Becoming Unshakeable: From Self Doubt to Daring
Theresa Hubbard and Walker BirdIn this episode of My Inner Knowing, co-hosts Theresa Hubbard and Walker Bird invite you to explore what it truly means to become unshakeable, a theme inspired by their upcoming wellness retreat in Missouri this March. This heartfelt conversation unpacks the real meaning of courage, shifting away from ego-driven daring to embracing boldness grounded in self-awareness and integrity.
Theresa and Walker weave in personal stories—whether the journey of self-advocacy during surgery or experiences in the courtroom—to illustrate how being unshakeable isn’t about being fearless but about showing up fully, even in the face of uncertainty.
Key topics they explore include: ~ Authentic daring versus reckless or performative bravery ~ The quiet courage it takes to ask for help ~ Staying grounded and aligned in brave choices ~ Practicing resilience and confidence through consistent, intentional effort ~ How self-worth shapes our ability to take daring steps ~ Prioritizing the process over the outcome in moments of challenge
This episode reflects the spirit of My Inner Knowing: deeply personal, profoundly inspiring, and rooted in the belief that unshakeable strength comes from within.
Are you ready to embrace your own unshakeable journey? Discover how you can join Theresa and Walker at their transformative wellness retreat in Missouri this March: My Inner Knowing Retreats.
Tune in for an uplifting, real, and empowering discussion about courage, connection, and finding your unshakeable self.
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Episode Transcript
My Inner Knowing empowering you to find your compass for the journey. We are dedicated to supporting you to rediscover and trust your natural ability to navigate life. Each day by sharing insight and experience through the lens of two professional communicators and their guests, we intend to prompt internal inquiry that supports all those willing to explore a unique path.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:32]:
Well, hello.
Walker Bird [00:00:35]:
Hello.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:36]:
How are you? Great. Yeah. Why are you great?
Walker Bird [00:00:41]:
Well, you tell me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:43]:
Nope.
Walker Bird [00:00:48]:
No. It's one of those nights. I guess I'm getting over being sick.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:52]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:00:52]:
But I feel pretty good. Just happy to be here with you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:55]:
Yeah. Thanks. Me too.
Walker Bird [00:00:57]:
It's always a highlight.
Theresa Hubbard [00:00:59]:
Yeah. Nice to create the space for these conversations.
Walker Bird [00:01:04]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:05]:
Yeah. So today we're going to talk about Becoming Unshakeable, which is the name of our retreat that's coming up March 20th through 23rd. And the retreat will be about pushing ourselves into safe but uncomfortable situations where we really can see more clearly how we get in our own way. And I know you're really excited.
Walker Bird [00:01:51]:
I am.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:52]:
You have thought of many activities that we can do.
Walker Bird [00:01:57]:
Yes.
Theresa Hubbard [00:01:58]:
To really help us find more groundedness and, I don't know, steadfastness in our.
Walker Bird [00:02:07]:
Body, Willingness to risk.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:14]:
Yeah. Tell me more. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:02:18]:
Well, it's just the idea came to me just from all the years I've spent as a trial lawyer. You know, I've been at it. It will be 30 years this September.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:27]:
Wow.
Walker Bird [00:02:29]:
And public speaking is one of the great fears that people have, and that's ultimately what I do.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:37]:
Sure, sure.
Walker Bird [00:02:38]:
And it. You have to become unshakeable. Becoming unshakeable does not mean that you don't have fear.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:48]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:02:49]:
Or you don't have some shakes, too. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:02:52]:
Yeah. Where do you feel like you are on your journey of becoming unshakeable in that arena?
Walker Bird [00:02:58]:
I am pretty unshakeable, but not completely.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:02]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:03:02]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:03]:
Okay. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:03:03]:
And that's okay. Where I am is I've accepted the. The fear and some of the doubt, but I've learned how to control it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:17]:
Okay.
Walker Bird [00:03:17]:
And to use it, because it provides energy. For sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:21]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:03:23]:
And it provides power when you're telling your truth. So I've gone through a lot of training. You know, I do continuing education all the time. I go to seminars across the country, and there's just so much of it that you're standing up in front of groups of strangers and presenting a portion of a case or having people act like they're jurors to practice or standing in front of real juries and doing it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:03:52]:
And you've been to one.
Theresa Hubbard [00:03:53]:
I have.
Walker Bird [00:03:54]:
So it's not about being a lawyer, but it is about being in those sorts of situations. And how do you handle the initial reaction of freeze and proceed anyway?
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:11]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:11]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:12]:
Well, outside of the courtroom, what would you imagine some of those situations to be?
Walker Bird [00:04:20]:
Choose any difficulty in life. Hard conversations with loved ones, children, spouses, friends, co workers, bosses.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:29]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:31]:
No different, really. Not that hurdle of can I stand up for what I believe is right? Can I use my voice? Do I trust enough in just the process.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:51]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:04:51]:
That. That even if I don't get what I want.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:56]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:04:57]:
Even if I fall flat.
Theresa Hubbard [00:04:59]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:04:59]:
Or the answer is no, you know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:04]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:05:04]:
I'll do it anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:05]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:05:06]:
Because what else is there?
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:08]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:05:09]:
Really. And. And it's not as if I always am at that point. I still. With all that experience and all the rest, there's still times that I hesitate, but I think that I would guess when it comes to the end of my days, the regrets will be the times that I did not push through.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:30]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:05:31]:
Yeah. Well, I hope maybe not many, because I've pushed through a lot.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:37]:
Yeah. Well. And I hope, too, that grace for yourself is developed enough that you can also know that you were doing the best that you could.
Walker Bird [00:05:49]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:49]:
At that time.
Walker Bird [00:05:50]:
I think it's a really good point, babe. You know, grace for yourself is probably, now that you say it, a part of that process.
Theresa Hubbard [00:05:58]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:05:59]:
If you are busy beating yourself up for everything that you did imperfectly when you made the attempt.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:05]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:06:06]:
Whether in the courtroom or in the boardroom or over the lunch table or over the dinner table or wherever it is, you know, recognizing I am human and I am here to learn, and it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things how well I did it. I think what matters is that I did, and if I didn't, then I'll try again tomorrow.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. To me, I think about, as we build any skill, it doesn't matter what area of our life it's in. Practice is all we can do. Right.
Walker Bird [00:06:50]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:06:51]:
It's always an experiment. It's always practice. Hopefully we're doing it with some thought, in intention so that we can learn from the experience, but the more that we risk stepping in, even if, you know, the things that we try are, I don't know, less significant in our life as we're practicing, but we're just practicing. Yeah. What are you thinking when I say that?
Walker Bird [00:07:25]:
Oh, that it's all significant and all not significant all at the same time.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:34]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:07:35]:
Yeah. But I do think you know, it's. It's like stepping over that threshold in even the. The little ways that you're mentioning. And maybe you give us a couple of examples. But if you can you start down the path doing that, then you. You can step in the bigger ways when they present themselves.
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:54]:
Sure.
Walker Bird [00:07:55]:
What do you think?
Theresa Hubbard [00:07:57]:
Oh, well, there's a lot of different things that come to mind. I'm thinking of a particular example, and I'm trying to think about what's the best way to teach about it. I think the process of learning to trust ourselves requires movement on our part. Right. Like we have to step in and try things or how do we build that. Right. And ultimately, that's what this is all about, everything that we're doing, learning to trust ourselves, our inner knowing. And so I think if we can go back and remember that as children, very few of us were raised in such a way that we were taught to be curious with ourselves, to be aware of our whole experience, to learn to value things in ways that were helpful to us instead of increasing fear or doubt or.
Theresa Hubbard [00:09:23]:
And so I think about, you know, when does self doubt come up for us? When do we recognize that it's there, that it's present, that we don't trust ourself? It is something I've done a lot of work on as part of developing my inner knowing, trusting myself. And while I feel like I've made a lot of progress, it's not that I don't still struggle with. Am I. Am I being selfish? Am I entitled? Am I dramatic? Am I wrong? Am I coming from ego? Is it coming from my little girl? I mean, there's a lot of conversation I can have in there about it. So I think about this situation that I'm in right now, and I may have said it like this before, I don't remember, but I am for sure in a, you know, a justice phase of my life that I don't think is going away. But, you know, like, it was there when I was little. And then I think that. I don't think.
Theresa Hubbard [00:11:04]:
I know that. There was a lot of feedback that I got about having a voice that was not helpful and really being trained to not trust myself. So I've been working on that for over 20 years, trying to learn myself again. And so in that, you know, process, when I have an experience of, you know, injustice, it takes me a while, you know, to get clear. I'm very intentional and thoughtful about pulling information and, you know, run, you know, getting feedback by people who might be experts in a particular field, but always still trusting myself. And so when I think about this particular situation, you know, I've engaged several professionals to give me guidance. And what I recognize is that their way of walking in the world is very different than mine. And for me, like, I'm very clear on what is happening that is harmful to other people.
Theresa Hubbard [00:12:45]:
And I mean, to me, abusive, actually. And while the professionals that I engaged for guidance have taught me a lot, I am very aware that I am more unshakeable than they are, regardless of their training, regardless of their experience, that I am clear about what I'm doing. And. But there are moments where then I doubt, and then I ask myself, why are you doubting yourself? Oh, because maybe they'll change their mind about who you are. Maybe they'll decide that you are dramatic. Maybe they'll decide that you're entitled, even though what you're asking for is really what is owed to you, based off contracts, documents. Right. But that I should just, like, don't make a big deal out of that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:10]:
You sure you want to make sure that you want the money you're entitled to? Are you sure that you do? And I think, wow, really? That, you know, reinforcement of the message, you know, that you're asking for too much, even if. Even if it is literally owed to you. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't last long anymore.
Walker Bird [00:14:45]:
Sure. What do you think brought about the change for you to go from being in a doubting space and deciding and. And allowing the doubt to rule the day and being daring?
Theresa Hubbard [00:14:57]:
Hmm. I think a lot of practice. I do. I think it's been a lot of practice asking for things, you know, even. I mean, I think about even when you were in the hospital, you know, last month, and there was something that you needed. And. Sure. I don't know if 10, 15, 20 years ago, I would have, you know, asked for what was needed.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:35]:
So I don't know. I'm going to say, well, because I did do it really well. You did.
Walker Bird [00:15:43]:
They loved you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:15:46]:
But practice, just willing to continue practicing, asking for help. And so I think when I didn't ask for help, how do I ever build confidence? Because then I'm really coming from a place of fear and lack. Right. I'm not coming from a place of any level of belief that I can get my need met. Yeah. Asking for help. You know, I think about, oh, you know, I for sure have worked on. I can't trust anyone to take care of things.
Walker Bird [00:16:41]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:42]:
Yeah. And it's not like it's completely fixed.
Walker Bird [00:16:47]:
Well, there's the rub with what you were just describing, which is doubters, right?
Theresa Hubbard [00:16:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a journey a little bit by little bit. I don't think in this area, there's been like some big, huge change other than I do remember. I don't know how long it was ago, 12 years ago, maybe 10 years ago, I don't remember. But we had a really, like. We had a micro burst in Liberty and part of my building's roof was blown off as part of that process. And I was out of state when the police called to tell me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:17:40]:
And I remember just packing up and driving back to Missouri and getting here and realizing that Linda, who was my office manager at the time, had it under control and I didn't need to come back. And I was like, oh, I can trust somebody to take care of something big and significant, you know, and impacted not, just, you know, myself, but all these other people, you know, that are in the building. That, for me, was a big awareness. But I don't think that was the change. It was just the awareness that the change was happening that I had started risking trusting. But I do think that it mattered who I was asking to. I think that it was. It is important that we're not asking to get our needs met from someone who has repeatedly shown us that they won't.
Theresa Hubbard [00:18:51]:
And so going back to the patterns versus exceptions piece, you know, looking for patterns of behavior, is this person in relationship with me? Is it really reciprocal, or am I asking them because I don't get my needs met and I want to try again? And I don't mean, like, without conversation. I mean, like testing is what I mean. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:19:22]:
Tell me more about that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:23]:
Oh, testing. Well, you know, I don't think.
Walker Bird [00:19:33]:
Nothing'S coming to mind. You've tested me, but I'm interested. Maybe I didn't know it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:40]:
Maybe I just think we often are testing people to see if they'll respond to a need instead of having direct conversation with them about what our need is.
Walker Bird [00:19:55]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:19:57]:
What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:19:58]:
Oh, I just thought that's a whole other can of worms about, you know, partner or spouse to spouse communication.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:06]:
Sure. Parent, child, sibling, friend. Right.
Walker Bird [00:20:11]:
Well, they should know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:14]:
Yeah. If they really love me, they'd know. Yeah. They would know. Yeah. What do you think?
Walker Bird [00:20:20]:
Tell me more about this process of asking for help. Because I think that there's a concept for some people that being daring means that you're doing it all yourself. And I think what you're saying is being daring can also mean learning to that you are worthy to ask for help.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:44]:
Absolutely.
Walker Bird [00:20:45]:
Tell me more about that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:20:46]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think about even, you know, our relationship and you know. Well, there's a saying that you have about oxen and I don't ever remember exactly, but go ahead and say it.
Walker Bird [00:21:06]:
It's from Dave Ramsey.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:08]:
Okay.
Walker Bird [00:21:09]:
Okay. The financial.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:11]:
Okay.
Walker Bird [00:21:12]:
Guru.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:13]:
It may be from somebody else before him.
Walker Bird [00:21:15]:
Yeah. But knows. I mean, but that's where you took it from. That's where I listen to it the first time, is that, you know, a single ox can pull 800 pounds, but two oxen together can pull something like 3200 pounds.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:29]:
Okay.
Walker Bird [00:21:30]:
So not just double.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:32]:
Gotcha. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:21:34]:
Anyway.
Theresa Hubbard [00:21:35]:
Yeah. So for me, when I think about how much I could accomplish when I was doing it on my own versus how much I can accomplish having learned how to ask people for help and people. And again, I don't just mean anybody. I mean, you know, people I've learned will respond. People I've learned are engaged, are curious, are putting forth effort. And so I'm much more intentional about who I'm asking help from. Again, I think we're often asking for help from people that we are not going to get our needs met from.
Walker Bird [00:22:29]:
Yeah. Are you finished with that? What's coming to mind, though, is I'm distinguishing between the people who. We have a pattern. You know, there's pattern that they're not going to meet our needs, but we keep thinking they might and being willing to risk asking somebody that you have no idea and no particular relationship with if they will help you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:54]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:22:55]:
Guess what?
Theresa Hubbard [00:22:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. I remember years ago, I was working with someone and they were trying to see parts of themselves they couldn't see. And they had recently gone on retreat. And I said, what do you think about reaching out to some of the people that were on retreat and asking them how they experienced you? And she was like, what? And I said, you know, you can just say, you know, pick a few people and just say, you know, these are things I'm really trying to understand about myself. I really want to see myself more clearly. And I really, truly do want your feedback. I don't want you to just tell me, oh, you were great or whatever.
Theresa Hubbard [00:23:51]:
Like, I really am trying to grow. Yeah. And she did, right.
Walker Bird [00:24:00]:
Was she terrified?
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:01]:
I think so. But she did anyway. She was doing it. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:06]:
And yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:08]:
Yeah. Oh, no doubt. It taught her a lot about herself. Yeah. Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:24:21]:
Oh, just that the daring piece is. Is in the doing regardless. And I don't this turned into how to ask for help, which is fascinating, but it's. I. I think you're making some really important points about it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:24:40]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:24:40]:
And it does take daring to ask even those that you do have relationship with. At least it has been for me. I guess I shouldn't speak for everybody out there, but I'm not that uncommon. And then to step beyond that, to ask somebody that you don't know, that you don't have a clue or relationship with, that's a lot of daring. But what is strange is sometimes it really works.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:11]:
Oh, absolutely. What are you thinking when you say that? I mean, something came to mind. But what are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:25:21]:
I'm. Well, I'm thinking about a book that I just listened to where somebody was giving an example where Steve Jobs was a teenager. I think it was 15, and he called up some executive in the industry just out of the blue and somehow.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:36]:
Got through easier 50 years ago. But go ahead, go ahead.
Walker Bird [00:25:42]:
You know, I have this idea. I was wondering if you could help me. Blah, blah, blah. And it was like, absolutely. And so, you know, then he was off to the races. But I could be misquoting it, but it was. It was like that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:25:54]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:25:56]:
And I just thought, how bold. I wish that I'd been that bold at 15, you know, or even now. Yeah, I am. And it's. You know, I think it happens in categories, too. It's easy now. Well, easy. Pretty easy as a trial lawyer, but in different arenas.
Walker Bird [00:26:14]:
You know, when I have a difficult conversation, even with you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:17]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:17]:
There's still more hesitation, but I'll do it, you know. But it does take some woof.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:24]:
You know, but are asking family members for help without feeling like you have to sacrifice to get their help? Kind of like the story was telling about my brother asking for that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:39]:
Oh, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:26:40]:
That antiquity that my dad had, you know, he thought he'd have to trade me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:26:45]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:26:46]:
And, you know, I thought, gosh, you know, brother, you don't have to give up something. But I can put myself in the reverse and think, well, when I ask a sibling. Sibling for help even, sometimes I have that same thought. And I don't know if that's just deeply ingrained in our family, but probably many others, too.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:05]:
Yeah, I would guess so.
Walker Bird [00:27:08]:
Yeah. I mean, part of it comes back to worthiness, doesn't it?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:11]:
Oh, absolutely.
Walker Bird [00:27:13]:
Do you think you have to have worthiness to be daring? I'm throwing the big ones at you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:23]:
Well, I think there has to be. Well, you know, I think that's tricky because being Daring and looking daring are not the same thing.
Walker Bird [00:27:43]:
Yeah. Or feeling daring.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:46]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:27:47]:
It's true.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:47]:
Yeah. What are you thinking?
Walker Bird [00:27:50]:
Well, I was thinking about the podcast we did where I was telling about my trial experience.
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:54]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:27:54]:
Did I feel daring?
Theresa Hubbard [00:27:56]:
No.
Walker Bird [00:27:59]:
I wanted to run away. Run down the hall screaming, they're liars. They're liars. But I did it anyway. Stepped into the breach.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:09]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:28:11]:
Same could be said with having a hard conversation with family member.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:15]:
Mm. Yeah. Well, to me, it's interesting to think about. You know, I think about where my mind goes, really, is back to when we were teenagers and we would do something like. Oh. Like I was racing. I liked to race when I drove when I was a teenager. I know.
Theresa Hubbard [00:28:55]:
And I.
Walker Bird [00:28:59]:
How?
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:00]:
I. I would say I was acting daring, but I was really insecure. I was looking for belonging. Absolutely. There was ego at play. I was trying to prove that I was a better driver than all the boys because I was the only girl that was racing. I was trying, you know, trying to. I don't remember what some of the other cars were, but they were not a Chevy Spectrum, which was what I was trying.
Walker Bird [00:29:48]:
All four cylinders.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:53]:
You know, versus, like, a Chevy Nova, you know, like, you.
Walker Bird [00:29:56]:
Didn'T beat them off the line, that's for sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:29:58]:
No, but there was. There was a part of me that had a lot to prove.
Walker Bird [00:30:06]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:07]:
And I think it looked brave, but it was really just insecurity and thoughtless and reactive, and, I mean, it wasn't coming from a place of groundedness.
Walker Bird [00:30:19]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:30:21]:
I remember, you know, I had a friend in the car, and we were driving somewhere, and it was very curvy, and I, you know, was showing off, you know, and it was daring, but it wasn't, you know, wasn't brave. Just, you know, ego. So. And ran the car off the road, and I think, you know, either bent something that was not good, you know, and we didn't have a lot of money, so I think that can look daring. It wasn't. Not in how I view daring.
Walker Bird [00:30:58]:
Fascinating now.
Theresa Hubbard [00:31:00]:
Yeah. What do you.
Walker Bird [00:31:01]:
Well, because I was looking at it from the other side, which is it can look like fear when it's really daring, and it can look like daring when it's really ego or fear.
Theresa Hubbard [00:31:13]:
Well, fear of being abandoned, fear of not being accepted, fear of not being good enough. I think a lot of that went into looking daring, but I wasn't really brave. It was really dangerous.
Walker Bird [00:31:31]:
So what's the distinguishing factor? Groundedness.
Theresa Hubbard [00:31:44]:
At this point in my life, when I think about being daring, I think I recognize I'm afraid I put effort into being grounded. I ask myself, what do I really want? I ask myself, is this integris for me? Am I going to grow from this and then doing it anyway, even if I'm afraid? That's what daring is to me now at this point in my life. What do you.
Walker Bird [00:32:47]:
Oh, just the wisdom. The daring isn't necessarily recklessness. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:32:57]:
Yeah. I think that looks like daring.
Walker Bird [00:33:03]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:05]:
Yeah. Because if I think about the example that you gave earlier about, you know, in the courtroom when that happened with the video, you may not have felt daring, but you were.
Walker Bird [00:33:19]:
Oh, I was terrified. But I. But I did go through the process similar to what you're discussing. It wasn't that. It wasn't that detailed, but you did have to breathe. I've recognized what was happening. I grounded and I made an intentional choice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:36]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:33:37]:
We're either going to lose or I'm going to do this and risk it. All.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:42]:
Right, Right. And integrity. Right. Integrity.
Walker Bird [00:33:47]:
Right. Because if I don't.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:48]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:33:49]:
There's no other choice other than I just give up.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:51]:
Yeah. What. What do I really want?
Walker Bird [00:33:54]:
Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:33:54]:
What do I really want? Yeah, yeah. And I would say maybe even a willingness to risk being abandoned.
Walker Bird [00:34:03]:
Oh, without a doubt.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:05]:
Right. A willingness to risk being embarrassed.
Walker Bird [00:34:10]:
Right. And so that. Then that was what was interesting about our two points of view. And I don't think I got to the point very well, but it's like you can have all of those things going on and be daring, and in the doing, you may not look, you know, who knows what I look like? Maybe I look terrified, you know, at the very start.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:36]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:34:39]:
And so that's. It's just interesting because daring, I think in the context that we're putting, it has different phases.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:47]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Walker Bird [00:34:49]:
I think it's the intentional action.
Theresa Hubbard [00:34:55]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:34:55]:
Intentional with integrity. Making choices to move the energy.
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:06]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:35:07]:
Something you're always talking about. Keep moving. Keep moving.
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:13]:
Yeah. It's interesting as we're talking because I'm thinking, oh, there's that shit. Shame piece. That comes back up again, too.
Walker Bird [00:35:21]:
Tell me more.
Theresa Hubbard [00:35:21]:
Oh, just, you know, thinking about how it can be really difficult for us to step into becoming unshakeable because we feel like there's something wrong with us inherently wrong with us.
Walker Bird [00:35:43]:
Yeah. Give us some examples. What have you seen or what have you personally experienced?
Theresa Hubbard [00:36:05]:
You know, I think about that situation with the surgeon that didn't do my hernia repair very well, and somehow me having a voice about that made me ridiculous. The response was an intent. The response by I don't know what you would call it. The people in power was. I can't believe that you're even saying anything. You know, it was very much, you know, a shame, you know, based response. Right. We're going to put you in your place.
Theresa Hubbard [00:37:09]:
We're going to attempt to make you feel like you are not worthy, that you should be grateful for whatever you got. And really having to work through the emotion that came up, you know, during that process and that awareness of, I didn't do anything wrong, but it's hard to get there. Can be hard to get there.
Walker Bird [00:37:48]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:37:49]:
I didn't do anything wrong.
Walker Bird [00:37:53]:
Victimizing the victim, however, that's the system. But what's coming to mind for me, with a lot of pride and pleasure for you, was when you went in to have the revision surgery.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:15]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:38:15]:
I can still see you. I can still see you with the cap on all that stuff ready to go. They're about to take you out of the room. And.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:24]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:38:24]:
The. The surgeon who. You've had a long conversation about what happened during the bad surgery.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:31]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:38:32]:
All those things comes in. That was daring, what you did.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:37]:
Yes.
Walker Bird [00:38:38]:
So tell us.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:39]:
What.
Walker Bird [00:38:39]:
If you care to share. Do you care to share?
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:41]:
Sure, I can share.
Walker Bird [00:38:42]:
I'm just. It's like there's this golden light around you when I think about it. Seriously? Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:47]:
Thank you.
Walker Bird [00:38:48]:
No, it's really nice.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:49]:
Yeah. Who can make me emotional?
Walker Bird [00:38:51]:
Yeah. It was hard.
Theresa Hubbard [00:38:53]:
So what I am clear about in regards to, like, the medical system and what I need from it, my medical advocacy is, like, really clear. I've had lots of practice, and so I knew what I needed from the surgeon and the team. And I've learned that I need the surgeon or the doctor. In this case, it was a surgeon. I mean, a doctor. But I mean, as a doctor, as opposed to a doctor visit. What I needed from the surgeon was for him to know who I am, for him to see me as Theresa Hubbard, not surgery. Three on the list today.
Theresa Hubbard [00:40:04]:
Who needs a hernia repair and whatever else they did while they were in there. And so what I've learned to do is when the surgeon walks in, is to hold my hand out like this until they take it, and then they take it. And then I bring my hand closer to me, so they're now closer to me. And then I can say, what are we doing today? And then they tell me. And then if it's not what we had already talked about, then I can say, in this particular case, I was teary because what we had talked about was not what he told me we were going to do. And so I put my hand on his upper arm and I said, if you don't fix this today, I have to do this again. Just like that. And I had prepared a list of things that I wanted from them.
Theresa Hubbard [00:41:29]:
I wanted them to understand that I had medical trauma. I wanted them to understand that I wake up sometimes during surgery. I wanted them to hold an intention when they were in there over, you know, a successful surgery, full healing for my body, being respectful to my body. And I gave a copy to everybody, which was very hard to do.
Walker Bird [00:42:09]:
Sure.
Theresa Hubbard [00:42:10]:
But I did.
Walker Bird [00:42:11]:
Did you have doubts when you were handing that out?
Theresa Hubbard [00:42:13]:
Of course. Of course.
Walker Bird [00:42:14]:
What doubts went through your mind?
Theresa Hubbard [00:42:15]:
Oh, that they'll think I was silly. That they would think I was being dramatic, that I don't know why she needs to tell us this. We know what we're doing, you know. Yeah, plenty. Yeah. I was very nervous.
Walker Bird [00:42:33]:
So how'd you go from doubt to daring?
Theresa Hubbard [00:42:38]:
You know, for me, at this point, it really is. I don't want to have regret that I said something or didn't say something, that I would then lay and wake in bed at night wishing that I had said it or not said it. And I've worked so much on doing it gently and compassionately and directly that if I didn't say it, I know that I would have regret. And I just don't want to lay in bed awake anymore. Like, I really don't want to be laying there thinking, I should have just said it. I don't want to. I want to. Even if it's uncomfortable.
Theresa Hubbard [00:43:23]:
I would much rather lay in bed and be grateful that I said it, even if they thought negatively of me. What?
Walker Bird [00:43:36]:
Just to go from one of your greatest traumas, you know, that space is one of your greatest traumas. And with what had happened and all the fear and the doubt and all of that, to working through the process, reading literature. What was the book that Nancy sent you? We'll have to list that.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:01]:
I think Preparing for Surgery is what it was called. I can't remember the lady's name, but we'll put it in the episode description.
Walker Bird [00:44:08]:
Yeah. Drastic improvement in outcomes when the surgical team recognizes that there's a human being on the table and sets an intention for their best.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:19]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:44:20]:
Outcome.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:20]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:44:21]:
Is the. That's the gist. There's a lot more to it.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:24]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:44:25]:
But anyway, I'm just extolling your virtues. That's huge for, you know, from self doubt to daring. Because you. I mean, just the whole History that you shared a different podcast with. Almost losing the baby and this case and all of those. The difficult births, everything.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:44]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:44:45]:
Leading to that point. And it's just like the phoenix to me, rising from the ashes and, you know. Anyway, thank you. I love you. You are fierce.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:57]:
Thank you.
Walker Bird [00:44:59]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:44:59]:
It's been a lot of practice, and.
Walker Bird [00:45:00]:
You could be fierce and daring, but still have doubts or fear, but you were intentional. You had integrity to yourself, to the process.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:11]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:45:13]:
And you took action. Grounded action.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:19]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:45:19]:
You could have been hysterical when the surgeon didn't respond the way you expected.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:24]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:45:26]:
Because of the preparation you had done and the work that you've done, you were able to put your hand on his shoulder and. And even through tears without it becoming drama.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:37]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:45:38]:
Tell him what you needed and he heard you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:40]:
He did. He did.
Walker Bird [00:45:42]:
And if you had done it a different way, I'm not sure he'd have been able to.
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:46]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:45:46]:
He just put that lady under, you know, where's the cocktail?
Theresa Hubbard [00:45:52]:
Right. Right. No, he did hear me.
Walker Bird [00:45:55]:
He did hear you. And he looked, you know, that eye contact was significant.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:00]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:46:02]:
And I think that is his. My take of that surgeon is that's he is more prone to be that way than most anyway. But it's still a good reminder.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:15]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:46:16]:
It's like. I don't know. It's just. It's so important. But it was brave and daring.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:26]:
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for showing lots of practice. Lots of practice.
Walker Bird [00:46:32]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:34]:
Yeah. And then. And I. I don't want it. I don't want it to come across like this is only for the big times. Right. I mean, again, it's the little times that help us get ready for the big time.
Walker Bird [00:46:47]:
Exactly.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:47]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:46:48]:
100%.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:49]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:46:49]:
And giving yourself, you know, kudos and credit for when. Anytime, no matter how small.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:55]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:46:56]:
Is how you build that resilience. Right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:46:58]:
Absolutely.
Walker Bird [00:46:59]:
Yeah.
Theresa Hubbard [00:47:00]:
Yeah, yeah. I think it's important work. Becoming unshakeable. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:47:20]:
But again, it's a journey like life.
Theresa Hubbard [00:47:25]:
Yeah. Just keep stepping in.
Walker Bird [00:47:28]:
That's right.
Theresa Hubbard [00:47:28]:
Just keep practicing. Yeah. Yeah. I think about, how do I recognize when I could be practicing? So, for example, can I increase my awareness enough that I recognize I want to ask for something, but I'm not? And even if I don't ask for it. Right. Then can I go through the process of asking myself, what do you really want? What's most important to you? Getting really clear, what am I afraid of? What's the worst thing that could happen? Why am I doing what I'm doing? Can we have that conversation with ourselves so that we can practice stepping into whatever as opposed to avoiding deflecting, freezing. What do I really want? What are you imagining?
Walker Bird [00:49:06]:
The difference between the act, the effort, and the outcome is what was coming to mind. What do I really want? And I'm going to do it regardless of the outcome.
Theresa Hubbard [00:49:22]:
Right.
Walker Bird [00:49:24]:
Give the universe that opportunity.
Theresa Hubbard [00:49:27]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:49:28]:
And learn.
Theresa Hubbard [00:49:31]:
Yeah. Reflective. Going back. Let's say we don't get our need met. You know, is there something there that I could have done differently or really it didn't matter?
Walker Bird [00:49:44]:
Was that what I really wanted?
Theresa Hubbard [00:49:46]:
Well, yeah. Is that what I really wanted? Right. And also, you know, if I didn't get my need met, what parts on me and what part do I have no control over? Because there's that too.
Walker Bird [00:50:03]:
And there's growth through all of that, potentially.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:07]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:50:08]:
I think, you know, and I've talked about it a lot in the podcast series of just focusing on the process versus the outcome. And it's by. It's not that I don't want it, but by not measuring everything based on outcome, it frees me.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:28]:
Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:50:29]:
To unfreeze.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:31]:
Yes. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:50:34]:
More often.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. Just step in. Just do it. Yeah. Learning will come. Yeah. If we're intentional.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:44]:
Thoughtful. If we want more awareness is what I mean. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:50:52]:
Well, this went a whole bunch of different paths that I didn't anticipate, but I really enjoyed it, as always.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:57]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Walker Bird [00:50:58]:
I love you.
Theresa Hubbard [00:50:59]:
I love you too. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited to explore life with you. We encourage curiosity, self growth and we strive to be more, more compassionate every day.