, okay, I need to get this clip. So, like, if I fall, I'm. I'm gonna fall right here. But if I don't get this, I'm pulling extra slack out, so it's gonna be a longer fall. And I can see it's already pretty long. So it's like, I was having a really hard time with that, especially on that trip, like, dealing with. Dealing with the clipping.

Connor Link [00:23:06]:
And that was, like, that really helped me just be really present and just, like, not think about what would happen if I didn't get the clip, but just being really present with, like, how my body was feeling and if I could relax and if I couldn't relax or where I needed to, maybe I needed to keep my shoulder locked, but I could kind of relax, like, my arm a little bit. Or, like, maybe I could relax this arm completely, but not this arm almost at all. So just, like, giving me access to awareness instead of just, like, being in the fear of experience and being, like, swallowed by it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:44]:
Wow. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:23:45]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:23:46]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:23:48]:
So I think, you know, our. What I analogize that, too, is artists, you know, getting in the flow or in the zone.

Connor Link [00:23:55]:
Totally. That was the first time I had experienced flow like that. Yeah, that was the first time I. Cause I heard people talk about it, and I was like, that sounds great, but, like, how do you do that? Like, it was almost a frustration I had about it. Cause I was, like, learning about that, learning about breath. And I don't think I put it together that it was like, that I already had the tools. I just needed to, like, fully engage with it. And then, yeah, I was like, I experienced flow.

Connor Link [00:24:26]:
And then I was like, okay, there's something that felt really important. There's something about this. And then I, like, started sharing it with, like, students and stuff.

Theresa Hubbard [00:24:34]:
Yeah. Wow. So I'm curious, Connor, between then and now, what are some of the things that you have explored to help you on your journey, increase your awareness, find groundedness, like, what comes to mind?

Connor Link [00:25:00]:
Yeah. I mean, honestly, for me, it was. It was like psychedelics, but in a context that felt really safe and, like, actually had a focus on integration.

Walker Bird [00:25:14]:
Intentional.

Connor Link [00:25:15]:
Intentional. Intentionality around both and not just, like, in that world, but, like, intentionality with, like, breath work. Like, actually, like, going somewhere where it's like, we're doing this and then we're going to, like, talk about it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:25:29]:
Okay. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:25:30]:
Yeah. So that definitely helped. Men's work, men's groups, that really helped me just establish a context of, like, continuous connection and, like, deepening. Like, deepening in my sharing, because I remember. And, like, for listeners, like, integration, like, just to have a context for it. It'd be like, if you go on a retreat, you know, and, like, let's say a yoga retreat, and then, you know, maybe at the end you talk about your experience. And I feel like the men's group especially, and, like, the integration experiences I had with, like, different, like, spaces of, like, ceremony and stuff, like, that really helped me see, like, how I was sharing and where I was coming from.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:24]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:26:25]:
Because I was, like, really. At first, I was, like, really worried. I was like, man, I feel like I didn't feel safe, like, crying around other people. So that was, like, a. Those space, especially the men's group setting, helped me understand that. Like, that's, like, a really clear. If I'm. If that's what's there for me, like, that's the most clear I can be about the impact and sharing, like, how it was for me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:26:54]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:26:55]:
Um, so I feel like that really helped, like, being in spaces where sharing about the experience is, like, really important. That really helped.

Theresa Hubbard [00:27:06]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:27:07]:
And I was able to bring that into, like, the team atmosphere with the kids. I called it the circle of Stoke.

Walker Bird [00:27:16]:
So nice.

Connor Link [00:27:17]:
I noticed. I was like. I was like, it feels important for them to, like, be excited not just for what they're doing, but for each other. But I wanted them to, like, like, be aware of it and like, look for it. So I was like, okay. Every. At the end of every class or, like, session, we would get in a circle, and each person would share something they're excited about for themselves, but also another. Another teammate.

Connor Link [00:27:46]:
Because I. I really wanted to share that, like, context, because it was so helpful for me. Something about that sharing and, like, getting comfortable with it just allowed me to, like, like, authenticity, to, like, come forward.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:03]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:28:04]:
And I noticed, like, when the kids were, like, looking for that, they started to see each other more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:28:13]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:28:13]:
And that was really.

Walker Bird [00:28:15]:
Are these climbing classes that you're talking about?

Connor Link [00:28:17]:
Yeah, that was. For a couple years. I taught, like, a team of kids, and we traveled, like, to competitions and stuff. And, yeah, that really. That felt really important. And I remember just being like, yeah, I was like. I don't know why exactly, but that feels important. And it feels good to see them, like, be, like, so.

Connor Link [00:28:41]:
And so, like, was really trying hard today, and it wasn't. Cause it's really easy for them to be in, like, especially with competition, like, be in the world of, like, only the person that's, like, competing at the highest level deserves, like, praise. And I. I don't believe that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:00]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:29:01]:
And. And, you know, sometimes that was. I had to stand up for myself with parents and stuff, because they had their values. Then I have mine, and I'm like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:12]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:29:13]:
I understand that, but, like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:15]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:29:15]:
I'm, like, teaching from this space, you know? And it was interesting seeing. Yeah. Seeing some of the kids, like, see each other and, like, be excited for each other just because they were seeing, like, their effort and, like, what they were doing instead of, like, the. Necessarily the level they were doing it at. Yeah. I feel like that was a big shift.

Theresa Hubbard [00:29:44]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:29:44]:
Like, seeing the importance of that.

Walker Bird [00:29:45]:
How old are you when you're doing this teaching?

Connor Link [00:29:49]:
Like, 24.

Walker Bird [00:29:51]:
Did you. Did somebody teach you how to teach, or did that just come to you?

Connor Link [00:29:55]:
That was intuitive. It was intuitive, which was tough for me because, like, when. Like, when we would go to, like, nationals and stuff, I would be around, like, people that, you know, I just, like, learned from on the Internet. And now they're like. You know, they're, like, there with their team, and I'm like, oh, my God, what am I doing here? Kind of feeling. Because I, like. And I remember I always come back to the story of. I was at this conference before, like, nationals, and all the coaches were, like, getting seated, and they were gonna, like, share the.

Connor Link [00:30:34]:
Like, share the. I guess, like, what we were doing for that day, and this big group sat behind me. And they were all, like. They all knew each other well, and I could tell. I was like, that's really cool. It's like, all these different coaches are like, you know, have good rapport and, like, know each other. So I started talking to one of them. He was like, yeah, I can't remember his name.

Connor Link [00:30:53]:
So. And so from Team Texas. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. How do you know everybody? And he was like, we're Team Texas. I was like, oh, shit. It was, like, 10 coaches.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:07]:
Wow.

Connor Link [00:31:08]:
I was like, oh, okay. So, like, part of it. It was, like, overwhelming at first.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:14]:
Sure.

Connor Link [00:31:14]:
Because I didn't have, like. Like, I had a little bit of structure, but, like, I was kind of the only one. I was like, the only coach on the team for a while until I did have someone else helping me. That was. That was really helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:29]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:31:29]:
But, yeah, that was overwhelming.

Theresa Hubbard [00:31:31]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:31:32]:
At first.

Walker Bird [00:31:33]:
How do you think you found. I'm sorry.

Connor Link [00:31:35]:
Diving in. I'm so interested. I'll give you your chance in just.

Walker Bird [00:31:38]:
Like, how do you think you found, at 24, the strength to be able to stand in the fire of parents who are all locked up in the. You know, the competitive thing. You know, my child must be the champion. Whatever that was. Right.

Connor Link [00:31:53]:
For some.

Walker Bird [00:31:54]:
For others, other things.

Connor Link [00:31:55]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:31:56]:
At 24, how do you. How did you find the space, you know, to hold yourself and say, but this is what I'm trying to teach.

Connor Link [00:32:04]:
Sure.

Walker Bird [00:32:05]:
That's powerful stuff.

Connor Link [00:32:06]:
Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that acknowledgment. Yeah, it's. I mean, it's my heart, for sure. Like. Like, I was pretty clear where I was coming from. I don't know why or how, but I just remember, like, I just.

Connor Link [00:32:24]:
I would just be loving about it. I feel like. Like I didn't meet, like, for instance, and I had so many great relationships with pretty much all the parents. And, like, even with. It would just be little things. It would be like, you know, like a. At a competition, a dad, like, really wants to, like, give the kid advice. And I can tell it's just not helping.

Connor Link [00:32:47]:
Like, she's shutting down.

Theresa Hubbard [00:32:48]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:32:50]:
So just being, like. I'm just saying what I'm seeing, you know, I'm not, like, doing any wrong making. I'm just saying, like, when. When you were sharing that she's, like, shutting down. So I don't know if that is gonna be helpful for her.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:05]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:33:05]:
Like, mid competition, probably not gonna be helpful.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:09]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:33:10]:
Maybe share with me what you feel like you want to tell her. And then I could Try. Because, like, I'm not her dad, you know?

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:20]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:33:20]:
So it was like. It was seeing. But also, like, we're working together because we both, like, I can tell he's doing it because he loves her and he wants. Like, I just. I wasn't seeing. Even with parents that were being, like, overbearing, I was seeing what they were wanting to do. It just wasn't working.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:41]:
Right. Right.

Connor Link [00:33:43]:
And I wasn't, like. I didn't want to make them wrong. And I feel like a lot of it came from playing team sports growing up. Just, like, seeing as a kid, like, what didn't work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:33:53]:
Right, Right. Because that's a world that didn't work.

Connor Link [00:33:58]:
You get to see that pretty clearly, you know? So I feel like that was. That gave me a lot of context. Like, growing up playing team sports, I was lucky when I played basketball that my dad was the assistant coach because he's, like, very loving. Like, when the. When the head coach was being weird, all the kids would be, like, scooted over next to my dad, like a dad. Got the wing.

Walker Bird [00:34:24]:
I got you.

Connor Link [00:34:25]:
Yeah. All the kids are like, oh, God, he's weirding us out. So I feel like that was. That was probably a part of it where I was just like. I saw, like, when I was growing up, like, one thing that comes to mind is, like, I don't know if I shared this story about football. Maybe I shared this with Luke. I think I shared this with Luke. Okay.

Connor Link [00:34:48]:
I remember I was playing, like, I was pretty young. I was playing, like, linebacker, and I ran around. The quarterback wasn't facing me at all. He was, like, completely looking the other way, about to pass. So I just stripped the ball, took it, and ran. And the coach was like, he got hyper, focused on the fact that I didn't hit him, that I didn't tackle him. He was like, he wasn't looking at you, so next time, like, hit him. And I was like, well, that just confused me because I was like, I.

Connor Link [00:35:17]:
I was just trying to get the ball right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:19]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:35:21]:
And that kind of, like, weirded me out. And I didn't have the awareness back then of why that weirded me out, but now I do.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:28]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:35:28]:
And I kind of started to shy away from that sport after that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:32]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:35:33]:
Like, looking back now.

Theresa Hubbard [00:35:34]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:35:35]:
So there was just little instances growing up playing team sports, I feel like they gave me a context of, like, what. What I felt like didn't work or I didn't like. And then when I started teaching, I was just like, you know, it was just so much Learning. I didn't have a chance to like. Yeah, I was kind of just like, especially at first. I was just saying yes to all of it and just figuring it out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting, Connor. It makes me. It takes me back to when I was in my late 20s and I was coaching my oldest son's T ball team. And, and I don't remember why. They must have needed somebody. It's not like I knew anything about, you know, coaching T ball, but I was.

Theresa Hubbard [00:36:30]:
And, and I think I did learn that way too. Like growing up playing team sports. Like that doesn't work. That doesn't work or I don't think that's helpful. I think, I think that a lot. And I remember that it was a co ed team and one of the parents was a professional athlete and one of the parents was. Was worked for the professional athlete team, you know, like in, I don't know, like coaching or in some capacity. That that was their realm, that was their right.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:12]:
And I remember that this one child on the team could not throw the ball overhanded with any level of precision.

Connor Link [00:37:25]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:25]:
At all.

Connor Link [00:37:26]:
Sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:27]:
And I remember just telling the child, if you get ball, just roll it to that person because they could do that accurately. Right. And I remember it wasn't the professional athlete, but it was the one that worked for that team. I mean, lost his mind on me. I mean, just lost his mind.

Connor Link [00:37:51]:
He did not have a context for rolling balls.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:53]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:37:56]:
He was like, that's wrong.

Theresa Hubbard [00:37:57]:
That is. And I remember him coming up to me and he just was like, you are not helping. I was like, actually I think I am, you know, because, you know. And he's like, you're not teaching my child. And I was like. And it wasn't their child that I was doing that with. It was just that he was upset that what I was allowing or teaching this child to do was somehow negatively impacting his five year old, you know, like in the long term. And I just know for me, like I was so clear and I was, I don't know, I was probably 29, I would guess at the time that I was just like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:38:41]:
But I'm wanting everybody to learn. I want everybody to feel a sense of empowerment. I want everybody to feel like they're contributing and like, I don't know where that came from other than I do think as you're speaking that it came from watching so many people not be empowered, you know, I mean, I want people to feel capable and competent. I want people to feel like they have value and that they are contributing. And I just think that piece, I think, has been with me as long as I can remember.

Connor Link [00:39:17]:
Likewise. Yeah, that's been. I mean, even my mom, I didn't know because I was so little, but that was, like, when I was in, like, kindergarten. I was like, a peer role model. I was, like, so little. I was just, like, doing me. I didn't know. I didn't have any context for that.

Connor Link [00:39:35]:
But I just. I just really loved, like, I had a best friend that had cerebral palsy. And, like, I just loved him because he was, like, my friend. His name was Ryan. And because I didn't have, like, he was just my friend.

Theresa Hubbard [00:39:53]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:39:54]:
And we add layers on that. But, yeah, he's just my friend. I don't need to define it anymore than that, you know? And I feel like that's. I just feel like I don't like it when people are left out.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think we all have something to contribute. Absolutely.

Connor Link [00:40:12]:
100.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:13]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:40:14]:
100%. And that's where, like, a lot of my work even comes from. It's like, I'm like, you have so much to contribute.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:21]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:40:21]:
You know, and it's like, if you want to.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:25]:
Right, right. Absolutely.

Connor Link [00:40:27]:
Because it's like an invitation.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:29]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:40:29]:
You know, but I want to be that. And that's when I was coaching. Like, I want. I was an invitation to the space of exploration.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:37]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Connor Link [00:40:38]:
That was the main thing I was doing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:41]:
Yeah. It's interesting. I feel like for me, too, like, I can see people clearly.

Connor Link [00:40:47]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:50]:
And so I don't think about it as. I can see their potential.

Connor Link [00:40:53]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:54]:
I just feel like I can see them.

Connor Link [00:40:56]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:40:57]:
Yeah. Clearly. Yeah. I want to go back because I know we're going to run out of time. It goes so quick. But you had mentioned that you felt like your psilocybin experiences were a significant part of your journey. And then you mentioned the integration period being really important. And Walker and I do, too, in facilitating our retreats.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:23]:
We do. I mean, we call it group share, but really everybody's going around and sharing their experience kind of like throughout the weekend as we get through, like, this period. Okay. Reflect back on that.

Connor Link [00:41:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:41:36]:
What was that like for you? Right. So because we know that during that, we're not just sharing our story, which allows us this ability to say it out loud. Right. And to reflect. It's also the sharing with other people who, you know, maybe they connected with your experience or maybe they learned from your experience. You know, you had an awareness that maybe they didn't have. But then you're sharing and they're like, oh, yeah, that was really helpful for me. And so I do think that that piece is important too, regardless of whatever modality you're stepping into when you're doing your work.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:13]:
That piece of sharing, I do think is important.

Connor Link [00:42:17]:
Yeah, it's essential.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:18]:
Yeah. So for you, you mentioned it as being significant. What about it? Do you think it, I don't know, brought into your life or your awareness that.

Connor Link [00:42:32]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly. It was itch. Because it's the, like, specifically with, like, any medicine work that I've engaged with, it's. You're bringing that space into your reality, like, into your everyday. So integration is your opportunity to start.

Theresa Hubbard [00:42:57]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:42:58]:
Bringing that into your reality, like that medicine space. You're like. Because it's always available. That medicine is just reminding you that it's available. So what integration taught me is that that space is always available, and then I can choose to cultivate it in my everyday life.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:21]:
So when you say that space, what do you mean by that space is always available?

Connor Link [00:43:27]:
Yeah. Like, so I mean loving awareness specifically.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:32]:
Okay, okay.

Connor Link [00:43:34]:
Loving awareness specifically. But, like, say, times where I've been, like, in a, like, mushroom space.

Theresa Hubbard [00:43:42]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:43:43]:
Like psychedelics, like, feeling, like, feeling this love, but it's like, it's me, but it's also, like, around me. It's like I'm. I'm loving awareness, but I'm loving awareness. Like, I'm it, but I'm also loving it at the same time. And it allowed me to see that, like, integration is my opportunity to, like, go to that space and share about it and then continually go to that space, like, after.

Theresa Hubbard [00:44:20]:
It's interesting. I mean, what I'm, you know, curious about is, so is it an opportunity to remember what we have forgotten about loving space? Or even maybe to experience it for the first time, you know, if we haven't had an opportunity to really experience kind of, like a full love. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out how to, like, put it into words for people. Yeah. For people who've never done any type of plant medicine.

Connor Link [00:45:03]:
Sure. Yeah. It's. For me, it's like there's like a reverence.

Theresa Hubbard [00:45:09]:
Okay.

Connor Link [00:45:10]:
There's a reverence there, which is, like, my intention, I feel like, is where the reverence comes from. It's like, I'm going into this because, like, I want to explore and I want to, like. I want to have more space for love in my life. And then the. Yeah. What is it? It's like, it is a remembering. I feel like it's a remembering for me. Like, and it's, you know, in my life, I've had, like, you know, when all of a sudden you just realize something or you just know something, or it just, like, comes to you.

Connor Link [00:45:52]:
That is my experience of that, being in that space. Especially, like, when it. For the first time for me and feeling like this and like, feeling it. It felt. It felt natural. It felt like home. That's why I'm saying remembering, because if it was like. If it was like a new thing, it wouldn't feel like there wouldn't be this, like, almost recognition that you've been there before kind of feeling.

Connor Link [00:46:28]:
But it just felt like very home. Very, like, natural and very much like remembering. And when I'm, like, talking to people, even in, like, the work that I do, like, you've talked about this too. Like, with therapy, sometimes things will come up and you'll share something and you're like, I didn't know that. I knew that. But, like, it was in the space.

Theresa Hubbard [00:46:50]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:46:51]:
And I shared it. It's like that knowing and that remembering. Like, I feel. I felt that, like, I would have, like, a. The first time I. I had a mushroom experience, I had this, like, poem came to me. I don't remember it exactly, but it was something along the lines of, like, life is a collection of stories, and if you don't have time to hear somebody's story, you've lost your way. Just about, like, I feel like it was just about, like, what I valued and, like, connecting with people and, like, hearing about, like, what they have to share.

Connor Link [00:47:31]:
And. Yeah. I remember, remember being like, what is that about? Because that's not something I would have, like, in that time, like, just, like, written down.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:41]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:47:41]:
You know, but I wrote it down and it was, like, moving for me. So it's something about. It felt like, well, I wrote it down, so somehow I knew this, you know, but it's like.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:47:55]:
Yeah. It was like a remembering.

Theresa Hubbard [00:47:57]:
Yeah. For you and the experiences that you've had. If you were going to share with people, I don't know, some thoughts about what you think has been most helpful for you. I mean, it sounds like, again, more structured experiences. It's just not random. You're very intentional about what you're doing.

Connor Link [00:48:19]:
Yeah. And so a safety element.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:22]:
So a safety element. Yeah. So well respected facilitator.

Connor Link [00:48:27]:
Yeah. Somebody I trust deeply. It's, like, there for. For me and for everybody. There.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:33]:
Right, right. Fully present.

Connor Link [00:48:36]:
Yep.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:36]:
Yeah. Grounded, engaged. Yeah. Taking care of you. I mean, I. I mean, for me, when I, you know, talk to clients about it, you know, because, you know, people bring it up more than they ever used to, you know.

Connor Link [00:48:52]:
Yeah. It's like kind of in the zeitgeist a little bit more.

Theresa Hubbard [00:48:55]:
Yeah. And so one of the things I recommend is, you know, just if you're going to allow yourself to be opened up like that, Right. Where your inhibitions are down and your heart is more open, having a facilitator who really is going to hold that space in such a way that you can have a corrective experience around abandonment issues or attachment issues, not exacerbate it, not make it worse. Right, right. Because facilitators have a huge role and responsibility in that and in not reinforcing or exaggerating or, you know, increasing our trauma in those areas.

Connor Link [00:49:37]:
Yeah, yeah. Especially when something's, like, fresh, it can feel really delicate.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:41]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:49:42]:
You know, especially, like, when something's new. Like when someone's sharing something new, like, feels really delicate, especially at first.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:50]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:49:50]:
And you can really, like. You can really make. It works.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:54]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:49:55]:
If you're, like, not able to hold that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:49:58]:
Yeah. Space for them.

Connor Link [00:50:00]:
Yeah. So that is really important, like, the person. And I feel like, for me, it has to be somebody who, in a general context, I feel really comfortable around and sharing these things with and connecting with, you know, because it's like. I mean. Yeah, that's really important. Yeah, that part of it is really important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:24]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:50:25]:
Like, connecting with them and developing that before engaging in something like that.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:31]:
Right, right.

Connor Link [00:50:32]:
Feels important, too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:33]:
Yeah, I agree.

Connor Link [00:50:35]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:35]:
Relationship.

Connor Link [00:50:37]:
Yeah. Developing that first.

Theresa Hubbard [00:50:39]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about this documentary I watched several years ago called the Last Shaman, and it was on Netflix, and it was a young man who had the resources to go do it and create the, you know, film, you know, all of it. And, you know, he went and learned along the way, you know, but his first experience, I mean, they were ayahuasca experiences. Someone died in circle first time, and, you know, then he's like, oh, my gosh. And then finding somebody else and then having another negative experience of a different kind, but another negative experience. And then the last shaman was the one who really formed a relationship with him, cared for him, took him in. Right. Really just was like, this is a bigger healing than just giving you this thing.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:38]:
Right. Like, this is a process.

Connor Link [00:51:41]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:41]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:51:42]:
And, like, invited him into it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:44]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:51:44]:
That space fully. Then he did.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:48]:
Right, right, right. The relationship was first.

Connor Link [00:51:51]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:51]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:51:51]:
Which I feel like is so important.

Theresa Hubbard [00:51:53]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:51:53]:
Because it's so easy to be like, I'm just gonna do this and then I'm gonna be super open. But it's like, you know, I've seen people in a space where, like, you can be as closed off as you want in those spaces, you know, like, if you don't trust people around you, like, you don't know them sometimes.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:11]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:52:12]:
I know for myself, like, if I don't. If I don't trust, like, the person that's like kind of the. Not authority figure, but, like the facilitator.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:22]:
Yeah, yeah.

Connor Link [00:52:22]:
It's. I'm not going to be able to drop in fully.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:25]:
Yeah, yeah.

Connor Link [00:52:27]:
Because that would be like. Yeah, that would be stepping over a boundary, I feel like, for me.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:32]:
Mm, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. I just think it's important, you know, again, I think people hear about it, you know, But I also want people to make safe, informed, thoughtful choices if that's something that they want to.

Connor Link [00:52:49]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:49]:
Explore.

Connor Link [00:52:50]:
Yeah. And, you know, exploring your intention around it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:52:55]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:52:56]:
It can be helpful to get clear on and Intention.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:00]:
Right.

Walker Bird [00:53:00]:
I think it's critical.

Connor Link [00:53:01]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:02]:
Otherwise you're just getting high for sure.

Connor Link [00:53:04]:
And I. Because I've seen. I've seen it play out both ways. I've seen people who don't really. They're like. I don't even know, really. But then, like, you know, the teaching arrives for them. But then I've also seen people that.

Connor Link [00:53:17]:
I can tell, they're. They're just kind of escaping. They're going to escape and then.

Theresa Hubbard [00:53:23]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:53:23]:
You know, that circles back around.

Walker Bird [00:53:26]:
You know, I think ultimately the human connection.

Connor Link [00:53:29]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:53:30]:
So see, whether it's with ourselves or from that loving presence of the right facilitator in the group and the sharing afterwards, that human connection is really the healing.

Connor Link [00:53:40]:
It 100% is. There's this. I don't know if it. My brother shared it with me. He was like, we are the medicine people. And then what came through from a ceremony, experience is we are the medicine people because we are the medicine. Because it was like completing it. He might have even said that to me, but it was like completing it for me to, like, we have the capability to heal ourselves, and then we need each other to remind us of that.

Connor Link [00:54:14]:
I feel like. Remember that honestly. And I feel like that's. Yeah. Like, that space can be created with just people who are willing to love each other.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:24]:
I agree. I agree. I feel like that's what we do at retreat. I mean. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:54:29]:
We're holding space and loving people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:54:32]:
Yeah, yeah. Nurturing.

Walker Bird [00:54:33]:
It's a great. It's. It's great from our side too, because being able to open your heart and hold that for people who are, you know, in pain, it's just a lovely experience. It heals us, too.

Connor Link [00:54:47]:
Yep. Because it's like we all. We all have, like, so many similarities, you know, like every time somebody shares an integration, I'm like, wherever they are with that, I'm right there with them because I can see it.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:02]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:55:03]:
Like, for me too.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:04]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:55:05]:
And I feel like that's the powerful part about integration and that's why it feels so important to me now. It's like, that is the. Like, we should just go around doing. Share circles. That would be great.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:18]:
That would be great. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my living room, like, regularly. Right.

Connor Link [00:55:24]:
It's like when I visit my parents too, it just feels like we just sit around and talk. It was funny because my wife was talking to a friend and we were gonna go stay with my parents for one of the holidays and they were like, oh, no. And she was like, no, it's great. We're excited. Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:55:41]:
Not everybody's experience.

Connor Link [00:55:42]:
No, I. It is not. Yeah. Not everybody's experience, for sure.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:49]:
No, we enjoy it. We did it last night, last after.

Connor Link [00:55:52]:
Class, and it was really nice.

Theresa Hubbard [00:55:54]:
It's really lovely. Yeah. And it's funny because we always talk about, oh, we're going to watch this movie, and we don't ever do it because we just. We just sit around. Yeah. Sharing.

Connor Link [00:56:05]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:06]:
About what's going on in our lives.

Connor Link [00:56:09]:
And it's a good movie.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:10]:
Yeah, it's a good movie. It is a good movie. Nice one, Connor.

Connor Link [00:56:16]:
It's what most movies are about. Anyways.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:20]:
Okay, so as we're finishing up, Connor, anything that you would like to share that you haven't, that comes to mind.

Connor Link [00:56:31]:
Yeah, just so. Yeah. Like, what I'm stepping into now is my work with make meaning.

Theresa Hubbard [00:56:38]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:56:39]:
Um, and just, you know, cultivating these spaces for people to explore in this way. And I feel called to be in service as a facilitator, but, you know, without plant medicine, helping people integrate and explore. But integration is. Is very important for me. So, like, the context with like the Brave journal and that practice, like the stuff that we walked through earlier.

Walker Bird [00:57:06]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:57:07]:
Is just helping give people a context to share what's there for them and so they can start to integrate it. Because for myself, that was the hardest part for me is like, I didn't know what the fuck to share.

Theresa Hubbard [00:57:18]:
Right.

Connor Link [00:57:20]:
I was like. And then I was like, oh, just start with, like, what's there? But it was like, I don't know what's there. So, like, and I feel like my relationship with my wife has helped me give more context for. For sharing, which has been really nice. Hard at first because I didn't have context for it, so I kind of shut down, but now I have more context for sharing. So that's like the journal and the mapping that I'm doing is just helping give people a context for themselves and what they value. Specifically what they value. Because I've noticed that for me, my values are connection, expression, and service.

Connor Link [00:57:59]:
If I feel into those, I get a real sense of if I'm in alignment or what I want to create from that space. And feeling into that space is how I created my business. Because I was like. And service popped up for me as my third value when I was exploring that space. It was wisdom, which is your values can shift and change. And that's perfect.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:21]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:58:22]:
Because you. You shift and change all the time. All the time.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:27]:
The hope, anyway.

Connor Link [00:58:28]:
Exactly. And some mean, like, connection's always been there for me. But yeah, just being in service in a space to help people connect and help people express what's there for them, and so they can create more space for love, both for them, but also for other people.

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:48]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:48]:
So the Brave Journal, it's an acronym, right?

Connor Link [00:58:51]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [00:58:52]:
What does it stand?

Theresa Hubbard [00:58:52]:
For?

Connor Link [00:58:53]:
Sure. So it's breathe, Release, Allow, visualize, Express, or explore, if you're going to keep going, but express, if you're going to, you know, outwardly express about it, breath. So I like to picture it as a circle with breath in the middle and then the other branches coming off of it. Because, like, breath is kind of how you move through those different spaces. And I could go straight from breath, I could go straight to expression. But oftentimes following that wheel from release to allow to visualize, and then expressing helps it. But you can always bounce straight to, like, I want to visualize, like, breathe, Visualize. Like you can.

Connor Link [00:59:42]:
You can go wherever you want. But following the wheel helps.

Theresa Hubbard [00:59:46]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [00:59:46]:
And it kind of creates, like, an ease or, like, almost. You can, like, sink, you know, each. Each wheel you can sink until you're like, oh, okay, me. Cool.

Walker Bird [01:00:01]:
So you get. It gets people in this space where they can then do the work with you on identifying the core values and next steps.

Connor Link [01:00:09]:
Yeah, it. Yeah, it helps them get a sense of, like, what's there. Yeah. Because when exploring values too, what often will happen is we'll be able to talk about, like, you know, what's been blocking those or. And that, that like, awareness and that practice helps helps kind of sift through it because a lot of times sharing new information, like, you know, you want to protect it or like judgment will come up around it or so it just, it helps them like soften that piece, like that protective piece and just be in the sharing of like, what's there.

Walker Bird [01:00:50]:
Yeah. I mean, having gone through the process briefly with you this morning, you've got just this great insight and you're loving kindness just shines through the whole process and it's powerful work that you're doing. So if, And I know you're in process of getting it set up, but if people want to find out more about you, what can they do?

Connor Link [01:01:11]:
Yeah. So makemeaning.net is my website right now in this podcast. And I'm getting myself out there and like sharing and all, like, this will be a great way for people to learn about me and about what I'm doing.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:27]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [01:01:27]:
So my website right now, and then after the journal's like fully finished and. And that stuff is ready to go, then that'll be released. And I, I want to make some courses around both the brave, that methodology, but also helping people through the value aspect of it and then even doing like recording some walkthroughs of doing values with somebody.

Theresa Hubbard [01:01:56]:
Oh, yeah.

Walker Bird [01:01:56]:
Well, you'll do coaching too, right?

Connor Link [01:01:58]:
Yep.

Walker Bird [01:01:59]:
And you already do, but you'll be offering that specifically with the Brave process.

Connor Link [01:02:03]:
Exactly. Yeah. And the coaching I do, you know, if. If you're looking for, if you're wanting to connect more with yourself, if you like alignment, you know, some people may not have context for that, but like, if you feel like sometimes people like, say something's missing or like you just are like, man, I. I want to like, even know what is interesting to me. I feel like that's. That's what I'm. That's what I can help do, is just like give you space to explore, like, what's there for you and what you want to create, what you need, you know, like those questions that like, we all have.

Connor Link [01:02:52]:
But yeah, and like body work is something that we can explore. Obviously the value work, exploring your personality, exploring blocks around like what you have been creating, that maybe doesn't feel good.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:07]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [01:03:08]:
And what that points to is like it's out of alignment and then that the values can help with that. So it kind of all connects together. But I just, overall, I just create a loving space for people to show up and then we can Explore what's there.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:28]:
Well, we're excited for you.

Walker Bird [01:03:30]:
Here we are.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:31]:
Join us. Yeah. You bring a lot of wisdom and.

Walker Bird [01:03:34]:
It'S going to be powerful stuff. I'm really looking forward, forward to it. And we've done a lot of different work across the country and we're very impressed.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:45]:
Thank you. Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:03:46]:
You just got this powerful heart space that.

Theresa Hubbard [01:03:49]:
Yes. So just to be clear, Connor's joining us for the retreat March 20th through 23rd. And so he'll be the whole time. He will be there.

Connor Link [01:04:03]:
I was like, I want to do it too.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:05]:
Correct. He's gonna be there the whole time as a participant, but then he's also going to be a guest facilitator walking us through the process so that as part of the retreat when people leave on Sunday, they have a plan in place and so kind of like a.

Connor Link [01:04:22]:
Context to explore and like open.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:25]:
Yeah.

Connor Link [01:04:26]:
Yeah.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:26]:
So thank you, Connor.

Walker Bird [01:04:27]:
Thanks, Connor.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:28]:
Yeah. And thank you for today. It was great. Yeah. Always nice to spend time with you.

Connor Link [01:04:32]:
Thanks guys.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:33]:
Yeah.

Walker Bird [01:04:34]:
We are so excited about sharing with you our new retreat Becoming unshakable. From self doubt to daring.

Theresa Hubbard [01:04:44]:
We love doing retreats. It's a lot of fun. We really enjoy that group in person process. Everything that Walker and I create is something that we do with a lot of intention. Every retreat we do as a new retreat. We don't repeat retreats and so it's always an adventure for us in creating the next one based off where he and I are in our own personal growth journey.

Walker Bird [01:05:10]:
Yeah. We look forward to holding space for you.

Theresa Hubbard [01:05:13]:
Yeah. We hope you'll consider joining us. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more compassionate every day.

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